Changes to Classified Ads board

[markw]

To reply to all the "googlers" out there who believe I manipulated the numbers, here's the scoop. I don't google, I used CAOAC; whom we are subscribed members of. They list 17 clubs that have websites. The breakdown is as follows;
Club              classified,            response,        condition
Edmonton           yes                      no
Winnipeg             none                    none
Brant Aquarium     yes                     yes
Calgary               yes                      n/a          only paid members
                                                                of Calgary or other
                                                                CAOAC club. YAHOO
                                                                site.
OVAS                  yes                     no
Forest City Pond    yes                     no         paid members only
East Coast            yes                    yes
Durham                 yes                    yes
TFCEC                  none                   none
Toronto Willowdale  none                   none
Saskatoon             none                   none
Sarnia                   none                   none
Regina                   yes                    yes
Peel Region            none                   none
London                  yes                     yes
Hamilton                none                   none

Total                   9 yes, 7 no         5 yes, 11 no
                           56% have           31% allow
My quote from before;
Most Aquarium societies, either don't have a classified section in their forum, or they have deleted the feedback section as well.

I think these stats shown together reflect the idea of my comment.

[gauthier613]

Ovas should be the leaders.  More Options the better     But it's not my website so I'll take what I can get.

[Hookup]

The Ottawa Valley Aquarium Society (OVAS) is a non-profit, educational, and recreational organization. It has four main objectives:
    * to further the study of all forms of aquatic life, 
    * to promote interest, exchange ideas, and distribute information concerning the hobby, 
    * to encourage breeding and displaying of aquatic life, 
    * and to work toward the conservation of endangered species.

Nuf Said right?

[Brine]

Thanks for the reminder Hookup
I kind of got lost there for a while.

[cichlidicted]

Thank you mike for the offer .... actually i've been thinking bout becoming a member for a while... but am just lazy... But i'll do it soon. Promise.

I see this argument going no where. the admin staff are just convinced bout the change (it might be good and it mght be not) time will ony show. As one of the memebrs said, whatever is chosen, the other half will not like it.

So, speaking for myself only. I do not like the recent changes and there's nothing i can do about it. I can stay here talk all day, but then, the decision is already made.

Goodluck

[charlie]

To reply to all the "googlers" out there who believe I manipulated the numbers, here's the scoop. I don't google, I used CAOAC; whom we are subscribed members of. They list 17 clubs that have websites. The breakdown is as follows;
Club              classified,            response,        condition
Edmonton           yes                      no
Winnipeg             none                    none
Brant Aquarium     yes                     yes
Calgary               yes                      n/a          only paid members
                                                                of Calgary or other
                                                                CAOAC club. YAHOO
                                                                site.
OVAS                  yes                     no
Forest City Pond    yes                     no         paid members only
East Coast            yes                    yes
Durham                 yes                    yes
TFCEC                  none                   none
Toronto Willowdale  none                   none
Saskatoon             none                   none
Sarnia                   none                   none
Regina                   yes                    yes
Peel Region            none                   none
London                  yes                     yes
Hamilton                none                   none

Total                   9 yes, 7 no         5 yes, 11 no
                           56% have           31% allow
My quote from before;
Most Aquarium societies, either don't have a classified section in their forum, or they have deleted the feedback section as well.

I think these stats shown together reflect the idea of my comment.

All these clubs share the same mandate .

The Ottawa Valley Aquarium Society (OVAS) is a non-profit, educational, and recreational organization. It has four main objectives:
    * to further the study of all forms of aquatic life, 
    * to promote interest, exchange ideas, and distribute information concerning the hobby, 
    * to encourage breeding and displaying of aquatic life, 
    * and to work toward the conservation of endangered species.

This rule quoted  is nothing new & has been there for the longest while

•If you wish to comment that the asking price for an item is too high do not do it in the classified ad, contact the vendor by PM or email.  If you wish to start a discussion about how much a used -insert item name here- would or should sell for please do it in the General Discussions forum.

[FocusFin]

Thank you mike for the offer .... actually i've been thinking bout becoming a member for a while... but am just lazy... But i'll do it soon. Promise.

The offer is genuine and open-ended, when you're ready just pm the Treasurer and quote my offer, they'll take care of the rest. I know the club would love to have you.

[audioslave_36]

I see this argument going no where. the admin staff are just convinced bout the change (it might be good and it mght be not) time will ony show. As one of the memebrs said, whatever is chosen, the other half will not like it.

So, speaking for myself only. I do not like the recent changes and there's nothing i can do about it. I can stay here talk all day, but then, the decision is already made.

Goodluck

I have to agree, this thread was a waste of time, and "KEYBOARD USE" as the exec has made their choice.

