Plant Help

[101DalmatianMollies]

Hey Folks,

So I bought some 1-2-grow pots - and one in particular I think I'm over my head with - http://tropica.com/en/plants/plantdetails/Hemianthuscallitrichoides'Cuba'(048BTC)/4478

The Hemianthus. I'm trying to grow them, but I don't think I'm giving it enough of what it needs. They haven't spread any since I bought them, in fact a few of the clippings have shrunk away and disappeared (died).

Any tips without diving into the world of CO2?

Thanks! I may have to find a different low growing carpet plant if my conditions just aren't right for this one. At the moment can't afford to upgrade my lighting system.

Thanks!

[exv152]

The Hemianthus. I'm trying to grow them, but I don't think I'm giving it enough of what it needs. They haven't spread any since I bought them, in fact a few of the clippings have shrunk away and disappeared (died).

Any tips without diving into the world of CO2?

Thanks! I may have to find a different low growing carpet plant if my conditions just aren't right for this one. At the moment can't afford to upgrade my lighting system.

I've grown HC a few times and I found it does best with tons of co2, at least medium light, and ferts. I never had any success growing it without co2 unless you grow it emersed.

[101DalmatianMollies]

Ah ok. I have the medium light and the fertilizer, but not the CO2. So perhaps not the best choice for my tank.

I'm completely new to the world of CO2. Not sure how I'd begin to approach it.

[exv152]

If you fill a rubbermaid container with top soil, and plant the HC in there, spray the soil to make it damp, and put the lid on, then place it under a good light source, it will grow like crazy.

[charlie]

You have received good advice so far.
What lighting do you have and any other details of your tank such as substrate, size of tank, perhaps a picture?
Regards

[neon1423]

You have received good advice so far.
What lighting do you have and any other details of your tank such as substrate, size of tank, perhaps a picture?
Regards

Depending on those details, there are lots of options for CO2 and it isn't as scary as you think.

[101DalmatianMollies]

Depending on those details, there are lots of options for CO2 and it isn't as scary as you think.

So that's what they look like right now - not very healthy. I went out and bought the API CO2 booster and have done two doses since I bought it (with 24 hours in between)

Tank size: 33 gal
Lighting: fluorescent 2 bulbs at 17W each one full spec, one plant
Substrate: gravel.
Adding in 1ml flourish daily, and have 3 root tabs in the gravel.

Thank you! I think theses guys are probably too far gone, I want to try again, but want to make sure I have everything I need.

[charlie]

In short your tank conditions is not conducive to growing HC- Light & substrate is way below requirements for this plant.
This would apply to most plants outside of the very undemanding plants, Crypts, Java Fern , anubias etc.
Regards

[rivermuse]

If you are looking for a carpeting plant and do not want to invest in expensive lights, Pearl Weed aka Baby Tears (NOT dwarf baby tears) is the way to go. However, I'm not sure it will work out in gravel. I have seen this grow even in low-medium lighting. (I have a mix of gravel and fluorite)  If you want to try, I can give bunch of clippings for free, just PM me.

[exv152]

I find HM (hemianthus micranthemoides aka pearl weed) to grow leggy and not bushy in low light/co2. If you're looking for a ground cover that does really well without co2, I'd recommend one of these, both of which are super easy to grow and they stay small (especially the M.crenata) with med light and no co2. Both are sold in the 1-2 grow pots by tropica.

http://tropica.com/en/plants/plantdetails/Marsileacrenata(010BTC)/4762

http://tropica.com/en/plants/plantdetails/Marsileahirsuta(010TC)/4428

[101DalmatianMollies]

I find HM (hemianthus micranthemoides aka pearl weed) to grow leggy and not bushy in low light/co2. If you're looking for a ground cover that does really well without co2, I'd recommend one of these, both of which are super easy to grow and they stay small (especially the M.crenata) with med light and no co2. Both are sold in the 1-2 grow pots by tropica.

http://tropica.com/en/plants/plantdetails/Marsileacrenata(010BTC)/4762

http://tropica.com/en/plants/plantdetails/Marsileahirsuta(010TC)/4428

Thank you for the suggestions! I will look into them for sure! Especially the M.Crenata as it looks like a neat plant.

I will keep you updated! I really want a carpet for my fish. I've been going back and forth about what to do with the substrate, and changing out to just sand was too much I think, but I may have to change to a bit of a soil. Rebuilds are a little scary!

