House reno... build thread?

[Greatwhite]

I was GOING to use the subject "Renovating is worse than everything else combined"... but it's really not that bad.

We've been in this house for 3 1/2 months now... and have already blasted through (or are in the process of blasting through) about $100k of our reno budget.... Which is significantly more than we anticipated.  BUT - that's what happens when you're paying someone else to do the work, right???

I have before and after pictures of most of the reno...

> Moldy old windows are all replaced with nice new white PVC windows...  Except for 5 that were ordered beige by mistake.

> Nasty upstairs carpet is all new...

> 2 of 5 closets (kids rooms) have been updated with nice built-in units from Canadian Tire.. The Easy Track system is FANTASTIC if anyone is looking to update theirs!  I even replaced the 1989-style floor to ceiling sliding closet doors...

> bannister was stripped and painted

> Walk-in closet was gutted and redone by California Closets..

> kitchen is gutted and the nasty old tile was removed and new tile was just put down... Waiting on cabinets to be delivered wednesday.  I have all my new appliances sitting in boxes ---- waiting.....

[Greatwhite]

staircase...

I still need to paint the walls...  Just waiting on the main floor stuff to be done first.

[Greatwhite]

master walk-in closet...  i wish I got a before picture.  Basically - it was painted dark brown all around. There were MDF shelves all all 3 walls... and a tiny globe light on the ceiling.  I promise that the woman who lived here did NOT know what she was putting on in the morning with the colors she had in there.

I got a picture after gutting it, and after priming.  That pink carpet was through the master bedroom... YUCK!

[Greatwhite]

The kitchen is the big job...  No kitchen reno is cheap - but when you start with a kitchen like we did.... EVERYTHING is an improvement.  The drawer faces are not even real -- they are doors, cut in 4 and mounted on a drawer box.

The appliances in here are original from 1989 when the house was built.  All being replaced with new LG stainless stuff.

We're going on 9 days of reno there.  It took 3 full days to bust out all the tile that was there, with 1 day that the kitchen guys took it easy while window guys did the windows in there.

Radiant heat is going to be NICE in the winter.  All the tile we are putting down is heated.  Take THAT mother nature!

[Greatwhite]

This was a fun find behind the existing cabinets... in 1989, they didn't have the fancy stud finders we have today...?

EVERY stud all around the kitchen has hammer marks & holes on either side.  They were behind the cabinets, so who cares - right??

My contractor has patched all those hammer holes.

[Greatwhite]

The cabinets were delivered last wednesday and quickly filled up the 12x16 eating area beside the kitchen...

[Greatwhite]

The contractor came late Thursday afternoon to get a start at unpacking and placing everything.  Friday, he was back all day - and this is where we are now.

Yes, that little area in the "bar" is just the right size to fit a bar fridge that I bought.

The counter top guy will be here tomorrow (I think?) to template for quartz we ordered last week.  He has a 10 day turn around after templating.  I think it'll be faster than that.

The electrician will be here Tuesday to install the pot lights finally, and turn on the circuits for the oven, cook top, microwave....  Can't wait!!!

[Stussi613]

I need to make sure my wife doesn't see this, she's been pestering me about changing our beech colored cabinets to white for months...

Lookin really good!

[Greatwhite]

I need to make sure my wife doesn't see this, she's been pestering me about changing our beech colored cabinets to white for months...

Lookin really good!

I honestly did NOT like the idea of white cabinets at the start...  I am a wood fan, and when you take MAPLE and have it painted white -- a part of me dies.  But, the wife was trying to push me into "dark uppers and white lower cabinets" and that would have killed me.  I told her to pick one, and hoped for dark wood finish.  She chose white.

So then we made sure that the floor and walls would be enough of a contrast without being too hard on the eyes.  Really, most of the visible wall in the kitchen itself will be tiled backsplash, but the color had to work in the breakfast nook (and then down the hall to the front door).  Grey it is...  In some light it has a green tint - almost a sage green.  In other light it appears beige.

Once the cabinets went up, everything came together and now I am a big fan of white cabinets.  Yes - it's maple, painted white...  The difference between that option and "therma foil" (shrink wrapped MDF) was pretty small in the grand scheme of things, and I found the MDF stuff ugly.

