10/20 Gal FOWLR

[tskinner]

I'm thinking of going ahead with a saltwater setup but I only want to go fish only with live rock to start out.  I was thinking on buying either a 10 or a 20 gallon tank and going from there.  What I'm wondering is:

1) What do I use for filtration?  Will Aquarclear filters or something along those lines be good enough?

2) Lighting?  Can I just use the stock canopy with a different light or will I need to completely upgrade or can i just use stock hood/stock light?

3) Sand?  Is there a required amount of sand per gallon, or just try to get a sandbed of 2 to 2.5 inches.

4) Live Rock?  Is it better to go with cured or uncured?

5) Skimmer?  I shouldn't need a skimmer if I'm not doing corals.  Correct me if I'm wrong.

Well thats pretty much it for now.  Any help would be greatly appreciately as this is something I've wanted to successfully do.  Thanks in advance.

[Cheebs]

2 - You won't need much lighting for fish only.  You could use the stock lighting but you might want to make a slight upgrade for looks alone.

3 - There's no required amount, in face some people have no sand at all, but if you plan on having a tank full of critters 2-2.5 inches sounds perfect.

4 - It doesn't really matter if you go cured or uncured, it's just a matter a price vs waiting.  If you get fully cured rock your tank will cycle quickly and you could theoretically start adding fish much soon.  With uncured rock, you would simply have to go through the curing process hich can take up to a few weeks, but you'll end up with the same thing, minus the coralline algae.

5 -  This has to do with your #1 question too -  You will not NEED a skimmer, especially with a FOWLR tank.  You will want some kind fo filtration though.  Canister filters aren't usually recommended for saltwater, but you have a few options.  Some might even suggest no filtration + regular water changes, but personally I'd go with a small inexpensive skimmer.

This is all based off my experience with a much larger tank fo course, some some opinions might differ when it comes to small tanks like the one you're considering.

[tskinner]

Thanks for the info.  About the filtration, I was probably gonna use a Aquarclear Power Filter with the biomax inserts.  Or should I go with another type of filter like a fluval or something along those lines.  Also, what kind of water movement GPH should I be looking for in a 20 gal tank

[kennyman]

if you can, go bigger on the tank and cut back on the LR somewhat. Having the extra water volume will meen so much to you a few months into this. I totally aggree with Cheebs but I would add that a cheep hob skimmer can remove a lot of doc's before it needs to be broken down by microbial activity in the LR. I would suggest taking $80-$100 out of the LR budget and put it on a used hob skimmer.

[Cheebs]

For flow in a FOWLR I'd be looking at anywhere from 10-20x turnover.  You could go with a Hydor Koralia 1 powerhead, or a combination of smaller powerheads. Depending on the fish, more flow isn't always a bad thing.  Your filtration will add a smalla mount of flow too.

Anyways, your main filtration here will be the live rock itself, so it's tough to say which type of filter yous hould use if you aren't up for paying for a protein skimmer. I think the aquaclear should do the job if you're looking for that little extra.  I do agree with Kennyman though -  If you are going to invest in a skimmer, the cheapest ones out there could do more harm than good.  I also second getting a bigger tank and cutting down on live rock to start, because your fish won't mind and I can almost guarantee that you'll want to upgrade eventually .

[redbelly]

Do you already have the HOB filter?
I would put whatever money you were thinking about putting into the filter and put it in your skimmer budget.
If you do get a HOB filter be sure to clean the inserts very regularily.

What fish exactly are you thinking of keeping?

[sniggir]

I would have too agree with getting the skimmer for sure, if you are planning on putting a AC on there... just save your money... as all it will do is become a nitrate stink... your Live sand and Live rock are your biological, The skimmer makes sure that you have realy good water quality = happy fish... also you will not be able to put much in a 20 gal fish wise... a pair clowns, and maybe a golby.. so if you are able to get like a 50 gal to start would be much better for you in the long run.