[lucius]

I have some marsilea crenata in my 75 gallon.  I can take a pic tomorrow.  It's not carpeting like in the Tropica links but it's coming along.

[101DalmatianMollies]

I have some marsilea crenata in my 75 gallon.  I can take a pic tomorrow.  It's not carpeting like in the Tropica links but it's coming along.

Yes please! I'd love to see how it's coming Thank you!

[aciport]

Agree with all the others, your tank will not support HC. Of the two Marsilea species, I would suggest M. hirsuta over M. crenata. It is a little less demanding of a plant, but the leaves are a bit larger.

The other suggestion I would have is to use fertilizer with the 1-2-Grows from the beginning of planting. As these plants are juvenile, about a month old, they don't have the nutrient reserves that the potted plants would have, for example. They need the boost from the start.

There will be new 1-2-Grows released in the very near future, so there will much more variety coming in the easy category. Some should start trickling in to stores now. Stay tuned...

[101DalmatianMollies]

Agree with all the others, your tank will not support HC. Of the two Marsilea species, I would suggest M. hirsuta over M. crenata. It is a little less demanding of a plant, but the leaves are a bit larger.

The other suggestion I would have is to use fertilizer with the 1-2-Grows from the beginning of planting. As these plants are juvenile, about a month old, they don't have the nutrient reserves that the potted plants would have, for example. They need the boost from the start.

There will be new 1-2-Grows released in the very near future, so there will much more variety coming in the easy category. Some should start trickling in to stores now. Stay tuned...

I love the insider vibe I'm getting from your post I will have to look into the M. hirsuta. Does anyone know where I can get it?

In regards to CO2 - I think in order to get the planted tank I'm looking for, I may need to begin investigating. What do you experienced planters recommend?

Thank you!!

[daworldisblack]

In regards to CO2 - I think in order to get the planted tank I'm looking for, I may need to begin investigating. What do you experienced planters recommend?

Pressurized CO2 all the way! Don't even think about DIY yeast concoctions haha. Get a nice regulator and a good sized co2 tank and you're set.

[lucius]

Here are my crenata plants.  I bought two Tropica pots and planted them a few inches apart.  They are in my 75 gallon with liquid CO2, liquid ferts and medium light.

[charlie]

Pressurized CO2 all the way! Don't even think about DIY yeast concoctions haha. Get a nice regulator and a good sized co2 tank and you're set.

I could not agree more.
As someone who took the route of trying the cheap approach, coke bottles, sugar & yeast to the cheap  &  expensive off pthe shelf regulator units, it is not worth the time ,money & results.
Don't get me wrong they are some decent offerings out there.
You don't need to spend mega dollars but a bit more than the sub standard offerings available by some manufacturers.

[neon1423]

Pressurized CO2 all the way! Don't even think about DIY yeast concoctions haha. Get a nice regulator and a good sized co2 tank and you're set.

Yeah I'm going to support this as well. Jason at Critter Jungle has a good variety of CO2 options and a ton of knowledge to help get you started.

[TLe041]

CO2 will greatly help, but you will still need to change to a substrate that's geared for plants if you're looking to grow a carpet. They don't do well in gravel.

[exv152]

Check out these co2 regulators. It's a miniature dual stage, which means it controls the pressure in two stages making delivery consistent, and you don't get the end of tank dump. If I needed to replace one of mine, I wouldn't hesitate to try one of these. No one locally carries DUAL STAGE regulators (not to be confused with dual guage).

http://www.co2art.co.uk/collections/dual-stage-regulators/products/aquarium-co2-dual-stage-regulator-and-solenoid-magnetic-valve-smc-valve

If you ever need any help with co2, there's always a handful of experienced guys willing to help on this forum.

[George2]

Check out these co2 regulators. It's a miniature dual stage, which means it controls the pressure in two stages making delivery consistent, and you don't get the end of tank dump. If I needed to replace one of mine, I wouldn't hesitate to try one of these. No one locally carries DUAL STAGE regulators (not to be confused with dual guage).

I've always wondered about the "end of stage" dump. I am using a paint-ball adapter on my CO2 regulator. Does this affect whether the end-of-tank dump occurs? How long does the end-of-tank dump usually last for? I have never observed it. If I turn up the amount of CO2 injected into my aquarium, the only thing that happens is that I get larger bubbles emitted from my diffuser, which shoot up to the surface faster. I don't actually see an increase in CO2 in the water after a certain point. This is why I wonder about the end-of-tank dump.

