10 Random Rookie/Newbie Questions...

[shaheed]

I lurk and hijack threads.  I'd like to stop now.  But I also don't want to post 100's of new topics.  So I'll group them together!    Just some random questions:

1.  Bulk Reef Supply:   as far as group orders go -- can I just join anyone?  In the states as well?  Or does it have to be the same country/province/city?  The website seems to say all over the US and Canada -- but just seem's a bit too... easy..?  lol

2.  Vortech pump and tunze osmolator:  I'm making plans for a tank.  Right now it'll be the 40g that I have.  But I'd like to go bigger.  But with that comes more responsibility and money -- I'm not sure if im quite ready for either.  Also, I would go sumpless with the 40 (I feel I can get away with that with more ease with everything being HOB).  So -- if I do that, and have a tunze osmolator that acts as my ATO in the display -- will a vortech pumps waves cause the sensor to go crazy?  I've looked this up on RC and other forums and I see a lot of mixed reviews and a lot of 'JUST GET A SUMP YOU MORON'.

3.  Sand or BB:  There  seems to be a lot of debate on this topic.  I was always under the impression that you put sand in for the same reason as live rock -- let bacteria grow to act as bio filter.  And I'm not referring to a DSB, just a regular 1-2" sand bed.  Now it seems as tho its worth more to go BB?  But then you can't get many gobies or sand dewlling creatures!  Is that all that a shallow sand bed is for?


4.  T5's:  whats the real difference between a 4bulb and a 6bulb fixture -- for lets say a 40g breeder.  Besides light bulb combos -- how much of a difference will corals trully react?  and do these light fixtures always come with a separate plug for 2 of the bulbs to have an 'actinic' time only?

5.  Led's:  optics.  I gather optics are for depth.  Is there a rule of thumb for what optics you require ?  Given that the fixture will be at least lets say... 8" above tank.  When would you consider 90 degree optics over lets say 40 degree ones?  This might be to general of a question and I can understand if it can't be answered easily.

6.  Cycling a tank:  with or without skimmer?  why or why not?

7.  Bio spira:  or other nitrifying bacteria additives for cycling -- thoughts?

8.  Anemone:  T5's doable for keeping an anemone?  I've always wanted a bubble tip and for clowns to host it... i figure that'll be the first coral i get, and then wait for it to plant, stay there, and hope for the best!

9.  Chaeto/reverse lighting:  I've read a lot that macro algae's are good to have for various reasons -- one main one being to keep nitrates in control.  And in order to maintain something like chaeto -- it should be on a reverse light cycle to keep ph in balance.  Is there really that much of a shift in ph between night and day for a 40g tank?  I was thinking of keeping chaeto in the display -- but behind the rock work.  Didn't really want a 6500k light shining in the back of the tank every night for that... -- I've seen some people just leave it without reverse lighting.  Not sure if thats 'right' or 'wrong'.

This is getting too long... last question for this volume of questions..

10.  Power.  Beauty.  Soul.


I thank you all in advance.

[Greatwhite]

1. I have seen/heard of many people ordering from BRS.  Fast delivery, in spite of having to go through customs.

2. You wouldn't want the ATO on your display.  The return compartment of your sump will lower, and that's the ideal place for it.  However, if you don't have a sump - you can set it up so that your low sensor is low enough that any waves generated by the vortec pumps will not affect it much.  (If it does, you can simply put your osmolator on a timer to come on overnight to top up nightly when you have your vortecs dialed down)

3. Sand beds build up beneficial bacteria and act as a part of the filtration system in your tank... There are many people running bare bottom successfully.  It comes down to your personal preference... I like the natural look of the sand, personally.  Others like the minimalistic look of bb.

4. 4 bulb vs 6 bulb really comes down to how you want to match the size of the tank.  My 90 is 24" wide, and my 6 bulb T5 fixture covers it completely.  Part of me would prefer a 4 bulb + 2 Reefbrite strips...  4 bulbs is 'right' for a 40G, and if (when) you decide to go bigger, you can tack on the LEDs for super sexy coral coloration.

5. Optics are great... moving on.  (sorry - I don't feel confident in my ability to answer it, except logically with ~90 degree, you'd be putting it higher to get more dispersion... 40 degree would be closer for less loss of light)

6. Cycling WITH a skimmer, in my opinion.  I like to cycle with everything that will be running in 6 months so that adding more equipment later doesn't cause too much change.

