Lots of aggression...

[Jo]

I'm posting for a friend of mine who doesn't use the internet.
She has a 125 gal with the following population...  

 
 - Kribensis pulcher female adult
 - Electric Alhi  adult
 - Pseudotropheus zebra cobalt small
 - Hémichromis Lifalili and another of unknown family  small
  - Frontosa  small
  - Yellow Labido  adult
   - Trétocéphalus   adult
   - Tilapia du Madagascar Adult
   - Neolamprologus Brichardi medium
   - Eurékâ Red medium
   - Aulonocara Peacock ob adult
   - clown loache medium x2  
   - Green terror Medium
   - Hemichomis Jewel adult
   - Peusdotropheus Jtuntii (Spelling right???) X 3 (used to be 4)
     
   
+ 2 pléco  XXXXX large (13-14 " ) and another medium

    So Terror, Jtuntii and the adulte jewel are a bit beaten up. The jewel was to be there only temporarely but it's been 6 months already and the owner seem in no hurry to retake him... He's discolored and not very active. He eat a bit but shows not real "enthusiasm" for food.  The others 4 have damaged fins. Terror is living up to his named and seems to be the trouble maker here.  Almost all come from Quebec-cichlids.

  Her question is  this; is she overpopulated and is this a resonnably good combination of fish. Also what is the "ideal number" of fish that could be keep in a 6 " long X 24 ' high X 18' deep tank?

Thanks for the help coz I know nothing of africains  ...  Any suggestions you have would be great!

This is her tank. Pictures by me . (i'm not really good yet with the new digital cam...)
http://groups.msn.com/ptiteange/africains.msnw

[BigDaddy]

There is definately an odd mix of fish there.

The krib, terror and jewel are definately out of their element.

I'm no expect on Africans... but it sure doesn't look like there is enough rockwork in there for them to define territory.

[dpatte]

I feel sorry for that krib

[gvv]

- First of all: Krib is MALE
- Too many fish and not enough places to hide.  Pots are not good at least for rift lakes africans, as they prefer to have open back door, to run-away in case of danger.
- BigDaddy is right - get rd of this strange mix. I would even say that sometimes Aulonocara should not be put together with mbuna, and in this case we have them mixed, as well as fish from different rift lakes mixed and then from different continents.  :!:  
I only have cichlids from Malawi and even don't know about those from Tang. and Victoria - they are very different. But I should say if these were only mbuna, you could and better put more and the tank will not be overpopulated (at some time before grand auction I had 32 of them in 55G and now with only 12 it looks empty). In this particular case :? ... no suggestions, except select the type of fish she likes more, get rid of other types and add only those that can live together.

Regards

[slickshooter]

I'm not familiar with all the fish in that tank but here is what I know.
Firstly alot of the fish in there are NOT "Africans".Technically they are not compatible.

Electric (blue) Ahli are from lake Malawi and should have lots of rockwork and hiding spots.These fish can reach 8 inches in length.

Clown loaches also should have lots of hiding spaces and do better in groups of 6+ they can grow to 10 inches

Frontosa are from lake tanganyika and can reach 12  inches.

If the Tilapia is infact a Buttikoferi it can reach 12 inches+ and be a bully.

Plecos x2 at 14 inches.......they need hiding spaces as well and I'd say a new home.

Personally I think that tank is in for a lot of trouble.When all these fish are full grown they won't be able to move.The waste will be phenomenal. If you added the rockwork for the fish that need it you'll have to remove most of the larger fish.

There is fish from atleast 3 different "lakes" in that tank.Its possible to make the water work for them.Maybe a temperature in the middle of about 75 F and a ph about 7.8 (might be high for the clowns) but in the end there is way to many fish and to high of a bioload.

What would I do? First off get rid of all 3 plecos generally when they are that size they make more waste than they  help out with.
Add alot of "rockwork" pvc pies work well and are cheap.That way your fish that need the hiding spots will have them.
Do some research.......the fish that will stay in the 4-5 inch range when fullgrown will probably become a "toy" for the full grown 12 inchers.
Its hard to answer how many fish you could have because in that tank it varies so much. If it were all 5inch African Mbuna I'd say you could have 50+ in that tank.Seeing as you have some heavy waste producers though and potential violence its impossible to answer
Hope some of this helps.

[ambushman2j]

The mix of fish you have is terrible, what's happening is typical of what happens when you have a bad combination of fish, especially with african cichlids as you can easily have a bad mix of MALAWI only cichlids when you add fish from completely different parts of the world your assured to have trouble.  and I suspect this is going to get worse, your going to start losing fish, I agree with everyone elses comments, you assuradly need to get rid of alot of those fish

[Jo]

As i've mentionned, these are NOT my fish. They are those of a friend who doesn't use the net...


