Discus problems

[fishycanuck]

 

I have purchased discus from a very reputable local breeder. I bought two pigeon blood and three blue turk. The BT turned pale and died within about two weeks. I was in discussion with the breeder and we could not discern the problem. The pigeons are very healthy.

I waited about two weeks, then purchased 4 more BT. I have had them for about a week, and one died already. The remaining three are a bit pale. All three come when I put beefheart in the water, only one has nibbled. One spat it out several times, the other didn't go for it at all.

Did a 50% pwc today. The pH of this tank ranges from 6-6.4, and the nitrates are never above 5. I have been doing about 20% pwc twice a week. I use municipal water and my other tank is fine, no illnesses.

All of the fish are hanging out near the surface and all of the snails have appeared on the glass – seems to me they're a bit of a canary in the coal mine. The other fish in the tank include dwarf kuhli loaches, black skirt tetra, glow light tetra, and a crayfish - who leaves them alone.

Suggestions?

[Fishnut]

What's the temp?

What are the ammonia and nitrite levels?

Here's what I would do right away:

Take the crayfish out for starters.  90% of them are cool water crayfish and should not be in discus temps.  You also might not notice the crayfish picking on them because crayfish are nocturnal hunters.

Turn the heat up to 90 degrees...gradually over a few days..

Treat with prazi because your other fish who appear healthy could be carriers for something that is affecting the discus because the discus are more sensitive and stressed so are prone to what the other fish are potentially carrying.

When doing a water change, mix the water conditioner before adding the fresh water to the tank.

Check the water conditioner to make sure it removes Chloramine, not just chlorine.

[robt18]

Make sure they have somewhere to hide... movement inside and outside the tank scares the daylights out of them...

Make sure the tetras, loaches etc. aren't scaring them either. If there are small, faster fish eating the food the discus might look interested but they won't eat it.

I've had issues a lot of the time when adding numerous discus to a tank. I've found the best way is to QT them separately, add one to the main tank, then add the other a week later. Don't know why this works but all of mine have accustomized to their tanks much better this way.

[pushbuttonstart]

Hi,

How big are your fish? Your sig says 40 gallons. Not bad if they're young but small if they're medium to large...

How long has the tank been running? Do you have gravel? A lot of snails usually mean a lot of stuff in the gravel. Accumulation of lots of stuff in the gravel is not good for discus.

Black skirts are relatively cold watered tetras. And big if your discus are small. Might want to reconsider the tankmates. I would never keep a crayfish with discus.

As stated raise the temp to something close to 30.

My advice would be to grow out the discus in a bare bottom tank until they get to about 4"...they're pretty indestructible once you raise strong healthy fish. Much easier to control their environment in a bare bottom. They eat LOTS when they're young so you need to be able to clean up after them.

I'd probably go for a larger tank with 6 adult discus too.

Good Luck

[fischkopp]

I would like to add my thoughts, some of these came up already:

• A bit more information about the tank: size, temperature, bare bottom or gravel, filtration, how long running, planted, ammonia/nitrite?
• Fish at the surface is a bad sign. This usually calls for an immediate 50-90% water change. If this happens again in the following days, increase the water change schedule. Personally, 20% twice a week is not enough, not matter what size the tank is. Go for min two 50% water changes per week, better very other day. This is the most important rule for keeping discus: Nothing is better than fresh water.
• Add a powerful airstone if you don't have one already. At temperatures around 30 deg Celsius, oxygen tend to run low quick.
• Feeding beafheart. Be careful, any uneaten food pollutes the water a lot more than conventional food. If you have gravel, its mostly going to waste, increases the load on the  bio filter and depletes a lot more oxygen. Don't feed it often, try to do your water changes afterwards. Try other foods as well. Flake or pellet food is just as good, if not even better. The advantage of beefheart is solely it's low expense. I raised my discus fro, 2 1/2 to 6+ inch (almost) completely without beef heart.
• Pale fish is a sign of stress. That could have any reason, first of all water (water changes, temperature, NH3, NO2, O2, filtration), others are for example: strong light , tank mates annoying, environment around the tank to busy (vibrations), ... ; find out what is stressing the fish by eliminating all possible options.

Hope this helps. Good luck!

[fishycanuck]

Hi all
Thanks for your comments. The tank is in fact 56 gallons and the temp ranges from 84-86 degrees. There is quite a bit of gravel which I am going to remove and clean. There are no real plants.
I don't have test kits for ammonia and nitrite but will get some tonight.
PWC quantity and frequency for discus appears controversial. That being said, I will be doing more changes and more frequently until this is sorted.

[fishycanuck]

Update:
This evening I did a 90% pwc and removed the gravel and plastic plants. They are soaking in peroxide. Phew! What a stink. No wonder the fish were unhappy. I used to keep plecos to eat the leftover food but was told they don't go well with discus. Guess the loaches couldn't keep up!
I bought another test kit. Unsurprisingly, after such a major water change, Ammonia, Nitrite and NitrAte are 0. pH is 6.8. Temp is 86 F
I added a bubbler (the @#Q($@$@# airstone was broken when I brought it home, will exchange) and some anti-parasitic fish food. I could not find plain praziquantel or Quick Cure, this was the closest.

[Fishnut]

That sounds great!  If the gravel smelled that bad, the fish are hopefully going to perk up quickly now that it's been removed.

Did you take out the crayfish?

[fishycanuck]

Two of the crayfish were dispatched, but two resisted arrest. I'll try to catch them tomorrow.

[fishycanuck]

What a great idea for a forum!
The discus are doing well.
I purchased a bubbler/airstone setup but the airstone was broken. Have exchanged the airstone.... not sure it's working as I do not see any bubbles coming to the surface. How do I know the airstone is helping?