Fish Room Shutdown (and) New Custom Tank Plans!

[darkdep]

I have had an HVAC Engineer evaluate my home based on my humidity control issues in the house. 

Last winter, we suffered mold growth in almost every room of the house, and trying to deal with the condensation on the windows was almost ridiculous (you could sit and watch the water just constantly streaming off the living room and bedroom windows).  We've been replacing drywall regularly.  Not being willing to risk another winter of this and the health risks to my family, I asked around for some evaluations.  Have had a couple good connections, and then found out my neighbour across the street works for a commercial HVAC company and offered me an engineer from their company as a favour.

Bottom line:  Based on my house's age and configuration, it's various distribution systems, the source of the humidity (Fishtanks in an already humid basement), and the fact that we've already been battling mold issues, they don't believe any sort of HRV ventilation system will help much (he called it a "waste of money" for my needs).  The "proper" solution is a large, powerful dehumidifier which is incredibly expensive.  Otherwise I would have to deploy a residential-sized dehumidifier in every room in the house and run them constantly. 

What can I say...older house, older forced air system, probably lots of duct leaks, poor ventilation, poor airflow.  This house is just not capable of dealing with the humidity without a lot of money being thrown at it.

So, it is with great sadness that I am announcing the shutdown of my fish room and breeding operations.  Over the next month I'll be putting pretty much everything up for sale, including a lot of my livestock.

The only saving grace for me will be the establishment of a single large tank to replace the existing 15 operating tanks, and I'll have to mentally shift from "Breeder" mentality to "pet owner" mentality.

(cries)

[bitterman]

I'm so sad for you APW    

So what fish are you keeping? What are you selling?

Bruce

[beowulf]

Wow that really sucks.  I had never seen the room in person, but it looked very nice from the pictures I did see.

[Nerine]

Wow...I'm so sorry to hear that
Being a pet person is weird after being a breeder...I've been down that road before and am still there as a 2 tank person...it takes a LOT of getting used to.

[Fishnut]

Oh dear!

I'm curious to ask how much that giant dehumidifier costs.  What if you were to build an addition or a separate shed size building where you could do what you like without affecting your house.  I guess that would also cost a lot of money.

I'm trying to think of ways to address the humidity issue as well.  My house doesn't have an issue like that, but I don't want it to when I put in my fish room.  The fish room will be beside the downstairs bathroom and there is a ventilation fan in the wall that it shares.  I was thinking of installing a double sided fan (if that exists) to ventilate the fish room.  I have no idea if that will be enough though.  My old fish room had a massive humidity issue.  My grandfather made me covers for my tanks with a wood frame that slid over the top and a piece of thick plastic stretched over the frame.

Are most of your tanks open at the top or do you have covers on them all? 

[RoxyDog]

sorry to hear man.  yeah, my hubby had said soemthing about a large and extremely expensive dehumidifier. 

[darkdep]

It was quite functional.  I've managed to successfully breed 15 species of Cichlid in there, and have happily spread the offspring all over the city and beyond.  It will be sad to see that part end.

The new tank I set up will be dedicated to my large fish.  I will need to go do an inventory to see what's staying.  Gonna be hard.

[bitterman]

It was quite functional.  I've managed to successfully breed 15 species of Cichlid in there, and have happily spread the offspring all over the city and beyond.  It will be sad to see that part end.

The new tank I set up will be dedicated to my large fish.  I will need to go do an inventory to see what's staying.  Gonna be hard.

You can still breed stuff, just not at the same level or numbers.  My 65 would be lonely without the Afra's and litho's I got from you.

Bruce

[babblefish1960]

Terribly sorry to hear about the sudden shift Darkdep, it will be very hard to downsize and alter your thinking to match. Good luck with the decisions of course, and naturally, should you require any assistance in the actual demobbing of the basement, I am certain there are many of us that would be glad to help you in this time of upheaval.

Alternatively, you could always purchase another house more suited to your passion.

[darkdep]

The giant dehumidifier that was suggested was roughly in the $40,000 range.  Yes, I'm not kidding.  It's used for indoor pools   Otherwise I was looking at a whole bunch of smaller units.

Long term, I'd like to convert my garage into a fish room.  This would be far easier to manage with regards to humidity compared to the basement.  There's money there, but NOT $40,000, plus that's really where I always wanted to put the fish anyway.  Until then, this has to happen.

Roxy:  Somewhat glad to hear you say that.  I was planning to talk to your hubby this weekend about it as well, but the fact that he was thinking along the same lines helps solidify the decision. 