7. I don't like additives of any kind, but that's just me.  I actually had to google Bio Spira to see what it was... It looks like lots of people advise against attempting to speed up the cycle, but people go against the advise and use this stuff, which seems to speed a cycle up to < 1 week...  Honestly though, how you start the tank will GREATLY influence how you run it long term.  Patience is key, as has been learned time and time again on the forum.  If you try to go too fast, you run a higher risk of killing fish/corals.

8. Yes T5 is fine for them.  And Anemones should never be the first coral you get because as people learn when they start out, Anemones do MUCH BETTER in an established tank.  They can be very sensitive to changes in water parameters, which may happen a lot in the first year.  Start with beginner corals.  If you want some movement, get a Torch.  I've been running saltwater for 6 years.  My current setup is 1 year old, and I attempted (and lost) an anemone once - and haven't tried again.

9. I wouldn't do reverse lighting on the display tank.  I wouldn't even put chaeto IN my display tank.  You're much better off looking into building a HoB refugium or some sort of sump.  However, the main reason I was told for reverse lighting is as you said - to balance the PH between night and day.  I really don't know if it makes a difference as I haven't tested during the day/night either way.  I just took "the experts" word for it.

10. That is not in the form of a question.  So - let me just say that everything in salt water tanks is worth waiting for to do it right.  Minimize loss by taking time at the start.

[bt]

1.  IIRC, anywhere eligible for BRS.  Don't all need to be in the same area.

2.  I would find it to be a concern, but have no personal experience.

3.  Honestly?  Outside of the burrowing livestock concern, go with what you think you'll prefer.  They both have their pros and cons.

4.  Pass.

5.  Also pass, though I suspect JetJumper should be able to help with this one.

6.  No definitive answer.  I say skimmer on (though I also say don't spike your ammonia crazy high).  If it's a new skimmer, it will help break it in.  If it's not, well, you want the crap out of your tank anyways.

7.  Don't waste your money.

8.  I've known people who kept them under T5s just fine.  Might relate back to #4.  They can be very sensitive to water conditions though, so getting one first might not be a good idea.  Also - technically not a coral.

9.  Reverse photo period likely has minimal impact on pH, though I don't know for sure.  I've got mine on a reverse photo period, because it's in a sump and it's easy to do it.  Helps that it runs during off-peak electrical rate hours that way.  Part of the purpose is to keep the algae out of the display, though.

[JetJumper]

5. Optics are great... moving on.  (sorry - I don't feel confident in my ability to answer it, except logically with ~90 degree, you'd be putting it higher to get more dispersion... 40 degree would be closer for less loss of light)

Its actually the opposite.  40 degree optics you require mounting the fixture higher to get the same coverage as you would with 90 degree's at say 6" off the water.

I use 80's on my fixtures that I make.  anything lower is too narrow and requires the fixtures to be mounted too high off the water IMHO.

However if you have a deep tank (30"+) then you go with narrow optics to reach the bottom of the tank.

[JetJumper]

1.  Bulk Reef Supply:   as far as group orders go -- can I just join anyone?  In the states as well?  Or does it have to be the same country/province/city?  The website seems to say all over the US and Canada -- but just seem's a bit too... easy..?  lol

I noticed this:

http://www.canreef.com/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=85282

There is currently a Group Buy happening for May

[Greatwhite]

Of course - I had the "effect" of 40 & 90 degree bass ackwards in my head.  Durrr...   It makes a lot more sense with the pics!  Yay JJ!

[shaheed]

Thanks everyone for your time and responses!  It seems like Im going to have to rethink adding an anemone first thing in my tank.  I've got a 10 gallon that I started because I was so eager.  And to let 10lbs of live rock mature, and a sponge in my filter to 'mature' as well.  To add to the 40 or whatever size tank and hope for an easier transition.  I'm just concerned that if i start stocking the tank with 'easy' corals, and then introduce an anemone, I run the risk of the anemone just parading around and destroying everything!  I've read that this can happen!?

