New Tank - Clean Up Crew not doing well

[blizzack1]

Hi guys,

After waiting for my tank to cycle for a couple of months, and getting all my ammonia, nitrate and nitrite down to zero, I thought I was safe to put some hermits and snails in last night.

This morning, I found them lethargic/under the sand/right at the water line, and a few of them totally out of the water

Obviously, the aren't happy, so i retested things, and I've got 0's again for ammonia/nitrate/nitrite.  I'm at about 9degrees for hardness, and the PH is 8.2

I was using some old clor-amax to treat the water, but it was a few years old, so i thought maybe it wasn't effective anymore and bout some prime and dosed for the entire tank (48 gallons).

The temperature got up to about 81, so I backed it down a bit and it is around 80 right now.

As for salinity.. I tested it yesterday with my new hydrometer (after soaking is for 24 hours as per the directions) and I was at about 1.0257.  I tested again today, though, and it is around 1.023... I might have topped up the tank with some water, but I'm sure I did that before testing it again.

I went to buy a refractometer but they were sold out at a couple of places.

I assume the snails are okay at 1.023, even though I would like it a bit higher (should I slowly increase?).

Would they be acting like this because I didn't acclimatize them well enough?  They went in the tank early yesterday afternoon.

Thanks for your help.

[Malyon18]

Just throwing some ideas out there, was the tank ever used as a FW tank in the past and maybe treated with copper based medications. Also how long did you acclimate them for. Being at the surface of the water and some out of the water seems like they are trying to escape something in the water.

[Medym]

To build off what Malyon has asked, what kind of equipment are you running: filters, powerheads, lighting etc.  Also when was your last water change?  If you are using a bad batch of old water conditioner, you should be trying to do a water change with Prime, not just dosing the tank with it.

[bt]

What kind of snails?  The temp seems a little high, but I don't know that it would be enough to have this effect.

1.023 SG is a little low, but hydrometers are notoriously inconsistent.  And again with this, I don't know that it's low enough to cause that kind of effect.

[blizzack1]

Thanks guys.

It was a freshwater tank (heavily planted), but all I ever dosed was Melafix ( I think that's what its calleD) years ago. 

I've just got one Hydor (1050, I think) powerhead for now... I am planning on adding more circulation, but not until I'm ready to put some fish and coral in the tank.

I don't have any lighting going, and don't plan on running a filter.  I have a protein skimmer but it isn't setup yet.

I'm hoping to avoid a big water change, as I am kind of ill-prepared for that.  i have no large buckets, and only one heater.  The water that comes out of my tap is extremely cold, even by winter standards, so I'm not even sure how I'd go about changing more than 10% of the water...

[bizfromqc]

Thanks guys.

It was a freshwater tank (heavily planted), but all I ever dosed was Melafix ( I think that's what its calleD) years ago. 

I've just got one Hydor (1050, I think) powerhead for now... I am planning on adding more circulation, but not until I'm ready to put some fish and coral in the tank.

I don't have any lighting going, and don't plan on running a filter.  I have a protein skimmer but it isn't setup yet.

I'm hoping to avoid a big water change, as I am kind of ill-prepared for that.  i have no large buckets, and only one heater.  The water that comes out of my tap is extremely cold, even by winter standards, so I'm not even sure how I'd go about changing more than 10% of the water...

You do have hot water coming out of the tap right?
Match that with your tank water, add Prime, mix and you're done.

I've got a tank cycling now and going through a nitrite spike. I do 40% WC daily using this method and so far the fish in there (zebra danios) are doing great.

I would take the advice given and make a major WC.

[JetJumper]

How is the water movement?  Do you believe there is good surface agitation to allow oxygen into the water?  Just another thought.

[Medym]

I've just got one Hydor (1050, I think) powerhead for now... I am planning on adding more circulation, but not until I'm ready to put some fish and coral in the tank.

I don't have any lighting going, and don't plan on running a filter.  I have a protein skimmer but it isn't setup yet.

I'm hoping to avoid a big water change, as I am kind of ill-prepared for that.  i have no large buckets, and only one heater.  The water that comes out of my tap is extremely cold, even by winter standards, so I'm not even sure how I'd go about changing more than 10% of the water...

Are you still doing water changes though (even if they are at 10%)?  Also, is the current from the powerhead breaking the surface of the water?  I am not by any means an expert, but you've got no means of getting oxygen into the water.  Maybe someone else could chime in, but something tells me that could be a problem. (might also explain why they are near the top of the water)

edit- JetJumper seems to have gotten to the same idea as well!

[bt]

New salt water

You do have hot water coming out of the tap right?
Match that with your tank water, add Prime, mix and you're done.

New salt water should be given time to cure before use, unless an emergency change is ABSOLUTELY necessary right that moment.

[bizfromqc]

New salt water
New salt water should be given time to cure before use, unless an emergency change is ABSOLUTELY necessary right that moment.

My bad, this is a salty tank, apologies.