The tanks are currently almost completely covered.  I have glass tops on all tanks, only the two 75's have any real uncoverage (they're half covered, long story).  Covering them has not seemed to help much.  Since many of my tanks are "breeder" tanks, they have a large surface area relative to their size; the total amount of water surface area is probably the issue.  More Surface Area = More evaporation.  Covering helps, but you can't cover completely.

[darkdep]

Actually babble, don't laugh...If I can't engineer the garage into a fishroom I'm going to start house shopping next spring.

[beowulf]

Actually babble, don't laugh...If I can't engineer the garage into a fishroom I'm going to start house shopping next spring.

Muhahaha the fish fanatic lives!!!

[darkdep]

Oh yes.  This isn't the end.  It's a transition.  I still completely LOVE this hobby and won't give it up.  I'll just adapt down a bit for now and spend ALL WINTER planning my next expansion

[babblefish1960]

Actually, in a very serious way, my suggestion was very practical, I know it is tough to go through this, having done it myself a long time ago, but it is doable, and sometimes, it is the impetus to move along to greater things, your next fish room will be amazing, you know it is true.

[dan2x38]

Sorry to here about your current news.  Just as many said it is opening the door to bigger and better things... I do not know you face to face but willing to offer assistance if need be...

With all your's and everyone's knowledge here there is no DIY work around? There must be many ppl worldwide even that have come up against this issue without shutting down there op. Maybe a collaborative head scratching is needed?

[babblefish1960]

I would suggest that there is no problem too big that can't be fixed if you throw enough money at it. Having said that, there is a practical limit to this where one is just throwing good money after bad and wasting their life. So sometimes, it is better to just pull up stakes and move on in order to keep your health, funds and sanity.

[charlie]

WOW , man you spent so much time & money on that project, it must have been a difficult decision to make. but one that is best. I hope it`s possible to store the hardware ( tanks filters etc.), since you are planning to resurrect this again.
Regards

[darkdep]

Dealing with humidity in a house, from what I've learned, is partly unique to each structure.  There are collective head scratching ways to deal with humidity in general but each house is different.  There is no DIY solution that is going to guarantee a fix this time.

[darkdep]

Nope, no storage.  Everything's getting sold.  When I get a new space to redo this, I'll get new stuff then to fit the space.  Thinking next time I'm going with plywood tanks anyway.

[Laura]

Oh, I'm sorry.  That's got to be really disappointing, but it sounds like you're bouncing back with new plans!! 

[washefuzzy]

Sorry to hear about you having to close down your fish room. Them molds are nasty stuff especially to humans!

[fishycanuck]

 
Wow, we all enjoyed watching the fish room grow... the business, the breeding, and now this.
I am very sad for you.
We look forward to the debut of your new fish house.

[dan2x38]

DarkDep- I remember from bodyshop days that they use electrostatic painting. It is just charging the paint positively as it passes through the gun then grounding the surface being painted. This process saves paint plus makes much better surface coating.  Could this principle not be employed some how? Say hoods like over stoves positive charge the air/moisture as it passed through. Then ground a metal mess filter. The charge would not need to be very high at all and using DC current would be ideal; I think. Maybe with the fans turning at the right speed it would statically charge the moist air? Then have a drip tray just like a dehumidifier. Just a brain storming head scratcher...  

[darkdep]

Thanks everyone.  This fishroom was great but of course there are a ton of things I'd do differently if it was done over again.  Fish Room II will be a super improvement. 

But hey!  I'm looking at it positively.  I will keep a single tank so I get to go shop for a big one. 

And, BTW, you are all vultures!  I can't believe how many PM's I've gotten already asking about what I'm selling lol

[dan2x38]

And so the carrion swarm...  Guess the mini auction will not be short of items to purchase?

[darkdep]

The Big Sale will occur the weekend of September 1st.  I'll have a list posted this weekend.  Keep your eyes peeled. 

[dan2x38]

Sept. 1st- 12:01am? With eyes wide open... 

[audioslave_36]

Hey Chris

I am sorry that you are having to take a break from the fish room, and I am sure your next fish room will be even more impressive

Dave

[babblefish1960]

But hey!  I'm looking at it positively.  I will keep a single tank so I get to go shop for a big one. 

If I may be so bold as to offer up a suggestion, in order to keep the trade off fair, what about something in the order of say...oh, about 300 gallons or so.

[sniggir]

I like the way you think babble....can you say frontosa tank....hehehehehe...well that  is my plan but chris yours may differ either way...a 300 sounds good ..... mmmm ya think we could con ya into SW... that would be a craxy tank!!!!!!!!

Pat

[darkdep]

Well, since I made the agreement to myself a long time ago that the fish investment stays in fish, I need to spend all the sale proceeds on the new tank. 

