Water chemistry

[dan2x38]

I've been a professional chemist for 20 years so far and an aquarist for a few more.  I make pharmaceutical drugs and those drugs have to be pure enough to give to humans and animals so I think I know a little about the chemistry behind purification.  I am not arguing that RO/DI water isn't excellent, it is.  I am saying that the chemistry behind the on-tap filters is sound and the water that they produce is pure enough for MY system (soft corals and as long as the filters are changed often), maybe not yours.  I have no doubt that if I go onto another forum and say the same thing I'll be attacked by several reefers but then again those same reefers will also scoff at the cheap skimmer and light set-up I'm using too.

I've often found that when you put forward a point of view that sometimes might hint that the most expensive way of working with a situation might not be the only way in EVERY situation you often get shot down by those owning the more expensive equipment.

As for distillation, this is another method of purification that will work just as well as long as the distillation column is long enough to avoid contaminants "bumping" into the water vapour before it is cooled and collected.

So...to summarise AGAIN....right now the on-tap filtration method is economically viable for me...it provides water for me to drink and water pure enough for MY SYSTEM once it has been supplemented/conditioned and is cheap on the hydro bills too!

If I keep more demanding corals in a larger tank then I will probably look at installing a more expensive system that can cope with the larger quanitities of purer water that I will need.

There...I hope I've made myself clear enough.  I'm not arguing with you.....all I'm saying is that if you don't need hyper-pure water then there may be alternatives.

For quaility drinking water with enough left in it for nurishment plus ecomonical cost & cartrigde replacment what is the best set-up? I now know RO and/or DI is not for me... great to have learned all this for sure... big TANKs guys... we still want better drinking water!

[artw]

thanks for that.   We recently finished designing and building a laboratory for the University of Ottawa,  and on the drawings we specified DEM water (demineralized)  I'll have to go read the specs to see exactly what we meant by that but it was ultrapure, something similar to what Alchemist was referring to. it was for use in BSL3 labs

[Shrimpy]

thanks for that.   We recently finished designing and building a laboratory for the University of Ottawa,  and on the drawings we specified DEM water (demineralized)  I'll have to go read the specs to see exactly what we meant by that but it was ultrapure, something similar to what Alchemist was referring to. it was for use in BSL3 labs

Demineralized water is either distilled or DI Water (Ion-exchange), however you made reference to the word ultrapure which leads me to believe it's DI water. The proper definition is: "Obtained by distillation or ion exchange processes for medical or technical purposes."

[gvv]

Top-Off With this price, including solenoid for auto shut off it is great:
http://ovas.ca/index.php?topic=18100.0

If I would not have one I will go for it... for reef tank

About drinking water, I'm not sure that the water with all type of elements removed from it is a nice choice...
At least I would rather be drinking non-filtered tap water.

Regards

[Shrimpy]

Top-Off With this price, including solenoid for auto shut off it is great:
http://ovas.ca/index.php?topic=18100.0

If I would not have one I will go for it... for reef tank

I wonder what the micron size of the filters for that unit is though. I know the one Redbelly sells has 1 micron filters. The unit I'm saving up for has 0.5 micron filters.

[artw]

I've been drinking tap water for 28 years and I turned out OK

[Julie]

Some would beg to differ.

[sniggir]

good one julie... I am sure that Pat could get you .5 micron cartriges as most of them are interchangable... I have a kent RO/DI 4 stage and I use mostly coralife cartiges cause I heard that they are better quality

[jimskoi]

Well i have been reading this thread and i think it is time for me to turn in around a bit.

I use the water out of my de-humidfier.Thats all I use.Always have and always will.

Now I know there is alot to say about this but I thought i would step in and maybe cool things down a it.

There are thing that people do or use thats others think is the worst.Mine is one of them.I wouldnt tell people to do it.But it has orked for me in the years that I have been into this hobby.

[Alchemist]

The water from the dehumidifier is actually really good as it is a form of distilled water.  As long as the collector is clean and the coils don't have dust on them then it's great water.

I PM'ed Veron before to tell him that we are actually on the same page and I also wanted to emphasise again that you shouldn't rely just on an on-tap filter if you have very demanding corals.  I don't so far so things are OK for now.

[redbelly]

The water from the dehumidifier is actually really good as it is a form of distilled water.  As long as the collector is clean and the coils don't have dust on them then it's great water.

