Planned Pond Build - 2010

[smalltownfan]

I'm planning my pond for next spring. Is there a "too deep". The yard is big and is completely fenced. I've got other work to do so we'll have a Kubota tractor with an excavator  available to dig and move earth. We'd like to go 12-14' long by 8' wide by 6' deep in the middle. Does that depth present problems with aeration or cleaning?

[Rybren]

I'd recommend putting in a bottom drain to feed a gravity flow settling chamber.  It would greatly aid in keeping the bottom clean.  At 6' deep, cleaning the pond would, IMHO, be a real PITA without the drain.

HTH

[Fishnut]

Agreed.  Put a drain FOR SURE!!

If you plan on keeping koi, the deeper the better!  I'll be digging a pond in the spring too.  My guys have out-grown their tub.  Are you using a contractor or are you doing a lot of the work yourself?  That's the only aspect of my yard overhaul that I haven't worked out yet.

Here's what the city has to say about pond/pool plans:

The Pool Enclosure By-Law No. 2001-259, as amended, requires every owner of a privately owned outdoor pool to erect and maintain an enclosure around their pool. Our prime concern is to make the pool inaccessible to small children.

The By-law states, "that no person shall construct or place a pool on his or her property without first obtaining a pool enclosure permit."
A pool is defined as

    * A privately owned outdoor pool of water for swimming, bathing, wading or reflecting which is capable of retaining a water depth equal or greater than 600 mm (24") at any point.

Permit Submission

Pool Enclosure Application Form [ pdf ]

Your completed application form must be submitted with the appropriate fee as noted in Permit Fees along with two sets of plans and specifications. Incomplete applications or drawings will not be processed. Permit application forms are available at all Client Service Centres.

The plan shall consist of a site plan indicating:

    * the proposed location of the pool, and surrounding apron, and its distance from all lot lines, buildings and structures including all decks or sheds

    * the location of all easements, rights-of-way, landscaping features, location of septic beds and tanks, where applicable or retaining walls

    * the proposed location of pool equipment such as the filter, heater or pump

    * the type and height of fence(s) to be constructed and the location of all gates, a detailed construction plan of the fence may also be required

    * location of septic field, tank and wells, if applicable

Pool Requirements

The location of the pool and equipment is often regulated by your local zoning by-law. Staff is available to advise you of specific requirements in your area. Call 3-1-1 for information on zoning, and other approvals that may be required.
Enclosure (Fence) Requirements

Fences shall be designed and installed to reasonably deter children from gaining access to the fenced in area.

Every enclosure shall be at least 1.5 m (5') in height and constructed of:

    * Chain link
    * Closed board or other approved design such that the fence is unclimbable. All openings through or under the fence shall be of a size to prevent the passage of a 100 mm (4") spherical object. Construction details of the fence must be provided as part of your submission.
    * For in-ground pools, a minimum distance of 750 mm (2'6") is required between any part of the fence and the inside face of the pool wall assembly for a continuous distance of at least 50 per cent of the perimeter of the pool.

Although a survey plan is not a minimum submission requirement, it is highly recommended.
Other Considerations to Remember

    * All gates must be equipped with a self-closing and latching device located at the top and inside of the gate.

    * Where a wall of a building forms part of the enclosure, all doors shall also be equipped with self-closing, latching and lockable devices located a minimum 1.35 m (4'6") above the door.

    * All detached self-supported decks facilitating access to a pool that are greater than 10 square meters (108 square feet) require a separate building permit.

    * Removable or swing type ladders used to access above-ground pools are not allowed as part of the required enclosure.

    * Remember to keep all pools, filters and equipment off of any easements.

    * If any electrical work is required, please ensure that a permit is obtained from the Electrical Safety Authority office at 1-877-372-7233.

    * It is an owner's responsibility to "call before you dig". Contact the Ontario One-Call Service at 1-800-400-2255 to arrange for cable locates on your property.