I want something at least 6" long, 24" wide...although I'd love to do an 8" tank.

[dan2x38]

When you start the new one will you post pics of the progress and/or the plans?

[darkdep]

For sure.  Hell I think I'll need to put a call out for help bringing it into the house

[sas]

Well, since I made the agreement to myself a long time ago that the fish investment stays in fish, I need to spend all the sale proceeds on the new tank. 

I want something at least 6" long, 24" wide...although I'd love to do an 8" tank.

Um.........6 inches long and 24 inches wide........and or an 8 inch tank .

For sure.  Hell I think I'll need to put a call out for help bringing it into the house

.......... ..... I couldn't resist

[audioslave_36]

I want something at least 6" long, 24" wide...although I'd love to do an 8" tank.

Can't see there needing to be much help to carry a tank that size     but if you do, I will come over and lend a hand 

[darkdep]

Oh jeez,  LOL

Perfect dimensions now are 84" x 24" x 24".  That will fit the space perfectly.  I don't want higher than that, cause it'll be too hard to clean

[audioslave_36]

Oh jeez,  LOL

Perfect dimensions now are 84" x 24" x 24".  That will fit the space perfectly.  I don't want higher than that, cause it'll be too hard to clean

yes I have to agree, the only draw back to my 220g is it is 30" deep and my arm is 30" long.  not fun

[babblefish1960]

Over many years, I have had a few tanks that were three feet and four feet deep, and I will add that they were planted tanks too.  When you get to a certain depth, there are actually good commercial tools to help reach all the far away places, and of course, I could hold my breath for quite a long while if I was just hanging in the tank over the side. However, the really deep ones, and I had one that was 66" deep, was to climb right in and get wet while doing landscaping and maintenance. Kind of fun for the fish too, they eat out of your hands and when you're in there with them, they tend to be very friendly.  Great way to get to know your fish.

[darkdep]

Yeah....no. 24" tops. 

Actually, the limiting factor for me is going to be the stairs leading down to the basement.  As much as I try, the tape measure tells me getting an EIGHT foot tank down the stairs would be impossible.

[dan2x38]

Suffering 1 day came across an article about a guy buying a tank to big had to remove front picture window to put it in the living room... now that is fish crazy... 

[darkdep]

hehe maybe in the new fish house. 

You know, I've always been the kind of person who is as interested in the equipment KEEPING the fish as the fish themselves.  All my thinking for the last while has been multi-tank based, but now I'm softening the blow of losing my fish wall by designing the heck out of this new tank.

So, I've started assembling the list of goods to sell.  I'm at 102 items so far and really haven't gotten that far in.  I'm starting to think this sale might turn into a big day long OVAS party

[dan2x38]

a DarkDep auction...  come one come all to the greatest fish sale in Ottawa...  SP have nothing on you!

[darkdep]

As Audioslave_36's sig says, "Go Big or Go Home", right?

[dan2x38]

if ya can't run with the big dogs stay on the porch... LMAO 

[babblefish1960]

Pity about the stairs of course, but the only reasoning behind the 300 gallon mark was to give you a sense of lateral movement in volume rather than a downsizing. At the moment, you have quite a few gallons of water in the house with fish, it would be kind of nice to give them a really stunning place to hang out in, and your dimensions only account for about 200 gallons. Would you consider building a tank in the basement rather than trying to get something built down the stairs?

[sniggir]

now we are talkin build it and instead of 300g uprade...hehehe go for 500!

go big or go home and then make it salt...hehehehe

[audioslave_36]

Chris do you want an 8' x 24" piece of plywood to play around with ? it will give you a better idea than the tape measure will.

Dave

[speckledmind]

I'm really sorry to read about you tearring down the fish breeding project.

Well ! as they say, " you can take the fish keeping hobby out of the person, but you can't take the person out of the hobby " 

Here is an idea for planning your larger tank project.
( also something I have done in the past ).
What to know what fits down the stairs and into your basement ?
Build a life size tank / mokup out of carboard to the dimensions you would like, then take it through the doors, into the house and down the stairs, figure out what's the best way of handling such a size / weight, how many people you will need, the weight that will be supported in every turn right up to sitting it on the stand.
Planning such a move can save you and everyone involved a lot of back akes ( maybe a hernia or two along the way ), and see if it's a doable thing.

Cheers,
Denis

[darkdep]

I have lots of plywood and have moved several sheets of drywall and other objects down those stairs...Pretty sure what it could handle.  The floor to ceiling on the landing is about 7'6".  That limits me to about 7'.

