My 90g + 20g sump mixed reef

[mikerobart]

This thread will document the progress of my new tank. I am upgrading from a 29 gallon with no sump and relatively low complexity, to a slightly more advanced, and larger system. I would appreciate any advice along the way.

Current equipment ( thanks to everyone I have purchased from, used or new!)

80 gallon Hagen tank, predrilled for 1.5" bulkhead
90 gallon Perfecto reef ready tank
33 20 gallon 3 chamber sump/refugium with baffles
Quiet one 4400HH return pump
Black Perfecto Stand

Aquamedic Aquaspacelight 2x250w HQI + 2x24 PC Actinics
2x54W t5ho retro added to Aquamedic Aquaspace light, workhorse 5 ballast, tek 2 reflectors
Bulbs: 2x250w 20000k EVC HQI's , 2 x 24w PC Actinic, (2x250w 20000k giesemann megachromes for spares, one spare 24w pc) 1x54w UVL Super actinic t5ho 1x54W ATI Blue + t5ho

SWC Extreme 200 Skimmer (This thing is HUGE!! Fits in sump, at an angle, with about 2mm of clearance, but plenty of room above to remove the collection cup... not sure how the hell I am going to clean it though.. no way to remove skimmer when tank is in place.. is this a problem?) - same as octopus, msx

SWC 160 Cone Skimmer

Maxijet 1200 w/ sureflow mod (nice flow from this, around 2100gph)
Vortech MP40w
3x Korallia 3

300W Titanium heater w/ controller

Reefkeeper Lite

Optima Vision 210 75gpd RO/DI

Autotopoff.com double float auto top off with aqualifter pump


Current Livestock:

Pink tail trigger fish
Pair of Ocellaris clownfish
Six-line wrasse
Royal Gramma
Blue Chromis
Skunk cleaner shrimp x 4
Brittle star
Pistol Shrimp
Pink/Blue Spotted Goby MIA
Numerous blue legs, red legs, scarlet hermits
Assortment of snails



Current Coral

Yellow tip torch (clowns currently hosting.. they need something new so it won't die)
Hammer coral
xenia
pulsing xenia
Large hairy mushrooms
some zoo's
gsp  (something keeps eating it, keeps coming back!)
couple acro frags
stag frag
Chalice frag
Mushrooms

[mikerobart]

Plumbing (Please help  )

Plumbing a sump is something I am doing for the first time, so advice would be appreciated. I am trying to keep my plumbing relatively simple, and because I want to transfer my livestock this weekend, I need to set it up in a timely fashion.

I am using a very simple standpipe to my 1.5" bulkhead. I have a reducer fitting to make a sort of DIY surface skimmer. I am still looking for advice on how many "teeth" I should cut into this, what size the openings in the teeth should be, spacing etc.

After the bulkhead there will be a ball valve, and another small section of pipe, going below the water level in the sump. This feeds the skimmer chamber,which overflows to the refugium section, which overflows through to the smallest chamber, where the return pump will be.

I am considering just running spaflex back over the top of the tank from the return pump, but would like some suggestions here as well. I do not want to be drilling holes at this stage.

I know with only one downpipe and one return I am not exactly fail safe here. Hopefully this is not too foolhardy. I guess I could always run multiple water level switches to the RKL to shut off the return if the main tank started to overfill.

Please any plumbing help would be great, keeping in mind I
don't plan on any more holes at this time.

[Hookup]

Your description sounds right on.  Agreed your not very fail safe, but it is what it is.. (my current setup is the same).

It sounds like you do not have an overflow setup... and I'm not sure where your bulkhead is (bottom or side)...

Number of "teeth" is a dark-art... be prepared to guess and possibly change... you're goal is to get more "true surface" water (the top 1/8th inch of water or so) into your sump... That'll be hard with the design your proposing... but be aware, that's your goal... Teeth should be small enuf that critters cannot easily get thru (snails) and big enuf to allow the most water thru, thus allowing you to skim more surface water...

So, how exactly is your tank / plumbing setup?

[mikerobart]

Bottom drilled for 1.5" bulkhead (back left ). Standpipe straight up to the diy surface skimmer I mentioned, ball valve after the bulkhead. Is it ok to drain STRAIGHT down into the sump?  While the gravity drainage to the sump will be through the bulkhead, I'd like to just go with an over the top return.

[mikerobart]

Picked up another maxi-jet, may or may not get the sure-flow mod for this one. I like the idea of having at least one of my powerheads running on the RKL at some point, get some more chaotic flow going. I don't think you can run a sure-flow modded maxi on a wavemaker or am I wrong?