 Thanks for all the opinions... I'll take a little time to do some research as i'm totally clueless  when it come to africains...(i'm more into south-americains)


 The "decor" is not adquate for these species and the mix is explosive... I'll see if she's willing to part with some of them... And we'll try to find more rock.

[slickshooter]

No worries Jo I don't think anyone was "nipping" at you.Once you research it for your friend you will realize how unstable that tank really is.Hard to offer advice when almost nothing is done right.Once you slim down to a reasonable biotype.iId love to help more.Let us know what fish we are allowed to get rid of and we'll see whats workable.
Cheers

[Jo]

thanks for the help...
  I guess i was a bit over sensitive on that one...
:oops:

[NjOyRiD]

Ahhhh un tilapia jen veut un!!!!!

Tilapia, what kind of water do they need?

[blueturq]

Ahhhh un tilapia jen veut un!!!!!

Tilapia, what kind of water do they need?

Tilapia's are West African....  (ironically, so are Kribs, Jewels and Buffaloheads).  And West Africans prefer the same water as South (not Central) Americans. which would be like a ph of 6-7 I guess?

- Kribensis pulcher female adult
- Electric Alhi adult
- Pseudotropheus zebra cobalt small
- Hémichromis Lifalili and another of unknown family small
- Frontosa small
- Yellow Labido adult
- Trétocéphalus adult
- Tilapia du Madagascar Adult
- Neolamprologus Brichardi medium
- Eurékâ Red medium
- Aulonocara Peacock ob adult
- clown loache medium x2
- Green terror Medium
- Hemichomis Jewel adult
- Peusdotropheus Jtuntii (Spelling right???) X 3 (used to be 4)


+ 2 pléco XXXXX large (13-14 " ) and another medium

I think with that stocking list we can call it a fight night at the MGM Grand! :shock:

How does she balance the diets and the water parameters?!, as I see there are some Mbuna cichlids in there (most are vegetarians and require a higher ph) aswell as other africans in there (which like the mbuna, need a higher ph aswell!), and then there is a Green Terror which is an American Cichlid (South American to be specific) and whether they are South or Central American they will generally eat whatever! (but prefer meatier foods), and being a south american cichlid, they also prefer softer water and a lower ph (with a few exceptions of course!).

Je suis en crise cardiaque, par ce que, le quantité de poisons que ton ami a, est extraordinaire! :shock:

Bon Chance Jo!  :wink:

P.S. Yeah, I know "a little" Francaise!

[NjOyRiD]

so how come they are surviving with that kind of ph?

[blueturq]

so how come they are surviving with that kind of ph?

These fish could have been tank raised and/or very hardy?..... well defintley the latter lol!

[maitre007]

I have 125 gallon with a weird mix.  However my firemouth and convict cichlid that is in my aquarium comes from my wal-mart .  My green severum is from big al's but I got him as a junevile when they are more apt to deal with a change of water condition.  

They seem to thrive in my aquarium.

However I will duly note that in that type of ecosystem the male peacock is a difficult breed to have in there not from the aggression from the competing other malawi species but from the other male peacock.

I had two failed attempt in introducing a second male peacock due to the aggression of the existing male peacock.  The third attempt was succesful because I had to tap on the aquarium a few times to deter the aggression and I had to give personal feeding to the new one.

I make no qualms about it.  My aquarium is a on going expirement to darwin principle of survival of the fitness.  

However when a fish starts not eating and having damaged fins that's the time that you may start thinking about putting them in another aquarium.

On a final note, I would like to point out that the water conditions in a body of water is never consistent.  And while it is true that the water in central america differs for the most part from the water in africa, there is pocket of water in Belize and Costa Rica that are very high in ph that some fish are known to live in such as the bolivian ram.



That's my little test to see if

[NjOyRiD]

its funny, in my 130g I also have convicts, firemouth and Green Severums 2 years they have been together

[dpatte]

convicts firemouths and severums are all western hemisphere cichlids - a good match in fact

[NjOyRiD]

they never never run after each other, i had no probs at all
Right now...I'm having trouble with Firemouth cichlids Vs demerus Acaras

[blueturq]

they never never run after each other, i had no probs at all
Right now...I'm having trouble with Firemouth cichlids Vs demerus Acaras

oooo, you've got Cichlasoma Dimerus! :shock:

[NjOyRiD]

hahaha whats wrong with that?

[Woody]

NjOyRiD

Where did you pike these beauty up? Please tell me you have a pair and plan on breeding them, love to have some.

Thanks Woody