I did consider doing a plywood tank and building it but there's a timing issue...by doing this selloff it means the (few) fish I keep will likely spend their time in a rubbermaid container.  I'd like to minimize that time.  DIYing a tank, of any size, will require a lot of tank assembly time added on to the time of building the stand, plumping the sump, etc etc.

That being said, if there was a tank building expert who could pull it off quickly, I'd consider that.  Keep in mind that the reason I'm downsizing is to reduce the humidity in my house   Although with a single tank I can employ several strategies to keep it under control (not to mention a huge reduction in water surface area).

[groan]

wow, that sucks.
but on a happy note...can i have your stuff?


kidding, i'll be eagerly awaiting the sale but sorry the wall has to go, but on a happy note, the wall will become a room!

[speckledmind]

I hear you on the plywood and drywall moving, but a tank is a whole different beast altogether.

Someone mentioned a local Acrylic tank builder to me a while back as I was looking for a bullet proof Mantis Shrimp tank, I keep racking my brains on who said it, and who is the builder, but I'm coming out short with the info right now.
I remember the vague details because he said it could be built in place if need be, meaning the sheets cut to size would be brought in and built on the stand.
Off the top of my head, one guy that comes to mind and is probably your best bet is az from this forum, he got many tanks made for his store and in the past, so he maybe able to help out, also try Mike from Recif Quebec, then contact Marc Andre at La Niche , both these guys get tanks made out of Acrylic by a local guy.

Hope this helps.

Cheers,
Denis




moderator's note: link to banned user removed

[charlie]

Well, since I made the agreement to myself a long time ago that the fish investment stays in fish, I need to spend all the sale proceeds on the new tank. 

I want something at least 6" long, 24" wide...although I'd love to do an 8" tank.

This is not 24 wide , but might be worth a look @ the price 
http://usedottawa.com/classified-ad/3788582&category=aquariums-fish

[Fishnut]

IF you feel like taking a pick-up truck to Sudbury, my father has a couple of plywood tanks and a fiberglass tank that he's been storing for me.  I'll never use them.  The two wood ones measure aprox 48 x 24 x 24 and the fiberglass tank is bigger and is already fitted with a drain at the bottom.  I think it also might have a couple of holes drilled into the back near the top.  I don't remember for sure though.

[Mettle]

This is not 24 wide , but might be worth a look @ the price 
http://usedottawa.com/classified-ad/3788582&category=aquariums-fish

Wow. Now that's a good find! Haha.

[beowulf]

This is not 24 wide , but might be worth a look @ the price 
http://usedottawa.com/classified-ad/3788582&category=aquariums-fish

I saw that and was thinking of giving the guy a call.  I want to know what fish are in it as they probably will not interest me as much as the tank.

[BigDaddy]

The Big Sale will occur the weekend of September 1st.  I'll have a list posted this weekend.  Keep your eyes peeled. 

Okay slacker.  The weekend is over and there is no list.  You better start appeasing the vultures!

[darkdep]

Thanks for the tank offers folks!  Damn I love this community.

I think I have settled on my perfect dimensions tho.  Given all the variables, including the limitations of getting it where it needs to be, 84" x 24" x 24" is going to be the perfect size.  That's about 209 gallons according to the OVAS Capacity Calculator.

I've already received a price on a custom tank of this size from ray.  Just have to get it built and get it here from T.O.  Then I'll have to buy enough beer to convince an army of sympathetic OVAS'ers to come help bring it into the house

A 7 foot tank will look spectacular, it's unusual and just that much longer than a 6 foot tank.  24" high will keep it manageable to clean, and will let me use 1/2" glass instead of thicker (which will help with weight).  Since I'll be plumping it for a sump, I can put it right back against the wall. 

[darkdep]

List is going up now. 

[darkdep]

Here you go:  http://ovas.ca/index.php?topic=19643.0

[beowulf]

Attack of the vultures as we take all of APW stuff!!!

[bitterman]

Vultures? Not me 

I still wish this was ne needed, but I am looking forward to Fish wall 2.

Bruce

[beowulf]

As promissed, here is the site I found that makes huge custom glass and acrylic tanks.

http://www.aquariumsforyou.com/

[bitterman]

So APW how big a tank are you doing? 8'-10'? or a 6'er? to replace you fish wall?

Bruce

[darkdep]

Right now, the plan is a 7'.  However, I just got a lead that someone may be able to come in and assemble it in place...which opens the door to something larger.  I can't get a tank longer than 7' down my stairs but a single pane of glass should be another story...if this becomes reality I might just order the glass locally from Rossen and have it delivered.