[bt]

Also, is the current from the powerhead breaking the surface of the water?  I am not by any means an expert, but you've got no means of getting oxygen into the water.

You'll still get some oxygen exchange without surface agitation, but not necessarily enough.

It's definitely a possibility.

[bt]

My bad, this is a salty tank, apologies.

No worries!

[blizzack1]

Thanks guys.  The powerhead is close to the surface and rippling the water.  I've moved it up so it is breaking the surface a bit.

I think I've found the culprit.  Despite me continually turning down the heater, the tank is now 81.5 degrees (up 2 degrees in the last hour while I was out).

It is entirely possible that it has been much warmer than I expected.  I've unplugged it and am going to let the tank gradually cool off... it is a brand new heater.

[bt]

Were the lights on during that timeframe?

[blizzack1]

Were the lights on during that timeframe?

No lights on, no.  Hope the temperature is the problem and they pull through. I don't want to pick out 40 dead snails and crabs!

[Greatwhite]

I read through all the responses, and will point out some obvious things...

1) tap water, conditioned with old conditioner may be toxic.  I've never really been a stickler for expiry dates on test kits and things that don't get put into my tank in large amounts, but water conditioner should really be current.

2) tap water may have trace elements that are removed by a good RO/DI water filter.  Depending on where you are, the water may be better than other areas.  If you are using water from a well, an RO/DI filter is VERY necessary.  Some have had lots of luck with tap water in the city, though.

3) No lighting, no skimmer running, and probably no water circulation...  You need to keep your water moving, to keep the water consistent throughout the tank.  Bad stuff tends to settle.  It will also get the water temperature consistent throughout the tank... Heat rises...

4) Your salinity is low. You should aim for 1.025ish (I keep mine at 1.026)

5) heat should be 78-80 degrees, but a degree warmer wouldn't cause your snail to go goofy...

6) snails eat algae... algae needs light...

Do you have any live rock in there? Or just substrate and water?

Ideally when you are cycling the tank, you would be running it as if there were fish in there.  Proper lighting schedule, circulation, heating - and sometimes even a very light feeding schedule.  You can't just fill a tank with warm water and leave it alone.

Best case, you can do a 10% water change (bumping the salinity up) and add some current Prime.  And turn everything on and wait.

Kudos on your patience in letting it cycle so long...  I hope your patience lasts just a little longer.

[blizzack1]

Thanks for the response!

1 - agreed

2 - I'm in centretown.. heard people have been fine and was going to take a wait-and-see approach with RO/DI, as I'm in an apartment.

3 - the powerhead is moving gravel on the bottom of the far side of the tank, so while maybe not ideal, there is definitely some circulation going on. 

4 - I agree about the salinity, but I can't really trust my hydrometer, as it told me I was at 1.0256 yesterday.. trying to track down a refractometer, but Aquavalley, Big Als Innes and Petsmart don't have any right now.

5 - tank is cooling down now, was always my aim to have it around 78-80

6 - I have 50 pounds of live rock.. my plan was to get the CUC in there and see if they survive, before adding fish/coral over the next week.  So, the snails being hungry isn't a concern yet, I just want them to stay alive   They just went in yesterday.

I read through all the responses, and will point out some obvious things...

1) tap water, conditioned with old conditioner may be toxic.  I've never really been a stickler for expiry dates on test kits and things that don't get put into my tank in large amounts, but water conditioner should really be current.

2) tap water may have trace elements that are removed by a good RO/DI water filter.  Depending on where you are, the water may be better than other areas.  If you are using water from a well, an RO/DI filter is VERY necessary.  Some have had lots of luck with tap water in the city, though.

3) No lighting, no skimmer running, and probably no water circulation...  You need to keep your water moving, to keep the water consistent throughout the tank.  Bad stuff tends to settle.  It will also get the water temperature consistent throughout the tank... Heat rises...

4) Your salinity is low. You should aim for 1.025ish (I keep mine at 1.026)

5) heat should be 78-80 degrees, but a degree warmer wouldn't cause your snail to go goofy...

6) snails eat algae... algae needs light...

Do you have any live rock in there? Or just substrate and water?

Ideally when you are cycling the tank, you would be running it as if there were fish in there.  Proper lighting schedule, circulation, heating - and sometimes even a very light feeding schedule.  You can't just fill a tank with warm water and leave it alone.

Best case, you can do a 10% water change (bumping the salinity up) and add some current Prime.  And turn everything on and wait.

Kudos on your patience in letting it cycle so long...  I hope your patience lasts just a little longer.

[Feivel]

For fun since its a new tank what are the nitrite/nitrate levels?

[bt]

Said 0/0/0 for Ammonia/Nitrite/Nitrate in the first post.

[Darth]

did you feed the tank at all, there would not really be a cycle without any biological waste ie fish poop, or food or whatever, otherwise you just have a tank of water, unless the live rock was in fact live rock (not dried) I would test it again in few days since the snails are dying I would let nature take it course and let the snail die off causing amonia to build to start a proper cycle. It sounds to me as maybe the tank never really had a cycle to begin with