Rattling each start up would also be unnaceptable to me- the tank will be in the bedroom.

The sureflow modded maxi is claimed to do about 2100 gph, and my return will be doing something like 500-900, all depending on how fast I am draining, if I can drain at the max flowrate of the quiet one then I will be using all 900 some gph.

Is two sureflow mods too much for my lps ? I know it will depend on placement as well. Should definitely be good enough flow to make sps quite happy.

[tskinner]

I would think the 2 sureflow mods plus the return would be alittle much for lps.  You'll pushing around 62X turnover rate in your display if you max out your quite one pump.  The SPS will definiately love it but unsure about the lps side.

[salvini55]

I don't think you can run a sure-flow modded maxi on a wavemaker or am I wrong?

The maxi jet's impeller changes direction everytime it cycles (turns off then on) This is fine for certain mods, but not the sureflow which implements a propeller.  when it "cycles", with a sure flow mod, the propeller will be sucking water in kinda like a boat motor going in reverse. Hope this helps.

[mikerobart]

Thank you both for your advice. I think I will not mod the 2nd maxi 1200 for now. If I ever do, it will mod in such a way that the motor reversal will not be an issue (simply drilling out its intake area, cutting down output for more dispersal.)

Even the extra 300 gph on a wavemaker might be enough to get some random flow patterns.

[mikerobart]

So, I have a few plumbing questions!

1. I have a valve immediately after my return pump to throttle it's output, is there any rule about putting it so close to the pump ? I was a little worried about the the turbulence it would create so close to the impeller, if the pump may not be designed for it, but think it will be ok, can someone weigh in here please.

2. I have a barb fitting and clamp to connect some spaflex to the return. Not worried about leaks on this end because it's sitting in the sump of course, but is the fitting ok in the water? It's a metal clamp that hold the flex tube tight the the barb fitting. I think steel or stainless steel so hopefully no copper.

3. What's the best way to get this flex pipe over the side of the tank and tightly in place so it doesn't fall out and pump water all over my floor?!? Don't want to use any types of fittings that would leak easily. Originally I was just thinking of sort of a U shape made of pvc that would hang over the side but I don't know if I can trust the fittings to attach the flex to this, and it would be outside the tank; I would worry about leaks.  I don't want any new holes, so the return has to be an over the top style. A home depot shopping list would be great! Something simple to rig up would be great.

[mikerobart]

Another quick question  .  My SWC extreme 200 arrived (same as reef octopus). It is HUGE! Fits in the sump.. barely. Room above to remove cup (plenty), but enough to remove the skimmer itself. Is this a problem? I actually had to drop the skimmer in through the top of the stand (same way I dropped in the sump.) I think I can reach in to clean but it will be tight!

[Hookup]

So, I have a few plumbing questions!

1. I have a valve immediately after my return pump to throttle it's output, is there any rule about putting it so close to the pump ? I was a little worried about the the turbulence it would create so close to the impeller, if the pump may not be designed for it, but think it will be ok, can someone weigh in here please.

This is a common practice.  Assuming you used a true-union ball valve you can then take the pump out of the system to service it by closing the ball valves on the input side and output side to the pump.. (or just have a union on the input side... either way).

Do not worry, it's all good.

2. I have a barb fitting and clamp to connect some spaflex to the return. Not worried about leaks on this end because it's sitting in the sump of course, but is the fitting ok in the water? It's a metal clamp that hold the flex tube tight the the barb fitting. I think steel or stainless steel so hopefully no copper.

No idea... why'd ya do that???  PVC glue is cheap...

3. What's the best way to get this flex pipe over the side of the tank and tightly in place so it doesn't fall out and pump water all over my floor?!? Don't want to use any types of fittings that would leak easily. Originally I was just thinking of sort of a U shape made of pvc that would hang over the side but I don't know if I can trust the fittings to attach the flex to this, and it would be outside the tank; I would worry about leaks.  I don't want any new holes, so the return has to be an over the top style. A home depot shopping list would be great! Something simple to rig up would be great.

You have the idea... just build a hard-pipe over-the rim style return line and glue the SPA FLEX to it.  There are several awesome expensive ways to go, but basically some PVC work should get you there without problem.