...Hmm...I wonder if Rossen would build the tank for me

[beowulf]

Right now, the plan is a 7'.  However, I just got a lead that someone may be able to come in and assemble it in place...which opens the door to something larger.  I can't get a tank longer than 7' down my stairs but a single pane of glass should be another story...if this becomes reality I might just order the glass locally from Rossen and have it delivered.

...Hmm...I wonder if Rossen would build the tank for me

Glass or acrylic?

[audioslave_36]

If you want to do Acrylic you could call Plastec, on Iber road, talk to Mike or Roch they own the place and they do amazing things with all sorts of plastics.

[darkdep]

I'm leaning back towards glass.  Acrylic looks like it's just going to cost too much. 

Anyone know anyone in the Ottawa area who would be willing to assemble a tank in place? 

[bitterman]

I'm leaning back towards glass.  Acrylic looks like it's just going to cost too much. 

Anyone know anyone in the Ottawa area who would be willing to assemble a tank in place? 

Why not DIY and do an OVAS Article? Maybe someone with experience can help. I'd help too if you need it, but I'm not experienced with tank building.

Bruce

[darkdep]

Now I'm thinking about it

[bitterman]

Also thought about sumping the setup? One of your 75's would make a good sump for a larger tank.

Bruce

[darkdep]

I'll be sumping, but I don't care that much about what I use at this point.  I'll be selling my 75's because I have the tops for them and they are in pristine condition; I'll pick up something scratch and dent for the sump.

I'm revisiting the plywood tank idea.  This is where I was in the beginning.  This I think I could handle, even found all the ingredients.  If this worked, I might go for a 96" x 30" x 24" tank, about 300 gallons

[beowulf]

300g that sounds familiar 

[babblefish1960]

Yes it does doesn't it beowulf!   Now that is more like it, a size more in keeping with mass efficiency and of course, keeping it cricket in the downsizing realm.  If you look up the golden rectangle of arts and sciences, you will find something that approaches a most pleasing shape to the soul as you sit and ponder life's intricacies as found in your favourite fish in your show tank.

[darkdep]

Only fear of building it gives me pause.

[beowulf]

Only fear of building it gives me pause.

Well if you are going to go 300g why not 600g?

[darkdep]

Stop that. 

[RoxyDog]

ok, I *have* to ask...if you're getting rid of all your tanks to avoid moisture...won't a big-ass 300gal tank also do the same thing?   

[darkdep]

Actually, no.  The 210gallon "default" tank at this point has 3.5 times LESS surface area than all the existing tanks, even though it's only about half the total volume.  That combined with a more comprehensive sealing plan of the top and the dehumidifier should be fine. 

[bitterman]

Actually, no.  The 210gallon "default" tank at this point has 3.5 times LESS surface area than all the existing tanks, even though it's only about half the total volume.  That combined with a more comprehensive sealing plan of the top and the dehumidifier should be fine. 

So for me I'm adding so about 6400" squared of surface area. Is this going to cause me problems? Tanks are going to be mostly sealed on the top, Sump will be sealed, I have a heat exchanger in the house and dehumidifier rated from 2300 sq. Feet in a 1200 Sq. Feet house.

Bruce.

[darkdep]

From recent knowledge, it depends on the house.  You will note that all my tanks had glass tops and were more or less covered (except the gaps at the back).  It wasn't enough.  Dave Patte had a suggestion that the gaps in the stand between tank top and bottom of the next stand rung (i.e the working space above tank) be covered with some sort of flap as well. 

Bruce:  You cannot imagine how the humidity will climb in that room.  I could literally run my dehumidifier 24/7 and the reading never drops below about 52, and that's on a REALLY dry summer day.  In Winter I can't get it below 60.  Note that at consistant 65% humidity, you're risking mold growth.

With one tank sealed I'm confident I'll be ok.  In the future, in Fish Room II, I will have specialized venting to the outside set up.

[bitterman]

the only time my basment gets above 50% was this pas week of very humid wether. In the Winter I actually turn off the Air exchanger to get the humidity in the hour to get in the 40's   I have the dehumidified, but rarely use it. I can drop my house humidity by about 5-10% per day running it during these past few weeks of humid times (I do have air conditioning running right now though also set to 25C in the hose so it doe snot do much).

Bruce

[darkdep]

At my house our AC runs a LOT.  Family likes it cold.  Those levels I reported are WITH the AC running (which drops humidity a lot).  In the winter it's ungodly. 

[Fishnut]

From your recent conversations with the HVAC pros, how do you plan on creating a ventilation system to the outside?  I want to know so I can budget that into the basement renovation for my fish room.

So far, I plan on building it like a bathroom.  It'll have the drywall that is resistant to mold, I'll be tiling the whole room (walls, floor and ceiling if that's even possible) and I'll have one of those bathroom fans that you turn on when you shower or create unpleasant smells (it's already in the spot where my fish room will be).  The fan won't be enough, I'm sure.