8.  I've known people who kept them under T5s just fine.  Might relate back to #4.  They can be very sensitive to water conditions though, so getting one first might not be a good idea.  Also - technically not a coral.

Good call -- not a coral !!

I noticed this:

http://www.canreef.com/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=85282

There is currently a Group Buy happening for May

Yes!  There' seems to be many of these group buys in can reef and other reef forums as well.  Good to hear that I can join them !

2. You wouldn't want the ATO on your display.  The return compartment of your sump will lower, and that's the ideal place for it.  However, if you don't have a sump - you can set it up so that your low sensor is low enough that any waves generated by the vortec pumps will not affect it much.  (If it does, you can simply put your osmolator on a timer to come on overnight to top up nightly when you have your vortecs dialed down)

3. Sand beds build up beneficial bacteria and act as a part of the filtration system in your tank... There are many people running bare bottom successfully.  It comes down to your personal preference... I like the natural look of the sand, personally.  Others like the minimalistic look of bb.

9. I wouldn't do reverse lighting on the display tank.  I wouldn't even put chaeto IN my display tank.  You're much better off looking into building a HoB refugium or some sort of sump.  However, the main reason I was told for reverse lighting is as you said - to balance the PH between night and day.  I really don't know if it makes a difference as I haven't tested during the day/night either way.  I just took "the experts" word for it.

10. That is not in the form of a question.  So - let me just say that everything in salt water tanks is worth waiting for to do it right.  Minimize loss by taking time at the start.

Yes, I like the idea of having the sensor a bit lower...  It should still work the same --, I've also just recently read that maybe 'reef crest mode' or another mode (can't remember) won't produce as much of a disturbance...  And I too like the natural look of sand.

Im planning on having a HOB refugium of sorts, some tanks look OK with macro algae in the display, thought if i could, then i would! 

[Greatwhite]

Don't get me wrong - I love macro algae in a display, but not chaeto. That stuff is ugly!

[shaheed]

Don't get me wrong - I love macro algae in a display, but not chaeto. That stuff is ugly!

What's wrong with a big ball of green hair? Lol

[Greatwhite]

I like the idea of having the sensor a bit lower...  It should still work the same --, I've also just recently read that maybe 'reef crest mode' or another mode (can't remember) won't produce as much of a disturbance... 

If you plan on makin' waves, you'll need to get the level set so that you're not splashing over.  From there, set your low sensor, then have it run at night.  It's normal to turn down the powerheads at night, and that reduce the waves so that the ATO brings it up to where it should be.  You won't lose enough water over the course of the day to even notice it in the display...

But yeah, you should be able to adjust the Vortechs to give GENTLE movement and you can keep the ATO on during the day.  But - if your upper sensor keeps getting tripped, the constant beep will get real annoying, real fast.  Any time I reach into my tank to scrape a little algae off the glass, my sensor beeps at me - and it's in my sump.  The water level rises just enough to trip it, so I unplug the power while I'm working.

It'll just take some fiddling once you're set up.  Fortunately you'll have plenty of time to perfect the water movement & topup while you wait for a cycle!

[shaheed]

Ooh, I'm expecting a short cycle!  This is going to be a transfer of 5 month cycled water (lol) and 10lbs of 5 month rock, with a sponge that's also in the hob that'll help seed the new dry rock I'll add.  Fingers crossed

[bt]

"Cycled water" does not exist.  Using old tank water has it's benefits, but speeding up the cycle is not one of them.

10lbs of dry rock will take awhile to properly seed the rest of the dry rock in a 40G.

Patience, patience, patience.  Don't expect a short cycle and plan accordingly.

[shaheed]

Oh I know it doesnt exist, thats why I put the lol...lol!   The 10 lbs is really to handle the bioload that I have now in the 10 g... Seeding will take the time it takes, I agree, but I'm hoping to avoid the initial spike in ammonia that u would .. Am I wrong to assume or think that?  I mean there will always be technically spikes, but I mean the 'main' one u get...

[bt]

Certainly possible if you're not increasing the bio-load right away.

Things have a way of not going as planned sometimes though, so have a backup plan.  A bottle of Prime on Amquel on hand could be a life saver, as could a batch of salt water ready to go for a big water change.

