Executive matters -split from- order from armkes.com

[maitre007]

I realize that it is a matter to be discussed by the Executive Committe but I do not think it is that unreasonable for the club to subsidize a group order to armkes.

From my understanding ovas revenues were up and expenses were down in the last fiscal year.  With the addition of a 50/50  draw at the annual auction in march 2005 (that would benefit from an armkes order in september) it is reasonably foreseeable that OVAS continues it's fiscal success.

Furthermore I think the money that wasn`t spent last year in updating the chaotic ovas library would be better served in partial subsidization of pool orders.


That is just the opinion of one executive member.  I only need the support of a few others, Art, to make it happen.

What are we talking about.  $30-50.  I am sure that with Claude's cost cutting expertise, we can find room in the ovas budget for this tiny expenditure.

[artw]

this post raises some very good points which I feel should be discussed in a separate thread for everyone -

how do you feel your membership in OVAS should be spent?
if we didnt use the library budget last year (around $200) should it be put forward to something else or kept in the library budget for 2004-05 ?

for those of you who don't know.
the first 10 minutes of every bricks and mortar OVAS meeting we devote to businiess and polticis of the club. if thats even a simple as doing an election of having a quorum.  or even asking you guys what you wanna do this year in the club.

subsidizing fish orders is a very good point and if the members vote on it then I dont see why not  this is why we have a By-Law and a Constitution.

but in order for you to have a vote you must be a paid up member

one of the reasons why this forum and this website exist as they act as an extension of the main club - there has been lots of good ideas and suggestions on how to improve the club but in order for it to actually work you guys will need to come to a real meeting and join the club:)

[artw]

here is your 2004-2005 Executive as elected by you in 2004

2004-2005 OVAS Executive - elect

Executive President Jody McManus
Vice-President Ron Barter
Secretary Art Williamson  
Treasurer Jackie Webster  
Past President Alain Decelles  

Chairpersons Membership Sue MacLean  
Program Director Eric Grzela  
Breeder Awards Program Colin DeSouza  
Librarian Lynn Coates
Social Convenor Claude Brault  
Newsletter Eric Grzela  
Auctions Marc Le Blanc
Webmaster Marc Le Blanc

Other Volunteers (not part of the Executive) Web Team David Patte

[dpatte]

Its not quite an executive matter, but it relates to membership.

Several people I have met recently said they weren't sure if they where allowed to use website and message boards because they wheren't yet paid up members.

I think it should be mentioned on the front page of the site that all people (paid ovas members or not) are welcome to sign into the website and participate in all aspects of the website and message board.

As for the club meetings, including the mini-auctions each month, I would say that it is reasonable for people to be allowed to visit the meetings at least twice without being a paid member, to decide if they like it or not. (hint: everyone loves the auctions!) On their third visit they should be asked to buy a membership, since membership is the main way we pay the rent for the room.

For the giant auction in Feb/Mar - anyone should be allowed to participate, as a seller or buyer.

What does the executive think about this?

[dpatte]

In most organizations, past-presidents are given a special status. They are always welcome to executive meetings, and are given equal access to executive info that others on the executive have access to. In effect, Past-Presidents are usually considered active advisors to the current executive. All Past-Presidents are usually lisTed as part of the executive (sort of like a Senate, in fact)

Being a Past President myself, is it possible we could start doing this? It would be worthwhile to keep track of ouR Past Presidents over the years, many of which have exceptional talents in the hobby that might be of use for us in the club.

One other thing - does anyone know what year OVAS was founded, and who our oldest living Past Pres is? How about our longest active member?

[Marc]

Several people I have met recently said they weren't sure if they where allowed to use website and message boards because they wheren't yet paid up members.

I think it should be mentioned on the front page of the site that all people (paid ovas members or not) are welcome to sign into the website and participate in all aspects of the website and message board.

I wasn't aware of this.  I'll add something to the front page.