[darkdep]

For the new tank, I won't be doing much.  I have a basement window nearby, next spring I may rip it out and install some sort of screen/fan/openable window contraption to help ventilate the room.

When I do my next fish room, which (if it happens in this house) will likely be in the garage, I'll be putting in vent fans to the outside for sure.

[darkdep]

Well, I've spent all day getting tank prices, and contemplating various options.  I realized that I really want an 8foot tank but can't because of the stairs to my basement...

So, I re-researched the idea of building the tank myself out of various materials.  Looked at the Plywood option (cheaper, but much more work and, IMHO, higher risk of leaks unless you use fiberglass with the epoxy), acrylic (OMG way too expensive), and glass.

Glass looks like a winner.  It's more expensive than plywood but there's not really any guesswork; as long as you clean the edges and do the silicone right, you're done!  At this time, it's worth the extra cash.  But, still, it's going to be much cheaper than buying a new tank.  Looks like it's time for a DIY article!

I can get the 8' glass sheets down the stairs easily enough (there's an L turn in the middle, but I've brought 8' 2x4's and 8' strips of drywall down without any issues).  I'll have the glass shop cut all the parts out of 1/2" glass, and build it on the basement floor.  I'll put in a support brace on each end, and 1 or two along the length.  According to several calculators online, this gives a significant safety margin.  I'm getting away with 1/2" glass because I pretty much refuse to make it over 24" tall

So, at my first dimension of 96x24x24, that gives a total volume of 240 gallons.  If I convince myself to make the tank 30" wide, that gives me the magic 300 gallon number!

I will have the bottom glass panel pre-drilled from the glass shop, so once in rough place I'll cut out a square along the plywood top of the stand to make room for the plumbing.  With the tank sumped, possibly with a drilled hole on the side for a return (I want to put the tank back pretty much flat against the wall), I should be able to completely cover the top of the tank with sliding glass to deal with humidity.  Oxygenation will come from the sump area, which will have a much smaller exposed surface area.  I'll probably run an airpump into the sump just to add a little O2.

So...in order to do this I'm gonna need some help...probably 2-3 people.  I'm gonna clear out the first section of the fish wall, get the rough stand built, arrange the glass to be delivered (I think I can do that; if not, the store is literally about a 2 minute drive from my house).  Anyone want to assist in building a big glass tank?  It'll be fun!  The panels will be on the heavy side but by dealing with them one at a time it shouldn't be an issue.

[RossW]

If the timing works, I would love to be part of the experience.  Sadly, I have nothing to offer other than strength  and enthusiasm.

[dan2x38]

How about something Like This?

Google concrete block aquariums....

[darkdep]

OMG I would never get the OK for that

[bitterman]

So, at my first dimension of 96x24x24, that gives a total volume of 240 gallons.  If I convince myself to make the tank 30" wide, that gives me the magic 300 gallon number!

APW why not do 36" wide then the remaing glas from the 4x8 sheet coudl be used for top braces? I find tanks that are wider more like looking into the lake, also great for aquascaping. I sometimes wish my 24" tank was wider.

I will have the bottom glass panel pre-drilled from the glass shop, so once in rough place I'll cut out a square along the plywood top of the stand to make room for the plumbing.  With the tank sumped, possibly with a drilled hole on the side for a return (I want to put the tank back pretty much flat against the wall), I should be able to completely cover the top of the tank with sliding glass to deal with humidity.  Oxygenation will come from the sump area, which will have a much smaller exposed surface area.  I'll probably run an airpump into the sump just to add a little O2.

Why not run a trickle filter? It will highly oxygenate the water!!! and no need for an air pump?

I would probably do 3 1.5" bulkheads along the back of the tank for water into the sump. I would use Durso standpipes http://www.dursostandpipes.com/ For water return you can use 1" bulkheads or also use 1.5" onces and get the bulkheads from a pool shop that have the directional jet on them (Downfall is these woudl be drilled in the back of the tank for the water return).  I would do 3 returns also (You could later on got SW with this setup without changes I would think). I would use acrylic to make the overflows.... Your router would make the nice top notches, Sand the areas silicon would be used to attach them inside the aquarium as silicon doe NOT stick ti acrylics very well. For a return pump i woudl go with either a mag18 or mag24 (This is my first choice)

So...in order to do this I'm gonna need some help...probably 2-3 people.  I'm gonna clear out the first section of the fish wall, get the rough stand built, arrange the glass to be delivered (I think I can do that; if not, the store is literally about a 2 minute drive from my house).  Anyone want to assist in building a big glass tank?  It'll be fun!  The panels will be on the heavy side but by dealing with them one at a time it shouldn't be an issue.