So far the $$$ tally on this reno, including all new LG appliances, quartz counter tops, completely new lights throughout, tile from the front door through a laundry room, powder room, breakfast nook & kitchen (about 700 sq feet) -- the cost of the contractor doing the reno, and paying the kitchen designer has us around $75k.  Fortunately we budgeted for this expense before even buying the house - and had the bank's blessing on adding the reno to the mortgage or it would not be happening.   (also had a $26k window job, and $12k upstairs carpet job since moving in... YIKES!)

Don't start a complete kitchen overhaul without expecting to shell out the dough... Much like starting a salty aquarium!

[Stussi613]

I hear you, I love the way they look, I just don't love the idea of ripping 7 year old cabinets out to replace with white...nor do I love the idea of paying someone to paint the aforementioned cabinets white when we're going to sell the townhouse in 5-7 years anyway!

[sas]

  Oh the joys of home ownership.
House is looking very nice.

[Greatwhite]

I hear you, I love the way they look, I just don't love the idea of ripping 7 year old cabinets out to replace with white...nor do I love the idea of paying someone to paint the aforementioned cabinets white when we're going to sell the townhouse in 5-7 years anyway!

I felt no remorse when the 23 year old cheaper than cheap "oak" cabinets were removed here...  The drawers were not even proper drawer fronts -- they were doors cut into 4 pieces and then attached to the drawer box.  I swear the people who had this house built initially looked for ANY opportunity to DOWNGRADE items with the builder.

In our last house, the cabinets were nice oak - but they were "honey" colored and we didn't like them so much.  The wife stripped them down as much as possible and then used Polyshades tinted varathane on them to darken them to a nice cherry finish. 

Painting white would be much easier, if you use the right primer.  There's a type of primer that will grip onto ANYTHING, and let you go from a previously oil based paint to a latex.  Then a nice Sherwin Williams "Emerald" paint leaves a very nice finish.

I think the primer is.. umm... Zinsser B-I-N primer.  It's a little pricey @ $60 a gallon at Home Depot, but a little goes a long way.

[Fishnut]

I love renos!!  This thread is great!  The kitchen is going to be amazing! You'll like the white.  It'll look nice when everything comes together.  What colour counter top and back-splash are you going with? Looking forward to the final "after" pic.  The stairs look good too.  Is the dark wood part stained?  

We bought a fixer-upper and are slowly but surely fixing it up.  Last year was outside...improve lawns, make back yard gardens, fix up deck and new front windows!  Although we were not able to get the pond started/finished like I wanted...pond guy was too busy.  This year is the year of the basement...lol.  Hubby and his buddies gutted it right down to the concrete a few years ago.  It was gross.  They obliterated the stinky bathroom and all the other crap the old owners used to finish it.  Then they re-framed the walls for the new lay-out that we want and insulated.  Now we need to put in a new bathroom and finish the rec room, which we will be hiring someone to do.  We have plans for a big TV in the basement for watching movies plus LOTS of space for the kids to play.  I even got a place for my 180 famed into the wall of the rec room so when it's all finished it will look like it's built into the wall!!

Eventually we'll be re-vamping the main floor and putting on an addition to the back of the house.  That's going to be mega bucks.    Walls are being re-insulated, new floors, new bathroom, new and larger kitchen, new patio door, adding a 4th bedroom, etc.  I'm going to have to put up with my ugly kitchen, parquet floors and bathroom for a while before we save enough for that.  Unless of course I suddenly find myself lots of clients with higher than average priced houses to sell and HUGE house hunting budgets    

Here's my reno tip for people who plan on selling...kitchens and bathrooms sell houses!  For some reason those are the rooms that people like renovating the least.  Makes sense I guess because they're more complex than any other room and the reno is a huge inconvenience!  Buyers these days are also not like our friend who started this thread.  Most are not willing to do any work and have a very annoying lack of imagination or any idea of what renos can cost.  So, if you're planning on selling, get these key areas renovated if your budget allows for it.  If the work is done well with nice and fairly neutral finishes, you'll get your money back from the sale.  If you want colour in your reno, make sure that colour is in something that is easy for a new home owner to change...like paint...not tiles or counter tops.

[exv152]

Agreed, very interesting thread. I can't get over the hammer holes in the drywall behind the cabinets.  Hope the new cabinets weren't installed with that same "finess".