As for the club meetings, including the mini-auctions each month, I would say that it is reasonable for people to be allowed to visit the meetings at least twice without being a paid member, to decide if they like it or not. (hint: everyone loves the auctions!) On their third visit they should be asked to buy a membership, since membership is the main way we pay the rent for the room.

The OVAS constitution states "Regular meetings shall be open to the public".  Changing this would require an amendment to the constitution (but this can be done).  My opinion is that we should encourage people to join and believe that people who attend meetings regularly should join.  However, I wouldn't want to be the one who takes attendance at every meeting to keep track of non-members.

What does the executive think about this?

I know you know this David but I would like to point out for the benefit of everyone that many of the executive don't read this Bulletin Board regularly, or ever.

This discussion is however useful as those of us who do read it benefit from the ideas and bring them to the executive and regular meetings.

[Sue]

"With the addition of a 50/50 draw at the annual auction in march 2005 (that would benefit from an armkes order in september)"

can you expand upon what a 50/50 draw has to do with an order of cichlids. You lost me there. 50/50 (cash) draw's are done by a fair number of clubs, but I don't think OVAS has run them to raise funds.  

Using club funds to finance orders for fish, is getting into pretty murky waters.   I suspect it would be controversial.  Remember OVAS suports our local fish stores, and is  a "not for profit organization."

Some  of you might want to check out becoming members of CRLCA. They have a buisness of ordering in cichlids for their members. They aren't "not for profit" and pay taxes, and fullfill umteen other regulations which allow them to run their buisness.

By the way great job on getting the club library list and picture links to so many of our books, on our web site!
Grats to Marc, Jackie and whomever else was involved. It must of been a lot of work. Time to buy some new books now!

[Marc]

In most organizations, past-presidents are given a special status. They are always welcome to executive meetings, and are given equal access to executive info that others on the executive have access to. In effect, Past-Presidents are usually considered active advisors to the current executive. All Past-Presidents are usually lisTed as part of the executive (sort of like a Senate, in fact)

Being a Past President myself, is it possible we could start doing this? It would be worthwhile to keep track of ouR Past Presidents over the years, many of which have exceptional talents in the hobby that might be of use for us in the club.

One other thing - does anyone know what year OVAS was founded, and who our oldest living Past Pres is? How about our longest active member?

Hi David,

IMO it is true that many organizations' past-presidents are listed in an "honour roll" however I believe that the "advisory" role is usually the job of the immediate past-president.  Still, this is something I can raise with the executive.  Could you remind at a date close to September 13 or else I'll likely forget.


On a different subject I believe that one of the executive-elect has resigned and we may be searching for someone to fill one of the roles in September.  More news about this once it's been confirmed.

[Marc]

P.S. Note that Alain Decelles who was president last year is listed as part of the executive for 2004-2005 asPast President .

[Sue]

-past presidents. Yes they are an asset and as far as I know welcome advisors to the executive.  I could make a list of some of them from old membership lists, but couldn't go farther back than say the last 10(?) years.
-longest active (current?) member: Again I doubt we could figure that out for sure, and there are some that were members as kids and rejoined. Anyone else remember the ovas meetings in the basement of the museum?

[gvv]

Sorry,
I'm far away from executive matters, but I'd like to say, if there is any money left in OVAS, it will be better to spend them on some, maybe public event to increase the interest of public in our hobby.
Let's be reasonable. I will be happy to get fishes for smaller price, but if some money will be spend on the group purchase of armke(or apistos), why people who have no interest in these fishes but, for example, have marine fishes should not ask to pay for their orders. And so on.

Again, sorry to interrupt, but just my thoughts...

[maitre007]

You look at the success of the montreal club to both promote the marine hobby and the freshwater hobby.  It is because they are able to offer a wide variety of fishes at their auctions.  

That is one of the reason why there are aquarium clubs.  To suplement the store selection.  I was able to buy 10 julie reganies for $10 when I can`t even buy one for that price at a pet store.

Right now our auctions are limited to species of fishes that are commonly found at wal-mart.  The other more specialized stores do not offer the selection of cichlids that I am looking.  I drool at the selection offered by armkes.com.

