Help! Pagoda coral not feeling well!

[Amy]

My pagoda coral is dying !  

I've had it for a couple of months, in my 10g, then placed it in my 35g. It's not super high in my tank but it's not in the middle either. I have powercompacts for lighting, my water paramaters that I could test at home are 0 nitrates, 0.25-0.50 phosphate, calcium level is at 420, salinity 1.025, my alkilinity is incredibly high I don't know what my PH is. I do water changes every 2 weeks, but will do one tonight. Last one was a week ago.

When I bought it, it had on small bubble algae attached to it, and the algae has been growing on it ever since. I have an emerald crab in my tank but never noticed him eating the bubbles, now it looks like it's eating a chunk of the coral! I tried picking at it, but it's too small, and I'm afraid to spread the algae everywhere.

Two weeks ago, there was this brown film that started peeling from the coral, I removed what was hanging and moved the coral because I thought it was burning ( turning white in the middle, polyps becoming smaller etc.)  I placed it lower in the tank. When I moved it, it looks as if it was gonna survive after all, it was eating brine shrimp and the polyps began to grow back again. But today I saw the brown film detaching from its surface again, and I'm really afraid of losing it. It's not near any other corals, or aiptasia nothing.

Could it be the bubble algae causing all this?

I took a picture of it today, It never looked this worse.



The only coral I have ever lost is my goniopora, everyone else are doing great.

Thanks for the help

[redbelly]

The bubble algae may be irritating it but its certainly not killing it.

You say your alk is crazy high. How high?

[Amy]

Like higher then 12, maybe 14-15 :/ I don't know what to do about it. I'm doing a major water change tonight and will probably change salt. I use Instant Ocean and read on the forum that it makes the alkalinity levels really high... So Ièm guessing it may be the cause.  I only supplement with bio-calcium from time to time since my calcium level was around 380 before. I don't use anything else for the moment, this tank is still fairly new (like not even 2 months) So I haven't finished figuring out what else I should put in my tank, like supplements.

My pagoda looks ravaged...  It used to look like this before:



Huge green polyps everywhere... and now it's turning white, peeling and some polyps have rectracted to the point you barely see them... that's why I'm a bit freaked out by it. It was feeling really great and in a matter of a day, it looked like it was burned away... I panicked and I immediately moved it to the bottom of my tank, thinking it was the lighting.

I've also moved it away from a strong water flow, it looked like it wasn't helping at all ... should I put it back to its original spot, would it help?  And can I just break the piece of the coral that's being taken over by the bubbles?  I tried pulling at them, but it's really impossible...

I didn't think it would get this uncontrollable, especially after reading on a couple of sites that they we're ''reef safe'' and wouldn't harm corals...

Thanks for the reply

[redbelly]

Yeah your alk is WAY too high.
This could definately be one part of the issue. I cant say for sure though as I have never had my alk go anywhere near that high before.

Biocal does also contain a fair amount of alk though so stop dosing bio cal right now.

Typically these like a moderate water flow but can tollerate high or low flow areas. I normally find that these corals are really not picky at all...

Pick the bubble algae off or leave it and get an emerald crab. Either way its not what is causing your piece to close up like this. I did notice that in your first pic the pagoda is sliming up big time! this is never a god sign....

Check the alk of your fresh sw.

Natural Sea water is around a 7dKh, so if you are up in the 14-15 range then currently that would be the first thing I would look at changing.

[Amy]

I'm doing a water change right now... Can you explain to me why my alk is so high but my calcium level normal? I thought it was the same ratio... My calcium is not over 500 if I test it..
Is there a way to lower the alk without doing a water change, is there a product that does that?
And last question, I can't test my PH at the moment, but if my alk is high, does this mean my Ph is high too?

Thanks a lot for the help again, it is really appreciated!

[redbelly]

What is the alk level of the salt that you are currently using?

Plus you are dosing an additive that raises your Ca, Alk and Mg as opposed to using seperate additives to raise each respectively.
While Biocal may work for some (i actually think this is a great product!!), it is obviously not working well for you at present.