    * The installation of any pool and supporting apron should not change the drainage patterns within 4'0" of any property line. For pools or supporting aprons located within 4'0" of a property line, a grading plan to the satisfaction of the Infrastructure Approvals Division, is to be submitted with the Pool Enclosure application submission package.

    * Hydro Ottawa regulates minimum clearances for above grade electrical conductors adjacent to and over pools. Contact 613-738-6418 for specific information.

For more information, please visit a City of Ottawa Client Service Centre or call 3-1-1 (TTY: 613-580-2401).

I think the pool permit is a ridiculous $125.00...I hope I'm wrong about that though.

[smalltownfan]

Sorry for the delay in responding - too busy!

Thanks for the info Sylvia and Rybren. There's no such thing as too much info.

I snapped a few pics of the planned location. The old ties will be removed and the area sloped. We should be able to get at least 12' of streambed. This will be the location for many of the plants.

[attachment deleted by admin]

[Fishnut]

Very nice!  How did you get such an established looking yard with a newly built house?

There's a place in Toronto that I plan on visiting some time either this winter or early in the spring that does custom pond installations.  They sell all the good pumps, drains, plumbing and filters, etc. needed for a large pond like that.  The way they work is that you bring your plans to your appointment, and for $75, get a consultation on improving the concept to make it work properly and they'll outline what pump and filter arrangement you should be getting, etc.  Depending on how much advice you need, maybe we should do a road trip and share the gas.

I was kinda hoping that we could get the owner to come to OVAS to do a talk on ponds...getting him to come over to do a consultation in my back yard  .

[smalltownfan]

Very nice!  How did you get such an established looking yard with a newly built house? The house we bought is 18 years old.

There's a place in Toronto Who is it? Website? that I plan on visiting some time either this winter or early in the spring that does custom pond installations.  They sell all the good pumps, drains, plumbing and filters, etc. needed for a large pond like that.  The way they work is that you bring your plans to your appointment, and for $75, get a consultation on improving the concept to make it work properly and they'll outline what pump and filter arrangement you should be getting, etc.  Depending on how much advice you need,Lots! maybe we should do a road trip and share the gas. I'm in for that for sure, we'll get together re: details

I was kinda hoping that we could get the owner to come to OVAS to do a talk on ponds..Great idea!.getting him to come over to do a consultation in my back yard  . If a few people got together, it could be worth it for several people

[Fishnut]

http://www.clarkekoi.com/

[ED209]

hi

i am a professional landscaper with extensive experience in ponds and water features
as far as depth's go the main point from your prospective is to keep your fish out of range of predators like raccoons and herons if you see a fisher at your pond shoot it or call an expert to remove it they are very very aggressive and will kill a fair size dog.
also the ground you plan to excavate may contain any number of surprises not marked on you site plan depending on you location and the time at which your house was constructed anything from scrap building material to unmarked utilities might be under there please get locates done to indicate the presence of power water or gas lines in the area you don't want to hit the gas line with the excavator it could blow and flatten your house prolly neighbors too.
if your site is good and free of subterranean headaches you only need to go about 3-4 feet down to get out of the range of herons. fishers are as part of the weasel family great swimmers if they are hungry enough they will eat your fish no mater how deep the pond is.
another point you should address is soil particularly how to keep it from falling back in the hole very sandy soil types might collapse making more work especially if the kubota falls in. also if you make the pond so deep that you need to climb in to do the maintenance you may puncture the liner in a sandy situation this will be the worst possible nightmare and mean a total do over and maybe many dead fish one client i had many years ago had us build a koi pond 9 feet deep with a 20  x 15 foot irregular surface the fist liner was 10 mm pvc but do to the shape we had assemble it in three pieces the client was quite a large women and insisted in scrambling around in the pond she stressed one of the seems and it gave 30 tonnes of sand and thousands of gallons of water make one really big mess thankfully she only lost a hand full of fish but the project had to be totally rebuild. she had a contact within the military had got hundreds of sand bags which were used to form the shape of the pond in the second construction and we used a much bigger liner one piece this time ponds still perfect.
as far as filters and airation there are loads of filter choices to pick from but that depends on your bio load if you plan to have a stream or water feature included in you build try and include a few small waterfalls in the stream or at least include one as the stream enters the pond letting the water splash and mix with the air will do wonders and add a calming background sound to your over all landscape but don't over do it high volumes of water falling into your pond might upset the fish and could dislodge aquatic plantings not to mention make a hell of a racket and have your guests spending a lot of time in the bathroom

big ponds take lots of work to build you may do well to consult a professional and be prepared to make some changes. my advice is go to the local home show and talk to some of the landscape contractors and then go from there
                                     

