A. undulatus, plant contest, put all questions,comments, pictures in here

[kennyman]

Ahhh the lovely pale green tinged with brown. Did I cook my specimen by leaving it in the bag overnight or does this plant look a paler yellow/green in your tank too?

It will be interesting to see how it does in a Walstad type tank. The literature on the plant seems to suggest it will do fine, but we shall see 

How much light is yours under babble or is that a "dont ask because if I told you I'd have to kill you" question 

[babblefish1960]

How much light is yours under babble or is that a "dont ask because if I told you I'd have to kill you" question 

It is a tricky question indeed, I can't tell you as it is now under guard by the killer cats tending to it.

lol kennyman, I was thinking the same pale and off color , almost like a Canadian showing up in Florida in March. Very ruff ruff , sorry Babble for the lack of grammer

Oooh! My sensibilities have been struck a brutal blow, I shall let this one pass sassafras, but wow, that is worse than most of my sentences.

I think the joy of the contest is in the discovering how many actually survived more than thrived.  The month of May should be quite telling.

[normc]

The original leaves in my tank look pale but the new leaves it is putting out are darker.

[succinctfish]

I just planted mine.    It's been floating in the tank since the meeting.  Already there is a blasted pond snail crawling on it.  It's in my tank plagued with filamentous algae and tenanted by Genghis, my flagtail porthole catfish and his flagtail corydoras gang, so we'll see how it survives.  I'm sure I'll be planting it again tomorrow after Genghis digs it up tonight.


Babble's is under natural light at the moment...in the bag...still in the car.   

[dan2x38]

Mine is doing OK to date... had to prune a couple leaves & roots... it stayed in the bag for 2 days... colour seems fine too...

Latios has his in a 10 gallon, his WMM tank. His has a leave dieing off no real colour yet. Tonight I showed him how to insert a Flourish Tab. He added some leaf Zone too. He's learning about macro & micro nutrients... he does surprise me how quickly he's learning... I pass on what takes me hours, days, or even weeks and he absurbs it in minutes... 

[kennyman]

Mine is doing OK to date... had to prune a couple leaves & roots... it stayed in the bag for 2 days... colour seems fine too...

You guys had roots?   

It is amazing how fast this thing is putting out new leaves! I guess the stored carbs in the bulb will get them all going after transport and whatnot. Very cool plant all in all.

[Nerine]

mine is in my 75 with java moss...no fish

most of the leaves are dead, I need to lop them off. but a few new dark green ones are poking through! whew! I was worried it was totally dead!!! it wasn't doing well when I got it, so hoping it will spring back and flourish!

[Kats]

Mine is in the 46G and it is the weirdest thing I have ever owned (well OK, I've never, until 2 weeks ago, owned water plants but....) it has this huge long stem that has grown out of the middle of it and it is now almost 2feet high...  Is that normal?

Here is a pic

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[BigDaddy]

That is the way the plant propagates.  It will eventually create other plants.  Keep them and bring them in at year end... more plants means you did a good job growing it!

[Kats]

Hey... that thing grows and grows but there are no new plant, I swear, the stem is almost as long as my tank now and it has a little tip with some sort of buds on it...  What a weird plant! 

How does it propagate?  Should I expect it to drop it's little buds all over the tank or do I have to do something to it?

[washefuzzy]

My plant is in a 10 gal with a 1/4" of gravel. But it seems to be surviving and getting longer than my tank is tall. The tank is erupting with endlers who I guess are doing a good job at fertilizing the the plant. 

[BigDaddy]

Okay well... turns out the plant is NOT A. undulatus.  I have, and other members also have, flowering stalks coming off the plant.  Given that Kasselmann says that inflorescence are rare, we can pretty much loose the label of A. undulatus.

The plant definitely looks to be a cross of A. crispus (of which there are many).  I am guessing from the growth of mine that it could be crispus x rigidifolius based on some pics I have of flowers of that cross.  I could very easily be totally off though

[Aquaviewer]

Okay well... turns out the plant is NOT A. undulatus.  I have, and other members also have, flowering stalks coming off the plant.  Given that Kasselmann says that inflorescence are rare, we can pretty much loose the label of A. undulatus.