PVC glues onto SPA flex just fine... clean the surfaces well, then use a good amount of glue (not a crazy amount), then let it sit for a few hours before using it... SPA flex to hard PVC takes more time to harden than PVC to PVC... but I've got those connections all over my system and no leaks.. it's a proven method.  (I've let it dry for 20min then put it into the system with no issues, but it's not recommended... just saying... it's been done).

[mikerobart]

Thanks a lot hookup. I think with your tips I can manage from here. One thing though, you mentioned a valve on the input side of the return pump... I was thinking I could just sit it in the return section of my sump and only needed a valve on the output side to regulate flow if it is too much for my drain etc.

[Hookup]

Yeah, the valve on the input side isn't really acting as a valve, but as a connection point that you can do/undo... (I used valves cause that's what I had... True-Union-Ball-Valves vs True-Unions)

At some point you'll want to service your pump, or even repair/replace it... having union's or union valves allows you to disconnect the pump without having to do a tonne of plumbing... if you have already done the plumbing then do not add these now... you can do it when/if you service the pump...

[mikerobart]

I didn't realize I needed anything on the suction side of the pump. It just sits in the return section of my sump and draws water, pumps it up?

Is this more necessary if you have bypasses etc to regulate flow through the refugium and skimmer sections?

I was thinking of a very simple arrangement: Standpipe feeds skimmer section, has a ball valve on downpipe. Skimmer area overflows through baffles to refugium. Refugium overflows to return pump area. Return pump sits in this area, only piping is on discharge side, a ball valve, then some spaflex up to a U shaped pipe that will get the water over the back of the tank.

Might look to pick up one of those U shaped over the back fittings that also allow you more control to direct the flow from the return. Anyone know where I could pick one up in ottawa?

[salvini55]

what you want to do is fine, i think Tim is talking about external return pumps, having a ball valve on the intake would allow you to service the pump without getting water allover the floor. If you put a ball valve on the intake side of the pump you create back pressure and can burn out the pump. What your saying is perfect, you dont even need the ball valve(s) on the overflow pipes unless it is for service use. HTH

Kev

[mikerobart]

Thanks Kev

I will be doing the ball valve on the down pipe for service reasons as you say, and yes it is an internal pump.

In other news, I am working on a DIY light hanger for my light fixture, following tskinner's example. I will post pics in the coming week or so, just way too busy now finishing moving in to new apartment!

[Hookup]

what you want to do is fine, i think Tim is talking about external return pumps, having a ball valve on the intake would allow you to service the pump without getting water allover the floor. If you put a ball valve on the intake side of the pump you create back pressure and can burn out the pump. What your saying is perfect, you dont even need the ball valve(s) on the overflow pipes unless it is for service use. HTH

Kev

Yeah, what he said... LOL...

[mikerobart]

So, I have finally moved into my new apartment. My 29g is set up and fish look very happy, all except one blue chromis who was injured in a rock accident  . I feel bad, but at least it was not one of my clowns.  .

He died shortly after the rock incident, but provided a very tasty meal for the brittle star, as well as the clean up crew, who devoured his remains.

As soon as I had the 29g set up, I realized my salinity had gone too high during the move.. some evap and stirring things up. I was forced to make water right away, but realized a little late that the water pressure in my apartment is only 32psi!

This is from the laundry sink in the basement. I might be in the market for a booster pump, unless the pressure at the outdoor faucet is much better. Despite this, I needed water fast,  so I rearranged the hoses on my RO/DI to only pass through three stages, and not the time-limiting RO stage. Fish seem very happy so far, so I am hoping the carbon and de-ionizing resin helped enough that things will be ok for the 5g or so that made in this way.

@32psi, RO is reallllllllyyyyy sloooooowww ! I have to ask Ray about a booster pump... anyone have experience with these?  I haven't checked yet, but would water pressure be better at the outside faucet likely?

I can still make water @32, but, considering I am paying all inclusive, and my landlord is stuck with my water bill.... I don't want him to freak out too much when he see's it. Hydro is included but I offered to pay for the extra demand caused by my lighting etc when I set up the larger tank. 

[Hookup]

Good on you, IMO, for offering to off-set the costs, even if your landlord didnt take you up on it, it's nice to see you were thinking...

Booster pumps are pretty simple devices, you should have no issues with them.  To my knowledge you can get a good one from HD or RONA or LOWES or CanadianTire, etc... and install it in a few min...

Water outside could be at a completely different PSI depending on the quality of plumbing done... only one way to find out... And given winter... i'm guessing it's only a temporary fix for you...

[mikerobart]

Good point about winter.. was not thinking about that. Will probably pick up a booster tonight. Thanks