[Saltcreep]

....... But note, only OVAS members can vote, and we act in what we think is the best interest of OVAS members, no one else...... 

Grrrr. I choose to be a, hopefully good-standing, registered member of the Forum because I can usually get what I'm looking for from the Forum(s) and, sometimes contribute something useful. I choose not to be a member of OVAS because, a) it's allowed, and b), mostly because I never remembered to use the darn card anyway I saw my benefit as an OVAS member to be minimal; I just don't do meetings and get-togethers. The $20 is chicken-feed and not an issue.

That statement just reinforces my feelings of being second-class. For everyone else that wanted to say that, you're welcome.

[garnpet]

Ok, my 2 cents worth - even though I usually stay out of discussions like this one.

One point that seems to be forgotten here is that OVAS in NOT only the forum.  The Exec are elected to run the club, and the forum is only one part of this club. 

For some the forum is all they know of the club; either because of distance, time constraints or other reasons.  And that is fine, everyone is free to join and participate in the discussions.

Forum users who are not OVAS members are NOT second-class.  However the Exec when making decisions regarding the club (and in extension the forum) have to do so in regards to the club itself and its members as a priority.  That is not to say that non-OVAS members are completely forgotten in our discussions - in fact some of the most heated have centered around this issue.  We are elected by the member and are accountable to the members.  Plain and simple. 

[FocusFin]

One point that seems to be forgotten here is that OVAS in NOT only the forum.  The Exec are elected to run the club, and the forum is only one part of this club. 

This is often overlooked, I think.

There was a time when the only way you participated in a club was regularly scheduled meetings, newsletters and phonecalls.

Today, the emphasis has shifted to the forums with the club being secondary which is normal and probably beneficial to the overall prosperity of the club, but it still is a club first and foremost and it still is supported by the members/sponsors and run by the elected representatives on behalf of the members.

It's my understanding also that the vendors are significant financial contributors to the forum/club but derive no benefit from the classified section of the forum.

BTW I never remember to bring my OVAS card when I'm shopping but if my $20.00 helps run this site and the club it's a bargain to me.

[charlie]

This is often overlooked, I think.

There was a time when the only way you participated in a club was regularly scheduled meetings, newsletters and phonecalls.

Today, the emphasis has shifted to the forums with the club being secondary which is normal and probably beneficial to the overall prosperity of the club, but it still is a club first and foremost and it still is supported by the members/sponsors and run by the elected representatives on behalf of the members.

It's my understanding also that the vendors are significant financial contributors to the forum/club but derive no benefit from the classified section of the forum.

BTW I never remember to bring my OVAS card when I'm shopping but if my $20.00 helps run this site and the club it's a bargain to me.

Have to agree there, overlook might be a understatement, it is shocking how many folks on here for quite somtime have no idea of the operations of the club or membership, maybe as a club we need to find more ways to make that known.

[RoxyDog]

That statement just reinforces my feelings of being second-class. For everyone else that wanted to say that, you're welcome.

One, I made that remark in regards to VOTING FOR THE EXECUTIVE, not on voting for everything.  Only OVAS members get to vote for those who run their club, that they pay to join.  That seems plenty reasonable to me?  Do we get to vote in the US elections when we are not part of the US?  

Two, I shouldn't have said "no one else" b/c as garnpet said, the OVAS members are a priority, but we do take every who participates in this forum into consideration.  If no one believes that they are sorely mistaken.

Three, you say you feel second-class, but if you were a paying member, would you not expect to be treated "better" or "have priority" over those who don't want to/choose not to/can't pay their $20 to support our club?  Doesn't paying and joining a club lead one to expect that club to work in their best interests?  Am I crazy here?

Four, I've honestly had enough with defending myself for decisions we've tried to make for the club.  I've said time and again that we do the best we can, we're volunteers, etc.  But so often I still have to listen to people put down OVAS/the forum and/or it's Exec.  So, you may feel second-class, well I feel underappreciated (not by ALL of you out there!) and disrespected.  Such is life.  I think it's time I took a break from threads such as these.  

[FocusFin]

 I think it's time I took a break from threads such as these.  

Take cover lads, she's gonna



Considering you announced you wouldn't be running again and then changed your mind (I suspect because no one was coming forward) your frustration is well placed.


Edit: thought you could use a laugh.

[Hookup]

There's always an ebb and flow to all groups and organizations.  Volunteer organization are even more susceptible to these problems because of many factors.  Organizers feel under appreciated and non-organizers want to have their opinions heard...

I saw the elections/nominations posting and thought it was a great thing that many of the current executive was stepping down. (No offense intended, its good for people who've been at things for a while to step back and take a breather, NOT that it was time for a change)...  However, not enough people were stepping up, myself included, so things evolved...