The plant definitely looks to be a cross of A. crispus (of which there are many).  I am guessing from the growth of mine that it could be crispus x rigidifolius based on some pics I have of flowers of that cross.  I could very easily be totally off though

Hmmm, interesting.  I was wondering about that as I've been watching the flower stock extend about 4 feet.  Nice flower though.  I'm still working on getting a better exposure, but here is a shot of mine.



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[Nerine]

Interesting!!
I will post a photo of mine

[dan2x38]

I've been looking around and online have seen several sites showing A. undulatus with the flowering crawler. Here is at least one link for Aponogeton undulatus. The discription says it has those runners.

Here is another link saying it sends out these flowering runners. It also says it does reach a dorminate stage.

http://www.thatpetplace.com/pet/prod/198772/product.web?utm_source=googlebase&utm_medium=cpc&utm_term=198772

[jetstream]

According to Karen, the reason Apon. send out flowering runners is either under stress or coming out from dorminate stage. She mentioned that when she saw my other Apon plant's flower.

[dan2x38]

Mine has darker leaves than Latios' mind you his is a 10g no CO2 a little ferts once a week. I also have no runners on mine he does. The leaves are almost 2' long on  mine. I see no real sign of a runner yet. Does look like another leave or 2 are coming out.

[BigDaddy]

I've been looking around and online have seen several sites showing A. undulatus with the flowering crawler. Here is at least one link for Aponogeton undulatus. The discription says it has those runners.

Here is another link saying it sends out these flowering runners. It also says it does reach a dorminate stage.

http://www.thatpetplace.com/pet/prod/198772/product.web?utm_source=googlebase&utm_medium=cpc&utm_term=198772

I don't really give a lot of credence to online stores descriptions.

Karen Randall and Christel Kasselmann hold much more weight with me, and both of them specifically mention how A. undulatus propagates vegetatively through adventitious plantlets.

I know have three stalks on this plant, and none of them have any plantlets, only a spike that flowers when it reaches air.

[dan2x38]

So what about the contest? Mine seems different no flowering runners going to the top.

[Nerine]

Mine is only about 3 inches tall
but it's doing well!! I forgot to post pics! oops

[Fishnut]

Here's mine.  I was concerned about it for a while, but there have been quite a few leaves on it and it also has a stalk soaring to the surface.  It hasn't flowered yet, but it just reached the surface today.  I decided to leave a couple of the origional leaves on it so the plant wouldn't go into complete shock, but I think it's coming around.

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[dan2x38]

Is this contest still on?

[babblefish1960]

Is this contest still on?

Are you serious?   The contest plants are brought to the May meeting and voted on, so I cannot for the life of me imagine why the contest would not still be on.

[Nerine]

Patience!! It's not May yet! Don't be wishing for spring too soon

[dan2x38]

Are you serious?   The contest plants are brought to the May meeting and voted on, so I cannot for the life of me imagine why the contest would not still be on.

Of course I am serious, "Did I make a typo?" LMAO No has the same plant, mine is different!

[succinctfish]

There may be some variations, but they are all aponogeton, so they can be judged accordingly

[dan2x38]

Thanks I was curious a lot of different talk about this plant!

[BigDaddy]

What makes you think your plant isn't the same as the one the rest of us have Dan?

[dan2x38]

I guess I'll have to post a pic. Mine has almost 2 ft. leaves with a bronze colouring with green & no center shout. More leaves are coming out. Nathan's is like others that have been described and posted pics of. His has greenish leaves & the center shout is present. Does anyone elses look like mine? No matter because I like it and it is growing quite well for me. Nice plant!

[Aquaviewer]

I collected some pollen off the flower from another members plant and crossed it with mine.  A couple of rows of seed have developed so far.  Once they mature, I'll plant some to see if I can get any to sprout.

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[dan2x38]

I collected some pollen off the flower from another members plant and crossed it with mine.  A couple of rows of seed have developed so far.  Once they mature, I'll plant some to see if I can get any to sprout.

Very KEWL can't wait to hear more about that project... nice job!

[BigDaddy]

I did the same thing.. but with the one plant.  I have 3 shoots coming up from mine now.