If you have little to no coral demand for alk, and you are doing regular water changes with fresh salt water with an alk of +12dKh then you are going to have chronically high alk.

[kole18]

i used hanna checker for alk & cal very accurate & i keep my alk 100 to 120ppm which is ocean sea water level 120ppm, i dose 1 spoon of dkh buff every 3rd day or 2x a week, bio-cal every 2nd day to keep my cal 380-420ppm. I'd find that IO isn't the salt will give you enough of cal & alk, maybe you used the bio-cal everyday that causes of high alk. my tank size is 70g i've got mostly sps coral & i don't dose bio-cal everyday if you do that then the chances is to have a problem w/ alk & cal to raise up also need to check your calcium too if its high or low. i know mscape they used 1 scoop of bio-cal everyday at their main display tank 90g & they've got a lot of corals in that tank, as well at the centre tank for sps tank 4 scoop of bio-cal everyday too, to mentain the cal & alk. but your's small tank maybe less to add a bio-cal  & besides you don't have a heavy load of corals in your tank i would say atleast 2x a week. bio-cal has alk mix in it so gotta becarefull using this addietives &  that's why not many people don't need to used alk buff for bio-cal because its already mix w/alk. i used dkh buff it just because i've got clams & lot's of sps coral it really needs my tank all this.

[Amy]

At first I used the biocal everyday, 1 spoon, but then lowered it to 3 times a week... I didn't think it was going to raise the alk so much!  Some people told me to put bio-cal everyday, non stop to keep my levels stable...  It was 320ppm  If I didn't add anything, and kept the calcium at around 420-440.  I'll stop using it for a complete week, and just add it once a week, test everytime I add it. My calcium isn't as high as the alk though...

Redbelly:  It doesn't say anything about the alk and other additives on my salt bag...


Anyways, thanks guys, I'll test my paramaters today again, if it's still too high, I'll do another water change. Hopefully my pagoda will be okay after.


Thanks a lot for the help guys!!

[kole18]

alk its crazy though it change so fast, that's why im using dkh buffer every 3rd day & for bio-cal believe me there is a amount of alk in it, as well in your salt too. by the way do you have a skimmer in your tank? since your getting a load of corals in your tank plus your adding a suppliment for your livestock skimmer is one of big factor for your tank, i know some they don't use skimmer for smaller tank like you. i would suggest if you don't have better to have atleast smaller 1 so help a bit to balance everything in your tank. plus your tank is new let it settle for a bit time, maybe nitrate spike you know a lot of causes why corals aren't doing ok for example over feeding is one of problem too & im like what i did before some of my corals really browned out others just bleached...do you run carbon & phos or something in your tank, this will help to your all inverts & some corals really sensitive. for my tank i have 70g im running bio-pellets w/ phos/carbon, well you could see how corals will rethrive back again & im just fellow reefers just wanted to share some thoughts of keeping a healthy reef tank
don't you worry your tank is gonna be ok 

[Amy]

I have a skimmer but I need to change it. it's the Coralife super skimmer 65 and it doens't skim sometimes, I tried washing it but it didn't help... It wasn't making any bubbles the past 3 days. I don't over feed, I know what it does, I give the strict minimum and I almost target-feed everything. I don't have any carbon, I thought I read somewhere it wasn't safe. I run an aquaclear 30 too, It traps a lot of stuff like sand, but I only put foam in it. Will the aqua clear carbon be okay for saltwater? I still have some..

I'm still not done buying/setting all the stuff for my tank,  and I definitely need to pick up the bio-pellets, I keep hearing  good stuff about it.

I've made one big mistake today... I made another water change, 40% this time, yesterday I only did about 15%...
I threw all the water away and realised AFTER I didn't have enough salt! I gotta wait for my husband to get back home and pick that up... So disappointed in myself!!

All my other corals are doing really great, except for the pagoda, and my new toadstool who has a hard time opening, it keeps falling or I keep knocking it by accident!

here's a pic I took last night:



I still can't believe I made a stupid error like that... It's not like it's my first tank! I really need to be more careful and READ LABELS! And now I'm putting on the breaks... My husband is always tempting to buy more corals, fish and inverts everytime we go to the LFS.  I'll save some money for a tunze skimmer and some new powerheads! 