[Greatwhite]

Agreed, very interesting thread. I can't get over the hammer holes in the drywall behind the cabinets.  Hope the new cabinets weren't installed with that same "finess".

Naw.. My guy patched up those holes, and then we joked about it for a week... When he went to put the new cabinets in, it seemed that he just "knew" where the studs were.  That wall I took the picture of has 24" centered studs, and it look a couple tiny drill holes "out of the way" to locate the first one.

[Greatwhite]

The new counter top is going to be Hanstone Quartz... "Blackburn" is the name of the color...



it'll look great with the nice grey (heated) tile... Sage greeny grey walls.... and some kind of curtains with a little PUNCH IN THE FACE of color.

We haven't decided on a backsplash yet...

[sylros]

Awesome topic, as I am also in the midst of doing my kitchen. A total gut and here too, the builder used lower than the lowest of products as everything was done with whatever he had on hand...if he had nails he  used them so the floors squeak, the walls are popping in some places. The cabinets were whatever was left over from someplace and made to fit, some parts installed on the carpet.

Before posting photos here, I am going to wait until you're done as I am not quite there yet anyway...it will be before Xmas that's for sure!

It ended up costing us less but that is partly because we did the demolition ourselves...managed to gross me out as we found a mouse next complete with chicken bones, dead bugs and droppings galore. We prepped the area, including the flooring...refinished the flooring around the kitchen, painted, and are in the middle of installing the backsplash. Glass tiles not that easy to install and I've done a few tiling jobs before.

I do have before and after pics...but later after your done. We also went with quartz. Can't wait to see your finished product!

[Greatwhite]

Awesome topic, as I am also in the midst of doing my kitchen. A total gut and here too, the builder used lower than the lowest of products as everything was done with whatever he had on hand...if he had nails he  used them so the floors squeak, the walls are popping in some places. The cabinets were whatever was left over from someplace and made to fit, some parts installed on the carpet.

Before posting photos here, I am going to wait until you're done as I am not quite there yet anyway...it will be before Xmas that's for sure!

It ended up costing us less but that is partly because we did the demolition ourselves...managed to gross me out as we found a mouse next complete with chicken bones, dead bugs and droppings galore. We prepped the area, including the flooring...refinished the flooring around the kitchen, painted, and are in the middle of installing the backsplash. Glass tiles not that easy to install and I've done a few tiling jobs before.

I do have before and after pics...but later after your done. We also went with quartz. Can't wait to see your finished product!

My contractor laughed at me for doing some "other work" down the hall away from the kitchen...  We shaved the stipple off the breakfast nook area's ceiling because it looked silly.  Fortunately it was not painted - ever, so it came off easy.  But I busted out a bit of a wall & narrow entry between the hall and eating area, so I had to continue with the ceiling the rest of the way to the front door.

ANYWAYS, my guy said that when his dad worked with him, his dad would do the quotes.  People would get their estimate of $10,000 for demo to completion.  When people started asking "how much would it cost if I did *this part of the work*?", the answer was usually $12,000...   I'm sure it was usually semi-serious, but I suspect that some "less handy" home owners just cause more work to be generated by trying to prep themselves.

I would have done some of the demo if I wasn't so busy with work myself...  Demo is fun, if you can overlook everything behind whatever it is you're busting out.

Oh - and our subfloor was screwed down with drywall screws...  Better than nails, barely.

[Greatwhite]

The stairs look good too.  Is the dark wood part stained?  

Sorry - missed answering this earlier..

It's latex paint (unfortunately)... 23 year old oak doesn't take the stain very well.  The painter I had stripped one section of the hand rail and then went to test the stain (the brand HE recommended) and said that it was not going to be as dark as we want.  So I told him that the best stuff to use is the polyshades tinted varathane... He disagreed, and 'highly recommended' using paint to get it as dark as we wanted.

I really should have stuck to my idea, because the end result is a plastic-looking hand rail with what appears to be fake, embossed wood grain.

I have some acrylic urethane that is intended to go over latex paint.  Once we've painted the walls (and touched up spots on the hand rail), I'm going to give it a couple clear coats to get the nice sheen.  I'm sure it'll be OK after that.

[Nerine]

yay for renos It is looking great!!!

We're also going to be doing our kitchen! We finished up a lot of other areas in our house, and it's on to the kitchen...the oak is in good condition, but the kitchen just doesn't fit our lifestyle!!! So we're gonna sell EVERYTHING in it (except appliances) and use the $$ to go towards our new kitchen Your kitchen renos have me excited to get a move on with ours!!!!