[Lucie]

Dan, don,t get discouraged, the flowering stem only appeared 2 days ago on mine... but the thin stem is already 24" long...
The leaves on my plant are only 8-10" long, and I have about 20 leaves. If I can only keep the snails away from it

[BigDaddy]

Cool development

One of the many shoots coming off my plant started disintegrating.  I took the still green seeds that were developing on the shoot and carefully plucked them off and placed them in a tank just floating on the surface.

Today, at least one of the seeds as started germinating.

So, for those of you interested in AHAP... this plant will give you the potential to reach CAOAC's Expert and Master Aquatic Horticulturalist level as seeds and sexual reproduction are pre-requisites for each level.

[dan2x38]

To balance my tank after a failed attempt at EI dosing it was blacked-out for 5 days. I unveiled it today. Besides the plants being a little thin from having pruned algae covered leaves my A. undulatus had grown the center shoot. It sprung up to the top and is floating on top of the water. It is doing very well with many ruffled leaves 2' long a nice bronze/green colour.

[dan2x38]

Here is a picture of my plant is it the same as others?

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[BigDaddy]

It looks just like the one in my tank dan.

[dan2x38]

It looks just like the one in my tank dan.

OK KEWL I kept getting the msg. mine was different some how... suffering from uniqueness I guess... 

PS- missed you last night?

[RossW]

Looks like mine but mine is smaller and has dead/algea covered leaves.

[kennyman]

Your plant looks nice and tall and healthy Dan. Mine looks to be quite a bit shorter, but no co2 and 1.5 wpg seems to keep most of plants from growing very much at all 

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[dan2x38]

Cool development

One of the many shoots coming off my plant started disintegrating.  I took the still green seeds that were developing on the shoot and carefully plucked them off and placed them in a tank just floating on the surface.

Today, at least one of the seeds as started germinating.

So, for those of you interested in AHAP... this plant will give you the potential to reach CAOAC's Expert and Master Aquatic Horticulturalist level as seeds and sexual reproduction are pre-requisites for each level.

Hi BD... I have 2 runners and 2 more springing up... what are the acronyms above? I released some of the seeds on the water surface... could I not dry some out then germinate them? should I rub the 2 stems togeather first do they not have to pollunate?

[Ormarr]

How long can I expect this shoot to get?  It grew to just about 3 feet in about a week!  Considering I started late and my plant almost died, the leaves have reached about 18 inches now.  I must be doing something right!

[dan2x38]

How many shoots do you have? Mine has 6 now and they are all floating sort of twisted together rope sytle. Hey BigDaddy how do you do the seed collecting?

[BigDaddy]

My seed germinated and I have a mini plantlet going.  It has roots and 3 small leaves already.

If you want your plant to do better, cut off the shoots.  If you want to try to propagate it, leave them.

[dan2x38]

If you want to try to propagate it, leave them.

How does it propagate?

[Kats]

My plant is doing well too (and it looks like yours Dan!)  I've had 3 shoots so far but, not knowing what they were doing, I cut them off after a while.  I have another now so I'll leave this one on and pluck the seeds to see if I get lucky with baby plants too!!

[BigDaddy]

How does it propagate?

The spathe will flower and then produce seeds as shown in a pic somewhere in this thread.  I am just too lazy to find it right now 

[Laura]

I have no seed stalks, but my plant is very attractive.  Its leaves are well over 24" long, and there's about 20 leaves.  I like it a whole bunch.

[dan2x38]

I am like Laura I really like this plant! In May are we suppose to uproot it to be judged?

[Nerine]

welllllll I love the look of this plant but I think my catfish are playing in it!! the leaves are torn and it's back to being really short again!! ARGHHHHHHHHHHH I took it out of the tank and threw it in a bucket I have to dig up a lamp and I'm going to try and grow it large in a bucket, I have some other plants in there too that are tiny that are being harassed by the zamoras! I think they just play rough and the plants take a hit for it LOL

May needs to be a little further off my plant is maybe 4 inches tall LOL

[Fishnut]

That's better than mine Nerine.  I have it in a great planted tank and it looks like a mix between the undulatus and corkscrew Valesneria!  I have no idea what's going on with it!  All the new leaves are coming up twisty.

[dan2x38]

Did some prunning today cut off 7 of those shoots. I saved the flower tops to dry out the seeds. Maybe I can propergate a plant via seed?