HA Jim!! Some proof as to why even your dehumidifier water works
FYI Jim and I joke about this sometimes as he uses his dehumidifier water and I have a great big 7 stage unit 

Personally I was always fighting with hair algae (due to high phosphates) prior to purchasing an RO/DI unit. Even on my first unit I didnt find that the cheaper quality membranes were a good enough quality for my tank as I had very high lighting - dual 400W 13k on a 65g tank For my applications i found that I required a good quality RO unit hence why I chose the Purely H20 brand.


If you dont mind me asking Alchemist, how long has your tank been setup and what type of lighting do you have ever the tank? Will the tap unit that you are using actually remove phosphate? I would assume not as you are using the phosban media but...
Alchemist or Shrimpy would either of you have the time or facilities to actually test Brita water vs tap water vs RO water?? This would be a really neat test that I would love to see posted!

[Alchemist]

It's PC lighting (130 watt on a 25g tank with 30lbs live rock) as I don't have anything that needs much more than this right now. I don't have any hair algae or cyano any more....but I did before during the cycling process.  The tank has been set up since Feb which I know is not a long time.  I have supplemental carbon in a canister filter (I wash the sediment from this every 2 weeks to avoid nitrate build up) and some phosphate remover resin...I also have extra carbon in a HOB skimmer too....I change the carbon more regularly than I probably should but I also have a tendancy to overfilter.  If I worked everything out it would probably be cheaper for me to use RO/DI water but I still have quite a bit of filter resin left before I get to this point. 

As for a test I also think it would be neat to set up identical 10g tanks with a few frags in just to see which did best etc.  That should be fairly simple to do but time consuming using the different sources of water.  I guess you'd have to choose the frags carefully too as I believe some of them do well with some phosphate in the water!!

[Shrimpy]

HA Jim!! Some proof as to why even your dehumidifier water works
FYI Jim and I joke about this sometimes as he uses his dehumidifier water and I have a great big 7 stage unit 

Personally I was always fighting with hair algae (due to high phosphates) prior to purchasing an RO/DI unit. Even on my first unit I didnt find that the cheaper quality membranes were a good enough quality for my tank as I had very high lighting - dual 400W 13k on a 65g tank For my applications i found that I required a good quality RO unit hence why I chose the Purely H20 brand.


If you dont mind me asking Alchemist, how long has your tank been setup and what type of lighting do you have ever the tank? Will the tap unit that you are using actually remove phosphate? I would assume not as you are using the phosban media but...
Alchemist or Shrimpy would either of you have the time or facilities to actually test Brita water vs tap water vs RO water?? This would be a really neat test that I would love to see posted!

I might be able to test somethings. List what you would want checked and I'll see if I have the chemicals/equipment/resources to do them.

[porcupinepuffer]

I use the water out of my de-humidfier.Thats all I use.Always have and always will.

I'm actually surprised anything in a saltwater tank (other than fish) would live after being exposed to dehumidifier water... Am I reading this correctly, is this the water that is collected from the drain pan of a typical portable dehumidifer, which consists of a coil that has all kinds of welded copper tubing allover it? Along with other types of metals? If this is ok, why are we using all this PVC, and plastic piping when we can just weld copper lines allover our tanks?

[jimskoi]

Yes you are correct.
I think mine is made with aluminum and not copper.
Its worked for me for quite awhile but im probally going to get an RO unit(Hint,Hint Pat).
Since my tank is a 400gal and I have alot of coral and LR.

[mlee]

The reason we can't use copper and most metals (titanium and some stainless steel grades are OK but expensive) is that salt water will attack and corrode/dissolve them.  The water collecting in a dehumidifier should be reasonably "clean" dirt, dust, etc. aside

[Alchemist]

My dehumidifier has aluminium tubes too.....didn't really think about the fact that some had copper tubes...good call. 

[redbelly]

I might be able to test somethings. List what you would want checked and I'll see if I have the chemicals/equipment/resources to do them.

Hmm, I will have to look into this, but that would be great if you could. I will try and put together a list in the next couple of days.

[Tynan Rasmus]

I have mixed my salt water as I drained my tank since I began this hobby, never had an issue. My water has never been aged more than 30 mins. However, as I have a bigger tank now, I usually mix the day before.