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Aquarist Forums => Equipment / DIY => Topic started by: PuddleDuck on February 24, 2007, 09:21:58 AM

Title: Quick lighting question
Post by: PuddleDuck on February 24, 2007, 09:21:58 AM
Can I throw a compact florescent bulb into my regular fixture (a hagen canopy light)? I'd like to have some decent plants for once!  ;D

Just seeing if I can get away with just the bulbs  ;)

Thanks!
Title: Re: Quick lighting question
Post by: charlie on February 24, 2007, 09:31:42 AM
Quote from: PuddleDuck on February 24, 2007, 09:21:58 AM
Can I throw a compact florescent bulb into my regular fixture (a hagen canopy light)? I'd like to have some decent plants for once!  ;D

Just seeing if I can get away with just the bulbs  ;)

Thanks!
No , the Ballast & end caps ( tips ) are different. They are retro kits available & DIY parts available @ some lighting stores in Ottawa
Regards
Title: Re: Quick lighting question
Post by: PuddleDuck on February 24, 2007, 09:46:25 AM
 :P Not the answer I was hoping for!

Thanks!
Title: Re: Quick lighting question
Post by: gonzobluefuzz on February 24, 2007, 09:46:50 AM
Bulbs only nope : :'( sorry...If yer somewhat handy you could try a mod kit and upgrade your fixture. http://www.ahsupply.com/ (http://www.ahsupply.com/) might be a place to look

g

Title: Re: Quick lighting question
Post by: PuddleDuck on February 24, 2007, 09:55:53 AM
Thanks!

Im thinking I might want to just buy the whole shebang so I can use the lights on another tank now...

I was looking at the compact fluorescents because I dont like that the T5 fixtures are so far above the tank. I dont want an open top on the tank and my couch sits blow the lights (if you know what I mean) so I'd be looking at the tank and looking into lights.

Is there an advantage to either T5 or CP?
If I get a T5 setup does it have to sit to far above the tank or can I sit the lights right on the glass?


I was looking at this, thoughts are appreciated.
http://www.petsandponds.com/securestore/c293075p16873717.2.html (http://www.petsandponds.com/securestore/c293075p16873717.2.html)


Adding, the T5 are cheaper on this site than the CP....so I'd like to go cheap if I can!
Title: Re: Quick lighting question
Post by: charlie on February 24, 2007, 10:10:39 AM
Quote from: PuddleDuck on February 24, 2007, 09:55:53 AM
Thanks!

Im thinking I might want to just buy the whole shebang so I can use the lights on another tank now...

I was looking at the compact fluorescents because I dont like that the T5 fixtures are so far above the tank. I dont want an open top on the tank and my couch sits blow the lights (if you know what I mean) so I'd be looking at the tank and looking into lights.

Is there an advantage to either T5 or CP?
If I get a T5 setup does it have to sit to far above the tank or can I sit the lights right on the glass?


I was looking at this, thoughts are appreciated.
http://www.petsandponds.com/securestore/c293075p16873717.2.html (http://www.petsandponds.com/securestore/c293075p16873717.2.html)


Adding, the T5 are cheaper on this site than the CP....so I'd like to go cheap if I can!


Those lights have multiple ways of mounting them, the can sit on top of the glass as well, btw that is good price for the fixture & bulbs, Superpet is selling the fixture without the bulbs foe 169.99 the Hagen bulbs are another 50.00 each approx, but there are cheaper bulbs available.
Regards
Title: Re: Quick lighting question
Post by: PuddleDuck on February 24, 2007, 10:19:12 AM
Thats good to know- its free shipping too  ;D
Title: Re: Quick lighting question
Post by: PuddleDuck on February 24, 2007, 10:20:20 AM
ok before I blow 200$ on this- I should have no problem growing happy healthy plants with these?

Title: Re: Quick lighting question
Post by: charlie on February 24, 2007, 10:27:21 AM
Quote from: PuddleDuck on February 24, 2007, 10:20:20 AM
ok before I blow 200$ on this- I should have no problem growing happy healthy plants with these?
What is the size of the tank ? also depends on other factors , type of plants ( light requirement), nutrients ect.
Regards
Title: Re: Quick lighting question
Post by: PuddleDuck on February 24, 2007, 10:28:59 AM
80g.


Also, with a T5 double fixture its 54 watts per bulb x 2 = 108watts on my 80 gallon. This doesnt sound like a lot. I *think* my regular florescents on there now are 65 watt x 2. I'm hoping for the price that I'm missing something!  ???


Thsanks for all your help  ;D
Title: Re: Quick lighting question
Post by: pitabread on February 24, 2007, 12:28:02 PM
There's a lot of factors in rigging up lighting.  Dimensions of the tank, type of reflectors used, type of lighting (T5 and PC are good).  Not to mention what plants you want.