[BigDaddy]

You don't need to dry out the seeds.  I pulled the seeds from my shoot when they were still green.  In fact, the plantlets I have still have the green husk attached to them.

[dan2x38]

Is this Aponogeton go into a dormant period? There was a discussion whether it is a Aponogeton crispus or Undulatus.

[BigDaddy]

It is NOT A. undulatus that's for sure.  Crispus and its hybrids don't go through a dormant period, that's what makes them popular for aquarium use.

[Nerine]

mine did the same thing, looked fantastic, then melted. and it's not the tank, the other plants are doing fantastic. I took it out and dumped it in a bucket with a light and blanket...who knows
stupid plant! haha I'm down to about 6 leaves

[kennyman]

No sign of dormancy here. New leaves grow in a bit faster than older ones decline which seems ok to me. But no indication of flowing either 

[dan2x38]

Mine is growing like mad. It is building up to be a tank buster. Anyone else? I do not know if I can wait until May... LOL I can't put it in my new tank wrong plant origin. I need South Amercian plants for that tank or at least ones that look like they are.

[BigDaddy]

Yes, mine outgrew my 75... I had to uproot it, and put it in another tank where it is currently pretty much draping the entire surface because the leaves have gotten so long.

[dan2x38]

Yes, mine outgrew my 75... I had to uproot it, and put it in another tank where it is currently pretty much draping the entire surface because the leaves have gotten so long.

Do you want another one for that tank? It is a beauty! Mine is in a 38g and out growing it fast no way it will make in there until May.

[kennyman]

So some of these stalks produced seeds and they proved fertile. I had hoped it was Dioecious and mine was simply a male. That would have explained so much about this plant but so much for that idea 

[BigDaddy]

Nope.. these plants have stamens and carpels on the spathe.

[Fishnut]

I wish I could figure out why my plant grew nicely and now every leaf is ugly and crinkled. 

[dan2x38]

Well I had to do it.  My plant was over taking my tank. I had 1/3 of the tank plus it's leafs ran 1/2 way across the top. The light was being blocked out for some of my other plants plus the plant it's self. Fishnut lost her original plant plus she is setting up a shiny new 72g bowfront from BA Boxing Day extravaganza. She took it for her tank. When I pulled it up the root system was huge. The entire plant must have been almost 30" tall or more. I guess I loss the contest...

[Fishnut]

Nah, you didn't loose Dan.  I'll enter it in the contest jointly!  I didn't loose mine completely.  It's still alive but quite ugly with deformed twisted leaves and a quarter of the size.  Maybe if it sees your plant it will be inspired and grow properly!

As tall as my tank is, it is also draping across the top.  I hope I spread the roots out enough though because after I cleared a spot for it in my gravel, the lovely flourite made enough of a mess that I couldn't see the bottom!  Ugh...anyways, it looks lovely in my tank!  I put it next to the powerhead so the leaves are waving in the current with the valesneria.  I put some of the smaller valesneria in front of it as well.  When the tank clears I'll post a pic.

I think next year's plant should be something smaller

[Laura]

I found I have a flower stalk 
Other than leaving it above the water line is there anything I should do?  I brushed it with a soft brush in the event moving pollen around would help, but not sure if that is necessary.

Any tips appreciated.

If I get more of these plants there's a limit to how many I'll be able to keep - some of my leaves must be 30" long and I have a reasonably low-tech tank.  You guys with CO2 must have monsters by now.

[kennyman]

I found I have a flower stalk 
Other than leaving it above the water line is there anything I should do?  I brushed it with a soft brush in the event moving pollen around would help, but not sure if that is necessary.

Any tips appreciated.

If I get more of these plants there's a limit to how many I'll be able to keep - some of my leaves must be 30" long and I have a reasonably low-tech tank.  You guys with CO2 must have monsters by now.

It must be something seasonal! I just got home from work, fed the fish, and noticed 14" tall stem sticking out of my 8" tall ovas plant. It is almost touching the surface and I do not recall seeing it there yesterday 

[Nerine]

mine is growing!! it's in a fishbowl and it's growing LOL

[BigDaddy]

I found I have a flower stalk 
Other than leaving it above the water line is there anything I should do?  I brushed it with a soft brush in the event moving pollen around would help, but not sure if that is necessary.

