To sell or to buy, that is the question

[babblefish1960]

Does anyone recall the fun experiment of adding karma and smiting, of course you do, it was an interesting development that was quite short-lived.

I bring this up as a reference to a growing concern on the website about how to tell if you're dealing with an honest horse trader or an elixir peddler.

Naturally, if you deal with a number of different sellers and buyers, you begin to see repeat patterns in each person. We don't all have that much time however nor does everyone wish to take chances with unknowns all the time.

This subject is touched upon lightly in the classified section titled "rating buyers/sellers".

The issues we have all experienced or would like to avoid experiencing is a list I've made here for your perusal.

1. Not answering pm's; this is frustrating for people hoping to discover they have been heard, everyone likes timely answers. If you are selling something, hang around and check your pm's, you might actually sell something.

2. Making arrangements to meet and not following through or contacting to make a change; this one sits on both ends of the spectrum, I know I have waited hours for people who just never get back to me, by the same token, if you're going to be late, or need to reschedule, it is polite to make new arrangements.

3. Misleading advertising; this one is a toughy, showing up with visions in your head of something gently used in pristine condition to find something horrible, is a frightening deceit. When you go to get the nearly new tank, and it has bashed edges or even cracks, that is unkind.

4. Warranty expectations; everything sold here is used generally, and caveat emptor, don't harass the seller if after a month, you are unhappy with your purchase.

5. I saw it first!; This one bears remembering, first in line of pm's does in no way guarantee a purchase, just as everyone has the right to choose to sell to an individual or not, equally true, is the prospect of purchase, you don't "have" to buy it if it isn't what you thought it was. If you show up at the place of purchase and the item is not as it was advertised, you don't have to purchase it.

6. This is not eBay; bumping ads incessantly and making loud screaming titles are not friendly, it is kind of pushy, and really tiresome. Bump only when your ad has fallen off of the page, it gets annoying otherwise.

7.  Flooding; This is a new one really, if you have 20 items for sale, don't make 20 posts, collate them into one or two ads, put a description in the title, and make sure you place a FS:, LF:, FT: or FF: to make it easier to search the ads.  Then you aren't unduly pushing other people's ads of the page.

I invite everyone to share their experiences as a buyer or a seller, good and bad, without naming names, to make constructive comments on the above and suggest points that may have been missed. Vent your spleen or lavish anonymous accolades

[beowulf]

I got one, make sure you give a person the right apartment number    Hey Babble!!

[babblefish1960]

Now, now, no naming names, though I confess the apartment number and the ring number were very wrong, it was a miracle you found me. I guess I was having a blonde moment, or had finally lost my mind.

But that brings up another thing, give clear directions, some of us are directionless, for example, when leaving Montreal after a giant auction, instead of heading to Ottawa, I drove several of us to some reserve just before the border to New York, so give good directions.

[Mettle]

I would like to name myself, but it does lead somewhere... As of late I have been insanely busy and was unable to keep up properly with PM's as good as I would have liked. And I also was unable to arrange a time to meet people on a couple of occassions. I always felt really bad and in general the items I wanted to buy were ones that I had been looking out for or that I was genuinely interested in. But alas was unable to get. For the most part the other party was understanding - but it's hard for a full time worker/full time student to get across town to check something out, let alone buy it, especially when he doesn't have a car of his own.

Also. Lowballers of a certain shade. I appreciate the fact that people are trying to get a deal. That's fine. I see it every day of the week at my job. People wanting to pay less for their consumer electronics and attempting to haggle - great. But please don't tell me my price is over the top and that I will 'never sell it' at my asking price as a response when I say I won't move $100 on my sale price. It's just rude. Bargaining is a two way street and you're not doing me 'a favour' by offering me $100 when I'm asking $200... I'd rather keep the item and sell it another day, to be honest. Or by that point I may have decided to use it. Either/or. Getting rude with me though just makes me NOT want to sell it to you for any price and not deal with you for any future sales, either.

[BigDaddy]

I'll add one thing to babble's list:

Selling fish in poor condition... if you either can't properly care for a fish, or for whatever reasons the fish is in less than stellar health, either cure the fish prior to sale, or advise the seller of the condition of the fish and adjust the price accordingly.  I'm sure it is very frustration to spend X dollars on a fish, only to have to spend XXX in mediations to get the thing back to health again.

[succinctfish]

I'd like to add something to #6, the issue of bumping, covert bumping, where someone pretends to respond to a pm by stating it, even though no one posted in the thread that they sent one, or "updating" their thread every time it slips from the top position on the page.  It's a little underhanded and irritating.  I understand if you have new useful info to add, but to do it simply to keep an ad prominent at the expense of other posters is not very friendly.  Bump when when it falls off the page, common courtesy.

On another note, Kudos to those who put in clear photos and descriptions so that we all don't have to ask a million questions.  I love the ruler some folks use to show just how big things are, I know that I have shown up for something I thought was bigger than it was simply because there was no frame of reference in the photo.  It wasn't the end of the world, but it's always nice to have an accurate description.