150 watts would probably be a decent low-medium light setup.  150-250 watts for higher lighting.  Note that are higher light levels, you'll be wanting to inject CO2 and dose with ferts.  Otherwise, you're inviting algae problems.

FWIW, I have 125 watts on my 48 gallon tank (2x30W T8, 1x65W Power Compact) with a polished aluminium reflector, pressurized CO2 and regular fert dosing.  I haven't had too much trouble growing most plants in those conditions.
Title: Re: Quick lighting question
Post by: PoisonJello on February 24, 2007, 04:12:16 PM
I have noticed a lot of people say you need so many watts for the size of tank but doesn't that depend of the type of fixture you are going to use

T5, T8, T12, etc.. for instance the T5 is lower watts but they put out just as much light as the higher watt T8, T12, etc. (or at least that is what i have been told by CFI, you know the company that makes most light fixtures) so doesn't that make the watts chart a bit wrong, or maybe thats just my way of thinking

better example: a normal bulb is 60 watts but the energy saver bulb is only 13 watts for the same amount of light

so doesn't that mean the amount of watts you need depends on the type of fixture you want to use
Title: Re: Quick lighting question
Post by: PoisonJello on February 24, 2007, 04:16:15 PM
Quote from: PuddleDuck on February 24, 2007, 09:21:58 AM
Can I throw a compact florescent bulb into my regular fixture (a hagen canopy light)? I'd like to have some decent plants for once!  ;D

Just seeing if I can get away with just the bulbs  ;)

Thanks!
when you say regular fixture if you mean an incandesent fixture then yes you could use energy saver bulbs which some people call compact florescent
Title: Re: Quick lighting question
Post by: kennyman on February 24, 2007, 07:08:51 PM
Quote from: PoisonJello on February 24, 2007, 04:12:16 PM
I have noticed a lot of people say you need so many watts for the size of tank but doesn't that depend of the type of fixture you are going to use


It does to some extent. Lumen rating for bulbs will help you to see the difference between the types. But you also have to factor in the spectrum for how much PAR you get out of the lumen as well. It is a mess that is sometimes better left alone. I was told this buy an experienced aquatic horticulturist a year or two ago and am finally begining to grasp how problematic trying to use Lumen to rate lighting really is  ::)
Title: Re: Quick lighting question
Post by: pitabread on February 24, 2007, 08:00:57 PM
Quote from: PoisonJello on February 24, 2007, 04:12:16 PM
so doesn't that mean the amount of watts you need depends on the type of fixture you want to use

Oh definitely.  As I said, you have to factor in type of lighting/bulbs, type of reflectors, distance from tank, height from tank.

That's why watts alone is just a suggested range.  It can take a bit of trail 'n error.  Best thing to do is start with X amount of light, see how the plants do, then add more if needed.
Title: Re: Quick lighting question
Post by: PuddleDuck on March 05, 2007, 07:35:06 PM
How about this?

http://ovas.ca/index.php?topic=14829.msg112611;boardseen#new (http://ovas.ca/index.php?topic=14829.msg112611;boardseen#new)


would this be good for growing plants?
Title: Re: Quick lighting question
Post by: BigDaddy on March 05, 2007, 08:23:45 PM
Yes, that is more than enough light for most plants.  You'll definately need a CO2 setup if you intend to run that over your 80 gallon ...
Title: Re: Quick lighting question
Post by: charlie on March 05, 2007, 08:32:58 PM
Quote from: PuddleDuck on March 05, 2007, 07:35:06 PM
How about this?

http://ovas.ca/index.php?topic=14829.msg112611;boardseen#new (http://ovas.ca/index.php?topic=14829.msg112611;boardseen#new)


would this be good for growing plants?
the Actinic bulbs wont be too helpful in growing plants.
Regards
Title: Re: Quick lighting question
Post by: PuddleDuck on March 05, 2007, 10:26:19 PM
Thanks guys.

Why the CO2 setup? I ran one years ago but had a disaster and have been afraid of them since...Im just wondering why better lighting will require one.
Title: Re: Quick lighting question
Post by: garnpet on March 05, 2007, 10:33:29 PM
All you wanted to know and then some....

http://www.rexgrigg.com/
Title: Re: Quick lighting question
Post by: babblefish1960 on March 05, 2007, 10:35:06 PM
I wouldn't call it better lighting, rather more lighting. Once you leave the realm of low and medium lighting with plants, the supply and demand of CO2 is outstripped in production by the needs of the plants, as they are forced to meet the excess light provision faster than your tank conditions can produce it. High light tanks aren't that simple really, as you will find that many nutrients and required elements will be in short supply as plants don't eat rocks, they have roots for something, so you have to make a balanced chemical soup they can survive on reasonably. There is a lot of science and monitoring in this end of planted tanks, so expect a lot of hit and miss and mistakes, there is much research to be done in this arena.
Title: Re: Quick lighting question
Post by: PuddleDuck on March 05, 2007, 10:46:46 PM
*cry* I just want nice plants!