[Hookup]

I lurk and hijack threads.  I'd like to stop now.  But I also don't want to post 100's of new topics.  So I'll group them together!    Just some random questions:

2.  Vortech pump and tunze osmolator:  I'm making plans for a tank.  Right now it'll be the 40g that I have.  But I'd like to go bigger.  But with that comes more responsibility and money -- I'm not sure if im quite ready for either.  Also, I would go sumpless with the 40 (I feel I can get away with that with more ease with everything being HOB).  So -- if I do that, and have a tunze osmolator that acts as my ATO in the display -- will a vortech pumps waves cause the sensor to go crazy?  I've looked this up on RC and other forums and I see a lot of mixed reviews and a lot of 'JUST GET A SUMP YOU MORON'.

The Waves will make the osmolator go nutz....   just get a sump..

3.  Sand or BB:  There  seems to be a lot of debate on this topic.  I was always under the impression that you put sand in for the same reason as live rock -- let bacteria grow to act as bio filter.  And I'm not referring to a DSB, just a regular 1-2" sand bed.  Now it seems as tho its worth more to go BB?  But then you can't get many gobies or sand dewlling creatures!  Is that all that a shallow sand bed is for?

looks like you've got the gist... either way... there are hundreds of tanks of both style and people still have success....  IMO nothing look as good as sand on the bottom... so that's what I've always run.

4.  T5's:  whats the real difference between a 4bulb and a 6bulb fixture -- for lets say a 40g breeder.  Besides light bulb combos -- how much of a difference will corals trully react?  and do these light fixtures always come with a separate plug for 2 of the bulbs to have an 'actinic' time only?

Assuming each bulb is 54 watts, the real difference is both color combinations and 108watts of power which means more PAR.

Various fixtures are built with separate pugs for your 2 bulb setup to simulate dawn/dusk.

5.  Led's:  optics.  I gather optics are for depth.  Is there a rule of thumb for what optics you require ?  Given that the fixture will be at least lets say... 8" above tank.  When would you consider 90 degree optics over lets say 40 degree ones?  This might be to general of a question and I can understand if it can't be answered easily.

Optics focus light... therefore, directly related to depth.  Rules of thumb are only good once you understand how/why the rule is created... otherwise your following blindly... not something i want to do with thousands of dollars at stake.

There are some LED experts on the board, maybe a separate thread in the equipment form?

6.  Cycling a tank:  with or without skimmer?  why or why not?

IMO wont make any difference.  Might as well get the skimmer broken in sooner than later.

7.  Bio spira:  or other nitrifying bacteria additives for cycling -- thoughts?

Not only are these not necessary, there are people who've had issues because of them... so why take the risk, it'll happen on its own anyhow without risk.

8.  Anemone:  T5's doable for keeping an anemone?  I've always wanted a bubble tip and for clowns to host it... i figure that'll be the first coral i get, and then wait for it to plant, stay there, and hope for the best!

Bad choice.  These need a very mature stable watercolumn.  Most advise waiting for 1year before adding.  Not my area of knowledge as I don't have one.. the one I did have was an LTA and i added it after the 1year mark... it did well till I sold it for walking all over my SPS and burning them

9.  Chaeto/reverse lighting:  I've read a lot that macro algae's are good to have for various reasons -- one main one being to keep nitrates in control.  And in order to maintain something like chaeto -- it should be on a reverse light cycle to keep ph in balance.  Is there really that much of a shift in ph between night and day for a 40g tank?  I was thinking of keeping chaeto in the display -- but behind the rock work.  Didn't really want a 6500k light shining in the back of the tank every night for that... -- I've seen some people just leave it without reverse lighting.  Not sure if thats 'right' or 'wrong'.

water volume is not a factor in your ph Chemistry... At night the o2 levels drop and CO2 levels rise due to various organisms coming out to play at night and others going to sleep... I could find the specifics but that's the basic jist.  having your cheato process light and produce 02 at night off-sets this and keeps 02/C02 levels in balance (more closely) and levels pH... (BTW, pH is affected by C02 levels among other things but this is the idea behind reverse lighting).

GET A SUMP... get a $10 bulb/and mount at Home depot and put a power-compact on it... done...

This is getting too long... last question for this volume of questions..

10.  Power.  Beauty.  Soul.


I thank you all in advance.

[az]

go sand, imo.