I've been researching stand designs and this is what I've come up with so far. If the stand is going to be "furniture" then you'll skin this frame out with "finish grade wood".. if you're going to dry-wall this stuff to make it look like it's part of your house's architecture or whatever, then you'll need to build this, and add wood as per typical framming to support the drywall.
Here is some copied info about building typical, rectangular, stands. They are "averages" but good guidelines to get started.
1) An average tank-height 2x4, on end, can take about 16,000lbs of compression pressure. Putting one at each corner of your tank means you can support 64,000 lbs of compression... (this is not the only factor, but sleep well type information)
2) Screw's can support 300+ lbs of shear force, each! ( based upon #8 screws ). However, typical wood cannot withstand the shear-force. The screws will not snap, the wood however will "tear".
3) 4x4 warp more easily than 2x4's so do not use em.. plus they are hard to work with and fugly.
4) Glue & Screw is stronger than Screw alone, costs virtually nothing. So do it!
5) Stand lengths of 48" and less can created with 2x4 for the "beams" (red) and have no vertical center brace
6) Stand lengths of 49-72" can be crated with 2x6 for the "beams" (red) and have no vertical center brace
7) Stand lengths over 72" should use 2x8's for the "beams" (red) and have no vertical center brace
8) The flex in a piece of wood... When you dobule the width (2 2x4's glued together) you double the strength. When you increase the height, you cube the strength... therefore, 2x6 beams are often bettern than 2 2x4's glued together.
9) only the top 'box' (red+yellow) needs to have the additional strength.. the load is carried from the top box, down the legs (purple) to the floor... the bottom box (orange+blue)is used to keep things square and to fasten the "skin" to the frame. 2x4's are more than enough.
10) The green bits should be SHORTER than your stand to ensure they do not carry load. They are used to screw everything together only. (glue and screw) If they carry load, because say they were 1/8inch longer than your legs due to bad cuts, then you would be dealing with shearing issues (point 2 above).
11) The design featured below assumes that you can make 90degree square cuts. If your cuts are not square all bets are off.
12) Counter Sink & Pre-Drill your holes to keep it clean.
13) Use Clamps to keep it square
14) HomeDepot/Rona/Lowes do not sell good wood... IMO it's not dry enough, it will warp & twist.
(https://www.ovas.ca/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Freefcentral.com%2Fgallery%2Fdata%2F500%2F148629DIY_Stand_Template.jpg&hash=e17f1be380b0c565508c5f81c77ae54ce71fcb77)
In all honesty, these are not hard to make... the next step is skinning them out... and that is what separates the men from the boys (or ladies from the girls?)
Here is a link to one done by our former web master
http://ovas.ca/index.php?page=13
If you use framing lumber for your stand you should over kill your build to help prevent twisting as the wood dries and don't bother with glue because it wont do much if the wood is wet. If you want a strong stand with no twisting you can use kiln dried wood 6-8 % moisture insted of framing lumber 20-30% moisture.
I was hoping you'd chime in here Winston.
As the voice of someone with actual wood-working/furniture building experience, what are your thoughts on plywood stands vs 2x stands... Personally, I think that Plywood stands, say 3/4 inch material, would be lighter than the heavily over-engineered 2x stands and do the job better.... Let alone the concept of building a 2x frame then skinning it with plywood seems costly and redundant...
my 125 is sitting on a melamine stand and had a wave box on it and I never worry about it, if the stand is designed and built right you should not have any problems, but it never hurts to over build with in reason. If you decide to use framing lumber you should probably put foam between the tank and stand.
This information is so timely as I recently decided to go with a wood stand on my next tank. It is going to be a 180.
This is the stand design which caught my eye and I will be using as a guide.
http://sketchup.google.com/3dwarehouse/details?mid=22ba807ddb1d9a7e28e2882de2b3ddd6 (http://sketchup.google.com/3dwarehouse/details?mid=22ba807ddb1d9a7e28e2882de2b3ddd6)
Quote from: winston199 on August 05, 2009, 06:36:15 PM
If you use framing lumber for your stand you should over kill your build to help prevent twisting as the wood dries and don't bother with glue because it wont do much if the wood is wet. If you want a strong stand with no twisting you can use kiln dried wood 6-8 % moisture insted of framing lumber 20-30% moisture.
Where can you buy kiln dried wood, preferably 2x4's?
you can get kiln dried wood at the wood source but they are expensive or I can get it for you at a good price if you let me know how much you need.
check these links out...
1) OMG wow - what a design, and so many step-by-step photos you'll think you could do it too...
http://reefcentral.com/forums/showthread.php?s=30e822169caca4322e09900da24046b2&threadid=1213499&perpage=25&pagenumber=1
2) Simple design for 2x stand(frame)... (all you need is in the first 2 or 3 pages... I've read the first 30... yawn)
http://reefcentral.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=1169964&perpage=25&pagenumber=1
I've built two tank stands, which surprises even me! One for my 75 gallon (now dismantled) with 2x4's and it was way overbuilt by many peoples standards had center braces (so proud of myself). I also built a stand for my 10 gallon nano tank out of 2x4's which is super overkill but it's not going anywhere Post pics later. It is a challenge but it's rewarding when you complete a nice looking piece. Even better when people ask where you got it lol.
I've built a stand for my 220 gal myself out of 2x4s as well. And it seems to be holding up pretty well...
http://ovas.ca/index.php?topic=28948.0
Did anyone consider building a metal stand?
I would only build a metal stand for systems where you want to have a wave (sloshing water) so that you can nullify the latteral forces, something that is hard to overcome with typical 2x designes.
For me, the cost scares me, because i'd have to have soemone make the entire stand... I do not know how to work metal. For someone that had the tools and knowledge, this could be a cheaper way, or a "just as good" way for sure.