[sylros]

Actually what we did with all contractors is get a quote for the entire work and have them breakdown each task. We then sat down with them and since everything was itemized told them which ones we were going to do but made sure we had their requirements in hand so they were indeed able to do their part. They had to be willing because there are kitchen companies that want to do the whole thing.

For example, cabinet install is minimum $1500 that's without crown molding...the hardwood refinishing was at least $3.50 per sf and we had 350, which in their minds doesn't even qualify for a bulk discount. 

So that was my trick! Plus having done many many renos, I had a pretty good idea what the running rate was. So far, we must have saved well over $5000, and that's not counting the sales we got on the appliances but they're expensive anyway.

[Greatwhite]

Yeah... I would have loved to pick and chose things that I would do, and what the contractor would.  He DID ask with every job "do YOU want to do that, or me?" ie/ demo of the kitchen and disposal of the old junk, removal of the old tile, etc.  I also was welcome to have an actual flooring company do the floor if I wanted....

But I figured a couple things.. 1) I just finished a LONG reno on my old house, and really didn't want to get into it again - not even a little bit. 2) it would be much easier to schedule the reno if it was just one guy doing everything.  (I did get the quote for tile installation separate from the kitchen work, explaining that it was part of a second budget -- but it was $2000 less than the flooring guys)

Oh - also, if I was doing the installation of the cabinets and/or tile -- I would see EVERY little thing I did wrong.. Slight misalignment of something, or a scratch - and I'd be liable for that boo-boo.  BUT I would tell myself "meh, it's good enough" and then stare at that mistake for years.  At least a pro has done a job like this 100 times, and knows the right way to do things.

Prepping the floor can be tricky for tile, so I left that to them too.

Demo is another story, of course.  You can be as messy as you want... BUT, we were able to pass all the cabinets (and there were ALOT of them) off to someone who was going to put them to good use, through the contractor.  They were carefully removed, and gone in the same day.

There will be plenty of opportunity with this house to do renos myself, but I really like the guy we hired, so perhaps I'll have him back to do them.

[Greatwhite]

Wow... The counter top came today, and everything that has been sitting limbo waiting for counters just got done!  All that's left is the backsplash, some nice pendant lights and range hood... Oh, and crown moulding...

[Stussi613]

Wow, dream kitchen right there!

(Well except my dream kitchen has a gas stove in it)

[RedFish]

Wow wow wow!  Gorgeous kitchen!

[Greatwhite]

Wow, dream kitchen right there!

(Well except my dream kitchen has a gas stove in it)

We were going to toss a gas stove in, but then we figured induction was more efficient -- and safer for everyone.  I boiled a pot of water in under 90 seconds yesterday -- with my hand ON the cooktop about 4 inches from the pot.  When the water was boiling, I changed the temperature on the burner down to a simmer - and the boiling stopped immediately.  Turned it back up - and it boiled again immediately.

Our old stove took FOREVER to adjust its temperature.

[Stussi613]

We were going to toss a gas stove in, but then we figured induction was more efficient -- and safer for everyone.  I boiled a pot of water in under 90 seconds yesterday -- with my hand ON the cooktop about 4 inches from the pot.  When the water was boiling, I changed the temperature on the burner down to a simmer - and the boiling stopped immediately.  Turned it back up - and it boiled again immediately.

Our old stove took FOREVER to adjust its temperature.

Hey, no criticism from me on your choice of induction 

I'm merely stating that as a former chef my personal dream kitchen would look very much like yours with a gas stove instead...it's a compliment!!

[Hookup]

sexy looking updates.... not showing my wife the closet organizer.... haha..

[ajm1961]

Hey, is this an Minto Oakview model? Looks just like mine... might borrow some of your reno ideas!
Are you in Orleans?

[Greatwhite]

Hey, is this an Minto Oakview model? Looks just like mine... might borrow some of your reno ideas!
Are you in Orleans?

Not Minto.. It's umm... Sunridge?  I couldn't tell you the model...  Yes to Orleans.

[Greatwhite]

Hey, no criticism from me on your choice of induction 

I'm merely stating that as a former chef my personal dream kitchen would look very much like yours with a gas stove instead...it's a compliment!!