[Quatro]

I like it when people give their location when selling something.  I don't mean a full address just a general area.  Me, I'm Mike in West Ottawa near Algonquin. 

[pegasus]

I like it when a buyer ask for a discount on a big $20 sale after your made him six bags out of multiple tanks and then ask if I would also deliver.

But the one I like the most his the ones that sends me multiple pm or reply asking if I sell a particular SA. 

[lucky777]

I have to note, thats all deals I've had made through website, have went through without a hitch.

I unfortunately I was the one who ran behind schedule yesterday and had to call and reschedule for a few hours later to drop something off. 

[luffs]

I would like to add to this, as a new buyer... I like seeing pictures of whats for sale, I don't always know the name or the color or the size of the fish the seller has.

and on that note, Ottawa is very strange place when it comes to finding a place, for example driving straight on Clyde and all the sudden it turns into marivel!!!!1  very confusing, so i do ask if the seller can deliver even if I'm only buying $20 or $50.00 worth of stuff/fish most people don't mind doing some thing nice.

And from what i have experienced on this site most of the people you talk to or deal with are honest and easy going people... and all i can say is THANK YOU TO EVERY ONE ON THIS SITE FOR MAKING THIS SITE A FUN AND RELAXED PLACE TO SHOP...

[succinctfish]

Here's a classic, buy something from someone on the site at a great deal, and then turn around immediately and sell it at a huge profit.  Smiteable in the extreme.

[sas]

Here's a classic, buy something from someone on the site at a great deal, and then turn around immediately and sell it at a huge profit.  Smiteable in the extreme.

Yes have to agree, there's definitely something wrong with that. Personally I like when location is given out, being from out of town you never know where you're going fishing . There is one thing that really irks me and that is other people chiming in with their snide remarks in the post, when they are not even buying! What's with that? If you're not in the market stifle yourself On the other hand I have to say that I've bought many items on this site and all transactions went wonderfully. Cheers again for running a great site

[bitterman]

Here's a classic, buy something from someone on the site at a great deal, and then turn around immediately and sell it at a huge profit.  Smiteable in the extreme.

This is happening yet again today 500% markup on something is plain robbery!!!!!! It makes both the seller and purchaser unhappy, so buyer and sellers be ware! ( Right Art  )

[artw]

This is happening yet again today 500% markup on something is plain robbery!!!!!! It makes both the seller and purchaser unhappy, so buyer and sellers be ware! ( Right Art  )

meh, doesn't matter to me.  I got the jungle val as a gift from PaleoFishGirl a few months ago, so I felt guilty even asking for money for it in the first place.    I always either give my plants away to people or sell them for an insanely low price. I am not in this hobby to make money, thats for sure.

[new_hobby]

meh, doesn't matter to me.  I got the jungle val as a gift from PaleoFishGirl a few months ago, so I felt guilty even asking for money for it in the first place.    I always either give my plants away to people or sell them for an insanely low price. I am not in this hobby to make money, thats for sure.

I am totally agree with Art, he sold plants for unimaginable low price and was very generous, I got more plants from him than I asked for... so I had to give some away to my neighbors last night because I could not put all the plants in my 3 tanks....

[UCGrafix]

I could add a long list of comments to the above list, as I have had bad experiences on many occasion with Nickel and Dimmers and No Shows, people who re-negotiate at the door eventhough the item is in the condition it was posted, sellers who turn around and sell the same item for more money even after there is an agreement to purchase at there asking price backed up with a schedule time and date 4 days later, then telling me that it's not a sale until the item is picked up, and the sellers has the option to ask for more money because they can get more etc ...

Sadly, I have learn to simply stay away from some folks, so have other members  

The only way you could set up a fair " karma and smiting " system, is to use the Ebay Positive / Neutral / Negative feedback system, where a feedback could be left, and a responce option could be available.
Any other will result in building bad blood on the Forum.

I show up at all my scheduled appointments with the cash in hand, I expect the same from other people, it's a question of being respectfull toward others.

[beowulf]

I would be more worried about creating bad blood with a rating system.

[darkdep]

Well, we tried with the karma thing many remember, but it didn't work well as it was a "whole forum" thing.  It was abused.

[babblefish1960]

This takes us to another point, the OVAS club website is not eBay, we are not actually sales centric, the ideal purpose of the website is to communicate between meetings about fish, the expansion of our knowledge base about fish, the care and breeding of fish and the sharing of our, well...fish.

Though it may feel at times that there are some bad actors out there taking advantage of people, the period in which we did have a karma system got out of hand and hurt some feelings. I'm afraid to say that after looking through eBay for some time, there are a lot of hurt feelings on their website too. Here it would be amplified by the fact that we often know each other to see each other, clearly a great deal more intimate than eBay.

To quote Jack Nicholson as the President of the United States in "Mars Attacks", "if only we could just learn to get along".

[s0me]

What about adding a new forum called "Good Joes List"? This would allow users who have sold/purchased or sold equipment, fish etc... to have an area where buyers and sellers can post comments about the seller/buyer. Again, this may create some "bad blood" but would be value added.

My $0.02