There has not been much discussion about paint ball CO2 tanks. I know they are more expensive to fill in the long run but they are convenient to deal with.  I have two tanks which I swap out every 3-4 months. When one is empty, I swap in the full one and then bring the empty one to Canadian Tire to be filled up.  :)

[exv152]

I've always wondered about the "end of stage" dump. I am using a paint-ball adapter on my CO2 regulator. Does this affect whether the end-of-tank dump occurs? How long does the end-of-tank dump usually last for? I have never observed it. If I turn up the amount of CO2 injected into my aquarium, the only thing that happens is that I get larger bubbles emitted from my diffuser, which shoot up to the surface faster. I don't actually see an increase in CO2 in the water after a certain point. This is why I wonder about the end-of-tank dump.

There has not been much discussion about paint ball CO2 tanks. I know they are more expensive to fill in the long run but they are convenient to deal with.  I have two tanks which I swap out every 3-4 months. When one is empty, I swap in the full one and then bring the empty one to Canadian Tire to be filled up.  

End of tank dump (EOTD) is real. It's not a myth or a sales gimmick (I know you're not suggesting it). But it's happened to even the most experienced hobbyists. It's also not like turning up the needle valve to get more co2, and the bubbles get bigger, or come out faster in the bubble counter. EOTD is a sudden gush that makes your bubble counter look like the water is boiling in it. It makes sense if you know about gas and internal vs external cylinder pressure. When the liquid co2 gets all used up and only gas remains, the drop in pressure pushes all the gas out faster.  Most single stage regulators can't control this, and your safety valve (someone suggested this at the last plantaholics) won't prevent the EOTD. One way to prevent it is to swap the cylinder out when you see it begins to drop from 800psi on the gauge to like 600. Or you use a ph controller, or a dual stage.

[George2]

End of tank dump (EOTD) is real. It's not a myth or a sales gimmick (I know you're not suggesting it). But it's happened to even the most experienced hobbyists. It's also not like turning up the needle valve to get more co2, and the bubbles get bigger, or come out faster in the bubble counter. EOTD is a sudden gush that makes your bubble counter look like the water is boiling in it. It makes sense if you know about gas and internal vs external cylinder pressure. When the liquid co2 gets all used up and only gas remains, the drop in pressure pushes all the gas out faster.  Most single stage regulators can't control this, and your safety valve (someone suggested this at the last plantaholics) won't prevent the EOTD. One way to prevent it is to swap the cylinder out when you see it begins to drop from 800psi on the gauge to like 600. Or you use a ph controller, or a dual stage.

THanks for the explanation. Yeah, I wasn't implying that it did not exist. :) I was just trying to figure out why I have never seen it. Since I am using smaller painball tanks (24oz), I wonder if that has anything to do with it. What I have found is that the pressure gauge needle on my regulator barely changes at all, until maybe a few days before  the tank is empty. After that, I see a decrease in pressure until the bubbles stop.

[charlie]

Further to what exv152 stated, some may not experience it, for a multiple of reasons, equipment plays a big part,a well built single may never see it, while those that inject moderate CO2 is less affected as oppose to those that is injecting on the knife`s edge.

[wolfiewill]

I've had the misfortune to arrive at a friend's house just as an end of tank dump was occurring. There is nothing to see with respect to the gas itself. It's the fish behaviour that's the tell tale sign. The ones that were still alive were at the top of the tank gasping for air amid the others that had died. I did a couple of 50% water changes and saved about 30% of the fish. I was also at Rah's place one morning after which he'd experienced the same thing. In that case all his fish were gone. CO2 concentrations are in the hundreds of ppms using the pH v KH chart.
If you ask the guys are Davidson, they say that when the tank pressure gets to 500 psi there is no more liquid in the tank and it's time to change it. I find with smallish tanks that the pressure drops from about 600 to zero in a couple of weeks. And I run them down to zero often and had no EOTDs myself. And I have no dual stage CO2 kits. I check the tank pressure weekly and change them after they get to about 200 to 300 psi if I can.

[wolfiewill]

Here's a link to that situation with the EOTD I mentioned above:

http://ovas.ca/forum/index.php?topic=59308.0

[101DalmatianMollies]

This is awesome! I love all the discussion around CO2! I need to sit down and really read it all but I wanted you all to know I really appreciate your input!

Out of the following 3, as they probably all need upgrading in my tank and I've been looking at doing a tank overhaul, what would be the most important to start with? (as cost is an issue and I can't do all 3 at once)

Lights
addition of CO2 (so getting all the equipment)
Substrate

Thanks!