Oh, I understand completely.  I honestly always envisioned a gas cooktop too.   Something about having the ability to grill a "perfect" steak in the kitchen always intrigued me.

[Greatwhite]

Finally finished the Reno. We are waiting on a couple doors for above the bar to have glass put in them, but everything else is complete!

[Greatwhite]

Speaking of the bar...

[delslo]

Speaking of the bar...

Your Wine cooler looks like a frag rack....it could/should be!!! lol

[Fishnut]

That kitchen looks amazing!!!  You guys must be so happy with it!

My renos are going to have to wait until the fall.  I had the same guy come over to do a quote for finishing our basement and it seems we were not as financially ready to have work done as I thought.  That was a real bummer. 

I could either cancel my new pond (that is desperately needed by my fish, presently being designed and scheduled to start in march) and do the basement OR beef up the savings and have the basement reno start later in the year.  It was one of those moments that I did not like our "save it up instead of pay it off" policy!  I was so excited to be able to use the basement again!!  Oh well.  I can wait a few more months.

I like how all these things were itemized for you sylros.  I got a package deal quote.  We have NO intention of doing any of the work ourselves but it would be nice to see how much of our money is budgeted to what items, etc. 

[Greatwhite]

Well.. It's been a year since posting in my house reno "build thread".  Lots has been done here since the kitchen - in spite of my desire to take a break from all the work.

We landscaped the back yard.  There was NOTHING there but one concrete step followed by an 18" drop to muddy clay.  I didn't even have anywhere "good" to put my BBQ, which was just plain WRONG.  I now have a 20x25 stone patio with a walkway around to the gate.

[Greatwhite]

After that was all done, I said "that's it! taking a break now!!"... Then we decided that our family room, which is just off the nice new kitchen, looked bad.  It was the only room left in the house with the original carpet, since we intended to put hardwood at some point.  The old wood fireplace was virtually unusable (or at least I didn't LIKE to use it) because it was so shallow that any fire in it resulted in smoke throughout the house for the first 30 minutes.

SO... out with the old fireplace, and in with a nice new gas one and built in cabinets around.

We are currently in a little redesign phase with the cabinets because it turns out that having them protrude 17" past the tv, which is almost right against them causes any "non-prime seat" to cut off part of the TV from view.  Plus - they just "feel" too big in there.  They look great from the kitchen though!

(no, the cabinet doors are not in the after picture.. They were out getting glass put in them and I haven't taken pictures after they were put on...)

[Greatwhite]

The family room job wrapped up just before christmas, and I said "that's it - done renos for a while!"  Then the wife decided that she wanted me to build her a gym in our completely unfinished basement.

Well, if I am planning out a gym, I need to plan out the whole basement -- right?  So I drew up my basement plans, including a 25x27 rec room (which will mostly likely house my aquarium some day), a gym that is 12x22, a play area for the kids, a powder room - and a large unfinished area for a workshop.

With everything drawn up, I've already started construction of the gym corner.  I put down Dri-Core subfloor panels (which are awesome to work with) and put up 1" foam insulation on the walls.  Next will be framing, wiring, MORE insulation, and drywall.  The floor will be covered with 3/4" rubber mat that comes in 4x6 foot pieces.  Each mat weights 100lbs, is awkward as heck, and leaves nice marks everywhere it rubs.  They are currently in my garage, waiting for more construction to be done before going downstairs.  I'm not looking forward to that job.

After the gym is done, I will gradually work my way around to insulate and frame the rest of the living space down there.  Since I have 5 bedrooms upstairs, there's really no need for another in the basement, so it's all "fun space".

[ajm1961]

Like the cabinets in the family room! Did you build them yourself?
And who did you hire for the fireplace insert?
The room is very similar to ours. We still have the wood fireplace as well.
Thanks for posting - cheers!

[sas]

Nice great update!
I have the same 3/4" rubber mats that comes in 4x6 foot pieces, but I use them in  my horse stalls. They're not that hard to deal with although I did destroy hubbies circular saw when I cut them to fit .

[Greatwhite]

The cabinets were ordered from the same place as our kitchen ones for consistency.

The fireplace is from Romantic fireplaces in Orleans. I built out the wall for it to go in and did the hardwood though.

[Greatwhite]

Oops. TApatalk did a double post.