So how much is a CO2 setup cost...I dont want to use the one I had because whatever regulates the bubbles broke and killed off my tank.  :'(



Thanks for your help guys, I appreciate it.


Ok...whats better:  Double Linear Strip with 4-65 watt 6700 K Compact Fluorescent Lamps or T5 High Output 48" Double Light Fixture - With 2-Lifeglo II 54Watt T5 High Output Bulbs? The first one has 260w and the second only has 108 but then theyre differnt types.

Sorry guys Im lighting inept.
Title: Re: Quick lighting question
Post by: babblefish1960 on March 05, 2007, 11:06:18 PM
This isn't actually a true statement, but compact fluorescents are nothing more than t-5's that bend back on themselves. If you think on it this way, it becomes simpler to choose.

The life glo works out to 1.35 watts per gallon, though with the reflectors it uses, makes better use of the light, however, this really makes it a low light arrangement.

4 lamp CF fixture puts a punch of 3.25 watts per gallon, and this is the higher end of medium lighting.

When you look at it simply, they are completely different, so hard to compare.

What you need to decide, is what sort of plants you want and match the lighting to this, or what sort of light you want, and match the plants to what is then available.

As for the cost of CO2, it depends on what you want to do. Pressurized is more reliable and less work, but requires a few hundred dollars. Homemade stuff is cheaper, less effective at getting the right amount throughout the tank reliably and consistently, but hey, money matters sometimes. If you don't want the fear of losing fish, stay away from needing CO2 added and stick to the lower light requiring plants.
Title: Re: Quick lighting question
Post by: PuddleDuck on March 05, 2007, 11:08:22 PM
Ok...lots to mull over.  ???

Again, thanks to everyone for their imput!
Title: Re: Quick lighting question
Post by: pitabread on March 06, 2007, 12:00:39 AM
Quote from: PuddleDuck on March 05, 2007, 10:46:46 PM
*cry* I just want nice plants!

I felt the same way when I tried planting my 48 gallon under only 60 watts of NO lighting.  Here I am two years later, and I've got 125 watts and pressurized CO2.

QuoteSo how much is a CO2 setup cost...I dont want to use the one I had because whatever regulates the bubbles broke and killed off my tank.  :'(

Pressurized CO2 (which is highly recommended, especially for the size tank you have) will probably run at least $200.  That's for a needle valve, regulator, and 5 lb cylinder.  If you get a 10 pound cylinder it will cost more, as will a solenoid switch (should you want one).  Plus, you'll need a diffuser like a bubble ladder or something similar which adds another $15 to $30 depending.

QuoteOk...whats better:  Double Linear Strip with 4-65 watt 6700 K Compact Fluorescent Lamps or T5 High Output 48" Double Light Fixture - With 2-Lifeglo II 54Watt T5 High Output Bulbs? The first one has 260w and the second only has 108 but then theyre differnt types.

Depends on what you want to keep.  The Power Compact setup will give you lots of light that will let you grow most anything (with CO2 and ferts, of course).  The T5 unit is definitely a lower light unit that will probably allow you to grow low to medium light plants.
Title: Re: Quick lighting question
Post by: PuddleDuck on March 06, 2007, 12:02:00 AM
Well I have my old C02 setup...I guess I could just have it fixed.
Title: Re: Quick lighting question
Post by: PuddleDuck on March 10, 2007, 07:55:24 AM
Ok I bought the PC setup...now is this going to melt my centerbrace if I sit it right on the glass?
Title: Re: Quick lighting question
Post by: BigDaddy on March 10, 2007, 12:03:48 PM
No.. it'll rest a couple of millimeters above the glass if it rests on the tank frame.  I have a 2 x 96 on a 33 with both fans toast (waiting for new ones from Coralife)... the unit gets too hot to touch... but the center brace is fine.  They don't generate THAT much heat
Title: Re: Quick lighting question
Post by: PuddleDuck on March 10, 2007, 11:11:39 PM
Thanks BD! Its one of those braces that comes with the glass canopy, but the lights just barely rest on the tank frame so I dont think it will be a problem.

Title: Re: Quick lighting question
Post by: PuddleDuck on March 12, 2007, 06:15:21 PM
I thinki I've had an algae bloom- my water looked green under the lights but it looks even worse now!! Think I need some hornwort...