[exv152]

This is awesome! I love all the discussion around CO2! I need to sit down and really read it all but I wanted you all to know I really appreciate your input!

Out of the following 3, as they probably all need upgrading in my tank and I've been looking at doing a tank overhaul, what would be the most important to start with? (as cost is an issue and I can't do all 3 at once)

Lights
addition of CO2 (so getting all the equipment)
Substrate

Thanks!

I'd suggest substrate, then co2 and lighting last. If you upgrade your lighting before the co2 you'll just be inviting an algae farm.

[charlie]

This is awesome! I love all the discussion around CO2! I need to sit down and really read it all but I wanted you all to know I really appreciate your input!

Out of the following 3, as they probably all need upgrading in my tank and I've been looking at doing a tank overhaul, what would be the most important to start with? (as cost is an issue and I can't do all 3 at once)

Lights
addition of CO2 (so getting all the equipment)
Substrate

Thanks!

You are right in thinking all 3 needs to be upgraded, if you want to keep more demanding plants such as most carpeting plants.
Lighting is the director/commander of everything in the planted aquarium, it will dictate what plants you keep and the requirement of all nutrients including CO2.
That said they are ways & means of doing all 3 in an economical way if you have a lot of patience, example you can look at doing a dirted tank by far the cheapest way, but not something i would personally recommend for beginners , others may say different, do some reading on the Walstad style tank.
Depending on size & shape of tank , they are economical lighting options, as an example i have used T5 HO strips that come plug & play,and a reflector can be added, complete it may be in the &50.00 area.
Again depending on tank size there are several options for co2, for me personally a good quality single stage regulator & tank, there is also the paint ball set ups.
If you want to go into details of anything i suggested, feel free to contact me & i would be happy to helo in anyway i can.
I`m sure other plated tank hobbyist can chime in with some other ideas.
Regards

[101DalmatianMollies]

You are right in thinking all 3 needs to be upgraded, if you want to keep more demanding plants such as most carpeting plants.
Lighting is the director/commander of everything in the planted aquarium, it will dictate what plants you keep and the requirement of all nutrients including CO2.
That said they are ways & means of doing all 3 in an economical way if you have a lot of patience, example you can look at doing a dirted tank by far the cheapest way, but not something i would personally recommend for beginners , others may say different, do some reading on the Walstad style tank.
Depending on size & shape of tank , they are economical lighting options, as an example i have used T5 HO strips that come plug & play,and a reflector can be added, complete it may be in the &50.00 area.
Again depending on tank size there are several options for co2, for me personally a good quality single stage regulator & tank, there is also the paint ball set ups.
If you want to go into details of anything i suggested, feel free to contact me & i would be happy to helo in anyway i can.
I`m sure other plated tank hobbyist can chime in with some other ideas.
Regards

I saw the builds you sent me! They look awesome! I would love to discuss with you more definitely. I'll take a look about Walstad style tanks.

My concern with switching out substrate is how to do it, without disrupting the fish. But from what i've gathered from previous posts where I've broached this question, I can simply move them into a bucket with the filter, or a temporary tank with the filter and some substrate, and do the switch out. The current tank they are in is a 33 gallon. I have a backup 10 and 20 sitting empty in the basement so I can move them.

In terms of substrate that's good, what about this; http://www.fluvalaquatics.com/ca/fluval-products/aquarium-plant-care/plant-substrate/

Thanks!

[charlie]

I saw the builds you sent me! They look awesome! I would love to discuss with you more definitely. I'll take a look about Walstad style tanks.

My concern with switching out substrate is how to do it, without disrupting the fish. But from what i've gathered from previous posts where I've broached this question, I can simply move them into a bucket with the filter, or a temporary tank with the filter and some substrate, and do the switch out. The current tank they are in is a 33 gallon. I have a backup 10 and 20 sitting empty in the basement so I can move them.

In terms of substrate that's good, what about this; http://www.fluvalaquatics.com/ca/fluval-products/aquarium-plant-care/plant-substrate/

Thanks!

While some hold the opinion it`s substandard , i think it`s good certainly not the best but in Ottawa we are blessed with soft water, which lends it self nicely to planted tanks & as such less dependent on the best substrate 
I personally have used it in my 79 gallon tank since 2011 with no regrets.
http://ovas.ca/forum/index.php?topic=52173.0
Regards