By subsidizing an order to armkes.com, you enable members of the community to have a more diversified stock.  In Canada, we promote the value of diversity.  If we have a greater variety of fishes available for the giant auction in march due to the success of those who partake in the armkes.com, all the members of the community benefit from a better auction.

I do not see how this act would deviate from the non-for-profit nature of the organization.  In fact in would be in correlation with this principle because even with budgetary due dilligence, there is a small surplus in the treasury.  Thus not to be a for profit organization that surplus needs to be spent on an activity that promotes the hobby.

Adding to the diversity of fishes kept among the members of the club achieves that goal.

[Greg]

I may be out of line posting given that I haven't even had the chance to attend my first meeting (due to summer "shut-down") but I have two comments if I may, from an "outside perspective".

Many breeders clubs, such as bird clubs, have executives or longer term members buy a few extra pairs if they are making an order or special trip somewhere.  Something like a few Africans and a few Angel/Discuss which are then included in the auction.  This does not have to cost a lot and provides some excitement at the auction.  

Also, if you have extra funds, more promotion of an event may help the club. As a new member, I can say that the club has very little contact with the outside world. I think that there may be a lot more enthusiasts out there who would enjoy something like the auction and then become members.  

Often there are over two hundred people attend a bird auction in Alfred.  I would assume that there are many more people who have fish in their house than chickens in the backyard...  

Just some thoughs...

Greg

[artw]

well with regards to communication the club has expanded probably twofold since I first joined.
that fact has nothing to do with me joining it is just an observation I've made. this website in itself has helped the club in leaps and bounds and is worth every last cent.
auctions get larger and larger every year just ask Marc.
there is CAOAC who we can use for promotion but honestly we are just a little club in the middle of nowhere, nothing near the massive clubs in Toronto which CAOAC seems centred around.

we have attemped mass advertising in the past.   hopefully with our new executive it will continue.   everything such as this comes at a cost be it man hours or money however.

[Greg]

Please don't take my comments the wrong way, this site is top notch, and I am excited about being a member of the club.  It is a great resource.

The only reason I made the post is because of the requests to subsidize fish orders, which people seem to be talking about.
 
My observations were just that; observations of what other clubs in other domains have done with extra money.

Greg

[ambushman2j]

personally I think it's just a slippery slope, if the club funds this venture, well, 328iguy might feel that his orders from quebec cichlides should be subsidized, and maybe orders from crlca should be subsidized..if you say yes to 1, you would have to say yes to all or it will cause legal conserns perhaps..or at very least fighting

Personally I would also like to see the money be spent on either better books, or club promotion or even club promotional events

just my opinion

[Marx]

im not a member yet, but i don't think subsidizing orders is a clubs responsibility.. if you want to order fish you pay.. not the club.. the club already offers you a DISCOUNT at local shops.. thats good enough.. i can't believe this topic got so many responses.. it is just outragious what some people ask for from groups... im in a marine group an NO they do subsidize anything..

sheesh..

[Nelson]

Time to jump in with my two cents.  

1.  Can anyone tell me of a club that subsidizes purchases made by its members?
2.  Can we really expect a member who doesn't buy mail-order fish to agree to his membership dollars going toward payment of someone elses livestock?  
3.  Does the club executive want to establish a beaurocracy to manage the payment of funds for this purpose?

I believe "NO" is the appropriate response to the above.  
By the way...what's the problem with having a few extra dollars in the bank?  Rainy day??

[ambushman2j]

Diversifying the fish available in ottawa is a noble cause, yes..but I mean when you are the one bringing in this fish which isn't around it's not like your not getting anything in return, I am sure you will end up turning a profit from breeding these fish then selling them off to other members, auctions and even stores..there are very few fish I didn't at least make my money back on initial investment

[gvv]

I am sure you will end up turning a profit from breeding these fish then selling them off to other members, auctions and even stores..

This should be in different thread, but ...
Even if you will be succesfull in breeding, it does not mean that you will have profit. When you are able to cover your expenses, it is already great.