Any tips appreciated.

If I get more of these plants there's a limit to how many I'll be able to keep - some of my leaves must be 30" long and I have a reasonably low-tech tank.  You guys with CO2 must have monsters by now.

Monster is an understatement.  I had to pull it out of my CO2 injected 75 and put it into my medium light non-CO2 75.  In the CO2 tank, it was dominating a good square foot of actual substrate and the leafs were shading almost 2/3 of my tank.

I just found another small plantlet of it in my CO2 tank mixed in between a couple of my compact black swords I have in my foreground.  I guess a stray seed or two must still be floating around in there somewhere.

[dan2x38]

Hey Daddy-O I had to give mine away it over took my hi-light CO2 tank. That's a drag though I really liked it. Still trying to fill in that corner with growth... it left a big hole...

[Crumpet]

I'm so excited!  Mine grew the white buds on the end of its stalk, too!  Yesterday, nada.  Today, white flowery bits.  Cool plant!  If I didn't know any better, I'd think it was some sci-fi creature trying to take over the aquarium in order to sprout legs a la Triffids.  I'm keeping a weather eye on the stalk to be sure those are just flowery buds and not poison-spitting sacs 

[Kats]

my plant is like FishNut... all brown and small.  I did have 3 stems though and, the last one had seed so.... out of curiosity.... I pinched one seed off, buried it in the gravel and guess what.... a brand new plant is now growing!!!  My original plant won't be contest material but maybe Junior will!!!   

[Adam]

Hahaha,

What a plant contest!  Everyone's plants are outgrowing their aquariums and trimming is out of the question. 

[Kats]

Well, I'm almost out of the contest now 

I blacked out my tank for 5 days and when I opened it up, I had only 2 little leaves close to the roots that were still "alive" the rest of the plant had almost rotted away... I had to do some trimming!!  I hope it perks up a bit!!!  Is there a prize for the worst gardener???  (and I want to try to grow macrandra!!!  )

[RossW]

I am out... I yanked mine a week or so ago.  It had put off one runner that looked really cool but other than that had not grown much.  I am guessing it was too demanding for my setup and investment in non-plastic plants.

[Nerine]

I might be a runner up for worst gardener
I KNOW I won't be able to compete with everyone else here...mine is so small and piddly and just UGLY.
the weird thing, it never grew, everything else in the tank is 3 times the size, the java moss is crazy, the java fern has gone wild and the swords are much bigger!! but silly little contest plant!! grrrrrrrrrrrrr

[Jeff1192]

I didn't have my tank set up in time for the plant contest. However, I now have the chance to get someone's contest plant that is too big for their tank. The plant is the one that was in the auction, it's apparently 24-36" high and about 24" wide. I would like to make a spot for it in my 90 gallon but I'm wondering if my setup is good enough for this plant. I don't want to clear a big spot for it and then in a few months the large leaves all die off and I"m left with a much smaller plant. I have about 1.7 watts per gallon, no CO2 and fluorite substrate. Let me know what you guys think from your experience with this plant.

Thanks,

Jeff

[dan2x38]

It does better with high light & CO2. Mine grew out of control I use DIY CO2, 4wpg, flourite, & dry ferts weekly. I think it would stay together but might not flourish. If you do not have any egeria or vals you can use excel. You use ferts?

[Jeff1192]

I have vals and cryps so excel is out. The only thing I'm fertilizing is nitrogen. I was also dosing potassium and phosphorus but my algae was out of control. I have just started introducing nitrogen back in a couple of weeks ago and so far so good. I just don't want to clear a large spot for the plant and in a month or so it has become a small plant.

Jeff

[Laura]

I would say to try it. 

Mine's doing fantastic (well, I think so anyways ) with no CO2, plain gravel and just under 3wpg.  I don't have a fert schedule, but rather throw in some premixed liquid ferts that I got at an auction whenever I do a water change.  You can see the plant in my gallery, although it looks better now, and better in person than in the photo.

It's working on it's 3rd flower stem.  If I could get more of them I would use them as background in my tank as they are nicer than my stem plants.

(Recognizing that's high wpg to not have CO2, my lights aren't on for 10 hrs and sometimes not all at the same time, and my tank is very tall which I think skews the numbers.)