Thank you again for the help!  Your words are reassuring! I really needed to calm down, I haven't slept well the past 2 days.

[redbelly]

Nice looking tank!

Did I read correctly that your tank is only a couple of months old?
Thise red sponges are a VERY challenging coral, especially for a young tank.

When you get your new batch of salt, test the parameters of the freshly made sw. The new bag/bucket could be fine, and maybe your last batch was just coming in with high alk.

[Amy]

Thanks! Just bought a new bag of reef salt so I'm doing more water changes at the moment. 

I bought the sponge at Aqua valley, but Az never said how diffuclt they were, I wouldn't have bought it if I knew... I went to read on it, found out it needs a lot of shade so I moved it under some rocks... Hope it survives.
I was gonna buy a blue sponge this week, but I think I'll wait another year

[Amy]

After doing a 60% water change, My alk is at 13, calcium level 440ppm... I'll continue doing water changes everyday til it drops.  Is there something I can buy that will help lower the alk a bit?

[kole18]

Don't add anything & save your salt too wait for a few days alk is dropping off your cal its ok but don't go crazy let it be like that all you gotta do is make sure your skimmer is working.

[az]

your tank is not new, you moved everything from a 3yr old tank, proper feeding and little less light for the sponge, age of tank has nothing to do with it, pagoda is fine, if one spot is not opening its something bothering that area, if it was water quality/parameters then it wont be the just the one spot in pagoda but the whole pagoda not opening.

from the pic(around the middle), why is the green tip frogspawn not opening?

[Amy]

The picture was taken in the morning, everything was small, the frogspawn gets really huge during the day though. I redecorated again, I have way more space with the new skimmer! I'll take another picture of the tank soon when everyone will be fully opened. Thanks for the Info and we are absolutely satisfied with the skimmer, it's awesome, the water is crystal clear.  Now I need one or two nice liverock piece, tank looks empty!!

[redbelly]

After doing a 60% water change, My alk is at 13, calcium level 440ppm... I'll continue doing water changes everyday til it drops.  Is there something I can buy that will help lower the alk a bit?

What are the parameters of the freshly mixed sw though?

If the salt you are putting in has a Ca of 440 ppm and a Alk of 13dKh then your alk will never come down.
If you salt is mixing up at these levels there is not really anything you can do but let your levels come down as it is consumed by the corals...

[Amy]

I didn't test the old saltwater, but this one has a calcium level of 370ppm if the salinity is at 1.021, that's what's written on the bag. I had no choice but to buy Instant Ocean reef crystals, it was the only salt available when I went to big al's (other stores we're closed). I bought a new reef octopus skimmer yesterday though, I'll just wait it out, everyone seems pretty happy and the water is crystal clear this morning. My inverts are still alive and well, and the pagoda looks like he's doing better. His polyps are stretching out more, so I'll take that as a recovery sign!


Thanks everyone

[kole18]

in a few days your parameters will drop down, because corals are consuming it. for alk this is so crazy it will drop quick just a matter of day for cal but slowly will drop too. if your changing another batch of water w/salt meaning this will reise your cal & alk too. by the way your salinity is very low you gotta have at least 1,024 or 1.25 salinity that is the safe level for sea water & look on this parameter bar.

http://www.reefkeeping.com/issues/2004-05/rhf/index.php

[Amy]

Yeah that's exactly what I said to myself, especially with that salt, If I change too much water, it's just gonna go up more! That's why I kept it at 1.021, now my salinity is back to 1.025, I always keep it at that usually. I just wanted to do a massive water change and redo everything, I even took out some live rock and moved the powerheads, changed all the corals placement. I have a stronger current above the water and behing the rocks.  My parameters today are Alk at 9, calcium at 420 ppm, Ph is 8.2, nitrate 0, phosphate 0! . I also bought phosban for my aquaclear, and with the new skimmer, my water has never been clearer. My corals are way more opened now.

Just have to wait for that pagoda to get better! At least, it stopped sliming all over the place


Thanks for the help once again