Quote from: fischkopp on August 10, 2009, 10:37:08 PM
Did anyone consider building a metal stand?
I had considered metal also, but decided upon wood mostly due to the fact I have the skills to build a wood stand myself, but not metal, and also cost.
Consider microlam lumber if you are going wood... Much more stable and stronger.
Bruce
Quote from: Hookup on August 11, 2009, 12:28:31 PM
I would only build a metal stand for systems where you want to have a wave (sloshing water) so that you can nullify the latteral forces, something that is hard to overcome with typical 2x designes.
For me, the cost scares me, because i'd have to have soemone make the entire stand... I do not know how to work metal. For someone that had the tools and knowledge, this could be a cheaper way, or a "just as good" way for sure.
Take a look at these guys, I have used many of their products with great success.
http://www.8020.net/
Hookup:
Looking forward to following your build.
In you first post you had a wonderful list of materials strengths, but they seemed to refer to an illustration. Do you recall the source of this information so that I could see the drawings?
winston199:
You mentioned using foam between the tank and the stand. What type of foam do you recommend and where would you get it?
Thank you both.
John T
I belive its the second link hookup posted here.
Quote from: Hookup on August 05, 2009, 08:50:32 PM
check these links out...
1) OMG wow - what a design, and so many step-by-step photos you'll think you could do it too...
http://reefcentral.com/forums/showthread.php?s=30e822169caca4322e09900da24046b2&threadid=1213499&perpage=25&pagenumber=1
2) Simple design for 2x stand(frame)... (all you need is in the first 2 or 3 pages... I've read the first 30... yawn)
http://reefcentral.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=1169964&perpage=25&pagenumber=1
On a related note. . .
It is nice to know that 4 2x4s on end can withstand 16,000 lbs of compression pressure, but how much weight can a floor take before I get worried? I would guess that it would be somewhat less than 16,000 lbs. I also expect at it would be more near a wall than in the middle of a span like Hookup's project.
Anybody know?
Thyank you.
John T
I understand peoples concerns, however they are mostly unfounded.
When did you hear of a water bed going through the floor, did you ever wake up and find the fridge had gone through the floor and was in the basement, do you know how many a pounds per square inch a voluptuous blond weighing 250lb will put on a floor if she wears high heels and stands on one leg?
A water bed is only 6 inches deep, or a load of about 35 lb per square foot. You would be packing them in to get more than one 250 lb blond per square foot. I plan to have a 90 gal display, 90 gal sump, stand and hood on 4' x 1.5 ' = 6 sq feet of floor. I would need a half dozen 320 pounders to test it.
Even as a thought experiment, I would not expect they would crash through the floor, but if they stood there long enough, would the floor sag or distort enough so that an originally flat and level stand top was no-longer flat and level?
John T
Quote from: johnrt on October 25, 2009, 11:47:29 PM
A water bed is only 6 inches deep, or a load of about 35 lb per square foot. You would be packing them in to get more than one 250 lb blond per square foot. I plan to have a 90 gal display, 90 gal sump, stand and hood on 4' x 1.5 ' = 6 sq feet of floor. I would need a half dozen 320 pounders to test it.
Even as a thought experiment, I would not expect they would crash through the floor, but if they stood there long enough, would the floor sag or distort enough so that an originally flat and level stand top was no-longer flat and level?
John T
You might ask the blondes how long they plan on being there, it's a 90, not your usual walk around i suspect it will be against a wall, you will be perfectly OK
OK is OK. I like OK. John T
If you live in a house your floors are prob. supported by 2x10's or at least 2x8's.
If your in an appt. then your floors are concrete.
I can't see what you would worry about. 90G of water at say, 8.5lbs per would be abt.
765 lbs. Thats only 5 people. Many home parties have wayyyyyyyyyy more than that in attendance.
Yer good.
Good. Its also good to be good. Thank you. John T
I'm going to jump in here... a lot of "you're probably good" and "it should work"...
Typical residential construction HAS to meet the loads of 13psf dead load + an additional 40psf of live load (people walking) in the centre of the span.
so say you have a 4'x2' tank - 8 square feet. the floor directly under that 8 sq ft is designed to hold 424 lbs safely without deflection in the centre of a room. NOW, that being said, most older homes are built with some safety design of 1.5 to 2 times that, as it makes for a floor without as much bounce and a quieter home. New homes however and unfortunately are being built closer to code to save $$$ and it is noticeable as you will no doubt notice some 'bounce' in the floor (loud footsteps on the floors above).
Please keep these things in mind when placing a larger tank in the centre of a span (which MAY be against the wall, not all walls in homes are load bearing)
If you want dry structural wood, and hardwood so it's stiffer & stronger:
http://www.kjpselecthardwoods.com/
3-145 Bentley Ave. Ottawa, ON
Tuesday - Saturday 8am - 5pm
Popular, Maple & Oak are good examples.
NOT force dried in a kiln. Air dried unless signed as kiln dried.
and lots of furniture-grade wood to skin it with, including veneered plywoods.
October specials include:
- Cherry dressed to 3/4", $2 a board-foot.
- Popular, 4/4 , 8/4 & 12/4 at $2/bf. (4/4 is 1", 8/4 is eight quarters of an inch, or 2", etc.)
Warning: although hardwoods will take more shear screw load than framing woods, DO NOT design a frame depending on this. Have your loads fully supported by wood!!!
as per:
Quote from: Hookup on August 05, 2009, 08:50:32 PM
2) Simple design for 2x stand(frame)... (all you need is in the first 2 or 3 pages... I've read the first 30... yawn)
http://reefcentral.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=1169964&perpage=25&pagenumber=1
Warning: quality wood is also addictive (spent $840 on Khaya (Chamoiré Figure) for a computer stand and $480 for a coffee table and speaker stands).