[Nerine]

any word on the plant contest?

[beowulf]

any word on the plant contest?

I received the prize for it in the mail and will be passing it on to a member of the executive soon.  Not going to reveal what it is but the winner should like it!! 

[succinctfish]

The plant contest will be judged at the May meeting, and the winner will get a prize.  So hold onto those plants until then. 

[Nerine]

verrry cool

well I'm out! mine is no where near what you people have, and doesn't even LOOK like what everyone else has...
I think I got a weed of some sort it's a nice low foreground plant!

[Fishnut]

I'm curious...how are these plants going to be judged?  Are we going to pull them out and lay them in a plastic bag or are they going to be put  in an aquarium for judging?  My competition plant is in a flower pot, but the one that Dan gave me is not. 

That reminds me, am I allowed to enter mine AND enter Dan's as a joint effort?

[succinctfish]

See here for plant contest information and reminders.

Don't forget to bring your plant to the meeting tomorrow!

[washefuzzy]

my plant was killed many months ago by evil algae 

[succinctfish]

We had a total of 3 entries in the plant contest this year.    Where did all those plants that we handed out at the beginning of the year go?  Okay, mine is looking fairly insignificant in my tank still, so I know what happened to one of them, but what about everyone else?
So, the question is, if you got a contest plant, why didn't you bring it to the contest at the end? It would be helpful to have this information, to assist next year's executive with plant contest decisions.


Congratulations to the winner this year, BigDaddy. 

[apuppet]

mine starting flowering a few days ago, and finally started to show some type of movement.  it was dormant since i gotten the plant, untill 2 weeks ago, when it decided to send this long stem upwards.  at first i didnt know what it was doing, and had to blink twice before i saw that stem.      i didnt want to rip it up and bring it in, and end up waiting another year for it to do anything.   but congrads to Sean for winning.  Mine would never have won.   its the same size, but with a stem added on it.

[kennyman]

My plant is still chugging along but does not do overly well in a 1.5 wpg non co2 tank. Could be the hard water??

I did not even attend the meeting. That is 3

[RossW]

I yanked mine from my tank at the end of Feb. as it was... "looking fairly insignificant in my tank still"

[Laura]

I have a contest plant, but only remembered as I was running out the door to the meeting.
I also wasn't keen on pulling it up in case it reacted badly - it's a really nice plant.  I liked the opportunity to grow it (and thanks Big D for one of your plants!)  It looks great.

I also had thought that I didn't have a chance of winning given my tank is lower tech.

What about if we did the initial round by photo and if we had a close tie then the potential winners could bring their plants to a meeting?

[Fishnut]

I planted mine in a terracotta pot, then put the pot in my tank.  It was pretty small, but in the spirit of the competition, I brought it in anyways.

Perhaps next year we should all grow something that does well in low tech and high tech tanks...Christmas Moss.  It's possible to get quite creative with the stuff and it would be interesting to see at the end of the OVAS season who did what with the moss.

[Nerine]

I didn't bring my plant...when I picked one up, I got one of the last ones, and it was fairly small, and it never grew! it has a beautiful root base on it right now, but just not growing UP. it's maybe about 4 inches or so tall if that!

[sas]

Wellllll........Ours grew twice (just leaves no flower spike) and is now in it's second dormency, at least I'm hoping it's not dead? For the moment it's a lovely brown mound of matter. Our plant was grown with 2 wpg and DIY CO2. Our water is extremely hard also. I've been threatening to throw it onto the manure pile for awhile now. Not that I ever would.
I didn't get to the meeting either .

[Vizerdrix]

What about if we did the initial round by photo and if we had a close tie then the potential winners could bring their plants to a meeting?

I like that idea.  I would be relunctant myself to dig out a plant that I've cared for so long and is doing well on the chance that it wouldn't recover from the shock.

Heck, I'd be willing to go to members houses to take the pictures, so as to validate that the presented shot was indeed from that member's tank.

[PaleoFishGirl]

I *love* the Christmas moss idea.  It would make more of that lovely plant available to everyone in the area.  You can do a LOT of cool things with it - make it a horticultural + art contest!

[Agnate]

When do these contests start, usually?