I would only suggest that the best way for any organization to survive is to listen to the feedback and opinions of the members/community, and make executive decisions, communicate their value, educate where possible, then let the chips fall where they may.  The classified ad's are a perfect example of how that works.

Honestly, anyone that has, or is going to leave OVAS because of the change to the classified ad's.. (you can fillin the blank)...

I personally applaud the management decision, even thought I do not like it, for the direction that was taken... Now it's easy to know what OVAS Forums provide and do not provide... (ok, this is a small thing, but isn't that the point... and honestly, other than allowing this thread to continue, the decision is made... it's over, if you do not like it... i guess 'too bad'... )

I anxiously await making OVAS a better place on-line, cause I believe the web-based side of the club has a lot more to offer than it currently does... again, awaiting executive direction and decision... you guys are supported more than you think.

[mseguin]

Just a few points:

#1 yes there is an expectation of a certain amount of work that comes with any position or office, but that does not mean that the webmaster is not allowed to try and make his job more efficient. One of the things we changed in the last few years was the moderation, making so that in large part, the site was user moderated. (via the report post button). This has allowed club members to greatly shape the direction forum discussions would take, and allowed the webmaster to react better to whatever situations arise. This has minimized the amount of 'babysitting' the forum needs. And we have given lots of chances to people to step up if they think they can do a better job, but very few do.

#2 there are many reasons why the executive implemented this change. Probably the most prominent, is that we don't want this webste to regress into Ottawa Aquatic Classifieds. This forum was, and can still be so much more. We are always looking for ways to generate stimulating activity on the forum, and within the club in general, and it seems like lately the classifieds have been drawing away from that. In the last couple years, OVAS has earned a reputation as the 'cheap fish and plants place.' I am shocked at the prices at auction lately, of items that a couple years ago would have earned 10$ + going unsold or at minimum bid. This is not usedottawa or kijiji. Period. If you like those sites better, then you're not in it for the community. You want good deals. I first joined this site and then this club because of the awesome time I had chatting (and hanging out with) people who shared my hobby, even if it was in a different area of the hobby. I listened to talks about Malawi cichlids even though I never have owned a tank with them. I wanted to learn more about all the fascinating aspects of this hobby, while interacting with a vibrant community. At meetings these days, I am caught between liking to see those familiar faces who make the effort to come to most of the meetings, and frustration at the people who seem to have forgotten what a fish club is about. At the CAOAC convention recently, people who I had never met were elated to see us having made our way from Ottawa, because what they care most about is the community. I hope we can get back to that.

#3 no one on this exec is 'convinced' about this change. We made a change, and are observing its effects. If we like those effects and how they pertain to what we envision of the club and the forum, then we will keep this change. If they have the opposite effect, then we will modify or change back. But we can't ask for a poll or vote everytime a change is made. This is not about egos are lack of effort. This is about the people who have given up several hours a month to make sure you have fun as a member of this club, or even as a forum user/lurker. We make changes; some you will like, some you won't. But don't accuse us of running a dictatorship when one of the decisions goes against what you want, or if we sometimes get tired of people who don't want to give things a chance.

I am really looking forward to a positive year in the upcoming season. We had the potential for a great season this year, with great speakers, etc, but I get the feeling too many people got bogged down in their vision of what the club should be (not talking about the executive), instead of enjoying the club for what it is, a great group of people who enjoy the same hobby.

[presto]

First of all I would like to say that the volunteers that run OVAS are appreciated.

How can we voice opinions without executives responding as if it was a personal attack?

It is not a personal attack, it is wanting more from the site and nothing will change if you don't ask. Trying to convince the volunteers(exec's) requires debate and perhaps typing lacks some of the charm face to face conversation can add, I don't know.

Suggestions?

[kennyman]

. . . . . . .

In the last couple years, OVAS has earned a reputation as the 'cheap fish and plants place.' I am shocked at the prices at auction lately, of items that a couple years ago would have earned 10$ + going unsold or at minimum bid. This is not usedottawa or kijiji. Period. If you like those sites better, then you're not in it for the community. You want good deals. I first joined this site and then this club because of the awesome time I had chatting (and hanging out with) people who shared my hobby, even if it was in a different area of the hobby.

. . . . . .snip . . . .. .   

I am really looking forward to a positive year in the upcoming season. We had the potential for a great season this year, with great speakers, etc, but I get the feeling too many people got bogged down in their vision of what the club should be (not talking about the executive), instead of enjoying the club for what it is, a great group of people who enjoy the same hobby.

Nice to see that written out   

Flea markets where so 1990's