[smalltownfan]

hi

big ponds take lots of work to build you may do well to consult a professional and be prepared to make some changes. my advice is go to the local home show and talk to some of the landscape contractors and then go from there
                                     

Being from out of town I had forgotten about the home show. Any idea on when it is?

[ED209]

i'm going to be there for the whole thing my company has been doing it for the past two years and yet i have no idea when it is exactly last year it was march the weekend of the 27th my guess is that it will be last weekend in march at lansdown park or field what ever it is now where the football stadium is or was i wish they would make up their collective mind about what to do there i'll talk to my boss and let you know exactly
   

[Fishnut]

http://www.ottawahomeshow.com/ME2/Sites/Default.asp?SiteID=3D9B4854F411475EB0FB5C020DD98BCA

We went last year.  If you have lots of renos to do in your house and need to check out products, find contractors, etc it's the place to go.  If you're just going to check out landscapers, it's not worth it.  I talked to most of the landscapers there last year and they had no idea how to make a pond other than the typical 18" - 24" deep pond that looks pretty for a small fortune. They have no concept of what's good for the fish becaise most of the people who put ponds in aren't fish keepers...they're plant keepers that have a few "decorative fish".

IMO, if you want a garden with a water feature, landscapers are fantastic.  If you want a fish pond in your garden, you're going to have to figure everything out yourself and give the contractors direction.

[The Pond Boy]

Hi,

There are 2 kind of ponds, a koi pond and the water garden pond. They are build complete different. In the City of Ottawa, you are allowed to build a pond 24" deep without a fence. If you are going deeper, you need a permit and you need a fence 5' high arround the pond, not arround your garden or property. So we build 90% of our ponds about 26" deep and cover the liner with 2" or riverwash.

A good pond koi must be at least 4-6' deep, and you use no bolders and riverwash. Also you use a compete different filter system. Also in the 4-6' koi pond, you will can/will loose some koi in the winter, same as in the 2' pond.

Again, it is all what you want, the best for the fish or a beautifull water garden. I think the installation of a real koi pond or the water garden is not much difference, the koi pond will be most likely more expensive.
Thanks,

Greg Veldhuizen
The Pond Boy

[ED209]

your right lots of guys will put in a tiny pond install it wrong and charge a fortune with out those guys like mike holms would be out of work

i like to think if some one is going to build something for some one at the end of the day the client should be happy and the builder can be proud if you build it your self you get the best of both happy with the project and proud of the accomplishment
broken back blistered hands sore feet are all part of the fun   

Greg is absolutely right, what we do is subject to laws and by laws and fence codes the list go's on and on he builds more ponds than we do people are asking us more for pond less water features due to these same laws and codes and space constraints... just once I'd like a free hand to build a pond but i fear as long as Ottawa keeps building giant houses on tiny lots it shall never be

I know that many landscapers don't know a koi from koala but i know at least two who are into fish enough to be on here we're not all just into plants       

[The Pond Boy]

You are right, there are 2 things important when you choose a contractor:
- He need to know what he is doing
- He need to care about the client
Thanks,

Greg Veldhuizen
The Pond Boy

[smalltownfan]

You are right, there are 2 things important when you choose a contractor:
- He need to know what he is doing
- He need to care about the client
Thanks,

Greg Veldhuizen
The Pond Boy

And it helps if he's a Nederlander. Dutchmen and building water systems are a natural.  ;-)

I'll be contacting you soon Greg.