Chris I would be honored to help you, Just book it with my wife LOL She seams to have lots of my time booked.

Bruce

[darkdep]

Thanks for the help Bruce!  36" wide would go beyond what I could get clearance for from the wife. 30" is enough.

A trickle filter into a sump is what I was planning.  What I want to do is maximize oxygen exchange given the fact that I want as much water COVERED as possible.  I'm going to go to rather unusual lengths to control humidity, given that it's the reason I need to shut down the fish room in the first place.

I don't want to drill the back; another option must be found.  I will probably run pipe up the left side of the tank, over the top, and it will route accordingly.  Most of this will be covered by the eventual canopy.  I'll need your help to build the overflows

Mag 18 is going to be my pump; I've already got one incoming.

[beowulf]

I would not mind helping out to learn a little and maybe build one for myself in the future.  When are you planning on doing it?

[darkdep]

As fast as possible.  With my life, that means probably a month or two from now. 

Once the fish room is cleared out I'll start the stand.  I'm just going to build the frame for now, I'll wrap it and make it pretty once the tank is up and running.  That shouldn't take long (a weekend).  After that, I'll get a date on the glass order and arrange an acceptable time with all the volunteers.

Thanks BTW to those who have offered to help!  It'll be educational for all of us.  It'll be hard work tho; those panels are going to be heavy (although nowhere near as heavy as the complete tank would be).  It's going to take some careful moving to get them down the stairs but it can be done.

[audioslave_36]

Well as I said before, you can count me in! 

I am free any weekend you need me an most evenings can be arranged.

Dave

[bitterman]

Thanks for the help Bruce!  36" wide would go beyond what I could get clearance for from the wife. 30" is enough.

A trickle filter into a sump is what I was planning.  What I want to do is maximize oxygen exchange given the fact that I want as much water COVERED as possible.  I'm going to go to rather unusual lengths to control humidity, given that it's the reason I need to shut down the fish room in the first place.

I don't want to drill the back; another option must be found.  I will probably run pipe up the left side of the tank, over the top, and it will route accordingly.  Most of this will be covered by the eventual canopy.  I'll need your help to build the overflows

Mag 18 is going to be my pump; I've already got one incoming.

You could use 2 more holes in the bottom and plumb an upside down u out of PVC and drill it at the top for a spray bar. This way you can feed from both ends of the tank and get full coverage for the stray bar. Also plumbing the spray bar so its in front of the overflows will help decrease the overflow sucking food down them when you feed. I can show you what I mean on my 65 if you are ever out before you build this tank setup.

With braces this tank will be incredibly strong! You are basically turning the tank into a bunch of shorter tanks. I'd use 1' wide braces on the ends and 1-2 1' wide braces in the center section. The more braces the stronger, but you must balance that with accessibility to the tank. Since you are say 24", the tank will not hold that much water (Most likely about 22") so you coudl in fact build the tank a little higher such that you have 24" high of water. The nice thing abou a sump is the water loss occures in the sump and the main water level stays constant.

For air you could totally seal the whole system and build an air exchanger to move air from outside and pass over an aluminum heat exchanger, then into the cabinet of the tank. Just seal everything. You might need some extra heaters, but it might be worth it.  This would ensure next to 0 humidity is in your house from the new tank.

Bruce

[darkdep]

That's a good idea with the spraybar.  An 8 foot spraybar sure would look cool, too   I could use several clip on suction cups to help hold it in place.  Any idea if you can buy PVC pipe in any colour other than white?

I want to be able to have access to the tank; centre braces piss me off when I'm trying to catch fish.  Course, I'll probably never be able to catch a fish in this tank no matter how hard I try.  1" might be too narrow; I might go wider just to be more comfortable against banging and breaking the supports themselves.

I don't want the glass higher; the point is to make it easy to clean.  24" is the max I'm able to clean easily.

[bitterman]

That's a good idea with the spraybar.  An 8 foot spraybar sure would look cool, too   I could use several clip on suction cups to help hold it in place.  Any idea if you can buy PVC pipe in any colour other than white?

PVC is only available in white and grey (That I have seen anyways). I would think about painting the PVC black. Several people on the cichlid forum have used the krylon fusion to pain PVC, you can also use PET?? spelling dye.
http://www.krylonfusion.com/main/product_template.cfm?levelid=5&sub_levelid=10&productid=1751&content=product_details

I would personally just use ABS for plumbing the overflows as it is cheaper and even many SW guys are using it without problems.