[xenon]

A skimmer on a tank that small is pointless.

Anthony Calfo said anything smaller than 75g and you can afford to do 95% water changes to keep water quality high.

[redbelly]

Agreed, but how many people actually have the dicipline to maintain even basic water changes despite the fact that they really should.

[Aiglos]

Please moderators delete this if it is thread jacking but I think it will add to the thread.

I have a few questions myself  on some of the advice

Cheebs:  Why would a cheap skimmer do more harm then good ? can you explain a little more please.

A skimmer on a tank that small is pointless.

Pointless in the fact that you will spend more on Hydro/investment  vs just water changes ? Or pointless as in it will not remove dissolved nutrients ?  ( I miss water changes as well do to lazyness )

[redbelly]

I dont think he means pointless, just not economical.
A decent skimmer starts at $250. On a tank this small it is cheaper just to do large weekly water changes.

Skimmers like a seaclone or prism are not even worth the hydro IMO.

[Cheebs]

Please moderators delete this if it is thread jacking but I think it will add to the thread.

I have a few questions myself  on some of the advice

Cheebs:  Why would a cheap skimmer do more harm then good ? can you explain a little more please.
 

Pointless in the fact that you will spend more on Hydro/investment  vs just water changes ? Or pointless as in it will not remove dissolved nutrients ?  ( I miss water changes as well do to lazyness )

The problem is with skimming in a tank is that the skimmer doesn't discriminate between the "good stuff" and the "bad stuff".  There are nutrients in the water that you don't necessarily want to remove, but skimmers don't know the difference.  This being said, I guess I should have said any protein skimmer COULD do more harm than good.  If you're buying a cheap one though,  you'll run into more trouble than anything.  My close friend baught a 35$ skimmer for his tank, and she's always dealing with overflowing, too many micro-bubbles, clogging, etc..  I think, and most would agree, that if you're going to buy a piece of equipment like this you should invest a little more, especially since you will almost certainly want to upgrade it.

[kennyman]

Also part of what Anthony said was that two affordably priced skimmers were a far better option than a single expensive one 

[Aiglos]

Excellent explaination.

Thank you.

[redbelly]

Also part of what Anthony said was that two affordably priced skimmers were a far better option than a single expensive one 

Calfo's interpretation of a affordable skimmer though was a tunze, octopus or ASM vs. H&S or Deltec.

[sniggir]

here is another calfo quote... for those that say that there is no point to skimmers I say one thing if you will drink the collection cup after a week I will agree with you.... on a side note they also do other benificial things such as airate your water... hmmm I guess that is bad too.

[beertech]

Definitly try to go with a bigger tank, You will probably want to have a Tang or two after seeing a few of them in stores, and they really do better in larger, longer tanks. 

[tskinner]

Thanks for the info.  I just picked up a 20GAL High and some CaribSea Argonite from Big Als on the weekend.  Also order Hagen Glo T5 High Output 24 inch double light fixture with bulbs from Ricks Hobbies here in Pembroke.  Still trying to decide on filtration exactly.  Heard many different things so far.  I think I'm going to go with a Fluval 205(40GAL) for filtration and not sure for powerheads yet.  Anyone suggest what to get for a 20 High to get good flow.  I eventually plan on adding beginner corals when the tank is established and I'm used to maintanince so any further input or suggestions would be greatly appreciated.  Thanks 

[sniggir]

No need to use a fluval, as the LR is going to be your Biological.. you can use it to run carbon if you wish but that is all I would use it for other wise you will be changing the filter floss every second day,

[bhotep]

Don't discount the AC Filter as I have one on my 25g which has been up and running now for must be 8 months now. I do a 2-4g water change every 3-4 weeks, change the filter every couple of weeks and so far all is well (clown, 4 stripe damsel, derasa clam, bta) with a 65w PC light. Oh, and about 20lbs LR, maxijet 900.