I want to be able to have access to the tank; centre braces piss me off when I'm trying to catch fish.  Course, I'll probably never be able to catch a fish in this tank no matter how hard I try.  1" might be too narrow; I might go wider just to be more comfortable against banging and breaking the supports themselves.

1'=1 Foot 

So 1 foot on each end and a 1 foot brace in the center.

To catch fish.. I'll tell you from experience you have to tear the whole tank down... All rock will have to be removed also. Soemtime fish trap work if you starve the fish for a few days before trying to trap them

Have you thought about doing a Water change system to make maintainance easier? You could use the same system I have with some modifications to account for the chlorines. Brita's just use carbon to remove chlorine, so why not? You could drip the water through a carbon box and into the tank? Or a dosing unit?

Bruce

[Mettle]

So... if you build the tank in the basement will you ever be able to get it out if you move?

[beowulf]

So... if you build the tank in the basement will you ever be able to get it out if you move?

LOl i guess it depends on the size he goes!!!  Might be a good selling point to the right person.

[darkdep]

Nope.  "It comes with the house".

Hell may freeze over and the potential buyer may consider it a plus.  But, since that probably won't happen, I'll have to cut it apart and take it in pieces.

As for a waterchange system, yes I want something integrated but it's probably unlikely I'll do a continuous.

[darkdep]

Got my glass quotes today.  Basically, 1/2" (12mm) glass is $12.50 / sq ft.  So, the tank should cost about $775 for the raw glass, then an extra $90 or so for the braces.  $865 + tax.  Not bad for a tank of this size.

I'll need to add a couple of dollars for holes in the bottom (better firm up that design) and it sounds like they will deliver to my house for free as I'm so close.  Rockin!

For those wondering, this cost is MUCH cheaper than purchasing from a retail outlet such as Big Als, but it's pretty much exactly what you'd pay a custom tank builder...I'm not really saving any money.  It's just that I have to go this way to get the exact size I want.  And, the downside to not buying from a retail outlet is, of course, nobody to call and complain to if it leaks

[bitterman]

Got my glass quotes today.  Basically, 1/2" (12mm) glass is $12.50 / sq ft.  So, the tank should cost about $775 for the raw glass, then an extra $90 or so for the braces.  $865 + tax.  Not bad for a tank of this size.

I'll need to add a couple of dollars for holes in the bottom (better firm up that design) and it sounds like they will deliver to my house for free as I'm so close.  Rockin!

For those wondering, this cost is MUCH cheaper than purchasing from a retail outlet such as Big Als, but it's pretty much exactly what you'd pay a custom tank builder...I'm not really saving any money.  It's just that I have to go this way to get the exact size I want.  And, the downside to not buying from a retail outlet is, of course, nobody to call and complain to if it leaks

Now the glass is lined up what about the silicon? What are you going to use? I know Home Hardware caries tubes that states "FOR Aquarium Use" I used it for my resealing a 50. Hmm how many tubes will that take? Mayeb you need buy it by the case LOL

Bruce

[darkdep]

The standard answer..."GE Silicone I in the Blue Tube"!

Actually, I MAY pick it up by the case.  It's about $4 a tube; I figure I'll buy a ridiculous amount and just return what I don't use.

[RossW]

The standard answer..."GE Silicone I in the Blue Tube"!

Does that say "For Aquarium Use" on it?  I am asking as I want to try and "glue" a rock back together and need to purchase some.  Is this stuff available at Home Depot, Home Hardware, etc.?

[PaleoFishGirl]

Have you thought about maybe using 3/4" glass for such a huge tank?? I wonder what the price difference would be.

[darkdep]

I've done calculations based on a few charts on the internet.  I could actually use 3/8" glass with the design I've chosen, but it wouldn't be as safe.  The fact that it's only 24" high makes a huge difference.

GE Silicone I "used to" say Aquarium Safe on it, until GE decided to stop paying to have that certification on the label.  It's still 100% silicone and I've used it many times.

[Iceman]

GE Silicone I "used to" say Aquarium Safe on it, until GE decided to stop paying to have that certification on the label.  It's still 100% silicone and I've used it many times.

I contacted GE about this and APW is correct. Basically GE is saying, if your tank explodes or your fish die, well, that's not our fault. In reality, the stuff is safe.

[bitterman]

APW woudl this work for you?  http://www.jehmco.com/PRODUCTS_/HARDWARE_/Air_Exchanger/air_exchanger.html  Maybe allow you to not sell everything?  At least a good idea for the fish room 2.

Bruce

[Fishnut]

Lol...that's like everything in the grocery store saying "may contain traces of peanuts".  All they want to do is cover their bums.