OVAS

Is the closest onr to barrhaven in orleans?

Thanks a bundle
JIM

yeah it's in orleans.

THANKS

http://www.petcetera.ca

Off tenth line I think eh?
I think that might be the only one in Ottawa...

I didn't even know this was a store.  :lol:

Any good?

I found it expensive actually.

It is a bit more expensive but they do tend to have a good sale. I think they are opening up another store in St.Laurent Rd?

I had a bad experience with PetCetera in Kingston.  

I noticed that one of the tanks had ich.  I bought a female betta from another tank, making sure it didn't have ich.  Sure enough, two days later it died from ich and took four of my fish with it.  :(  

I belive the store in Kingston run all of their tanks off the same filter.  If the one in Orleans has the same set-up then watch out.  If it does have the same set-up, could someone let the forum know.

Thanks!

I was looking at a tank anyway hahah but thanks!

Jim

The Orleans Petcetera does have a shared plumbing system.  There are small grills on the side panels between each tank.

Last item I was there, there were about 3 german rams in one tank, all had ich.  Fish in the immediate tanks beside them were also infected.

Quote from: "BigDaddy"The Orleans Petcetera does have a shared plumbing system.  There are small grills on the side panels between each tank.

Last item I was there, there were about 3 german rams in one tank, all had ich.  Fish in the immediate tanks beside them were also infected.

Yeah that kinda sucks how they have those side panels, because if tank of fish get's infected, then it can carry onto the next tank :?

Quote from: "blueturq"

Quote from: "BigDaddy"The Orleans Petcetera does have a shared plumbing system.  There are small grills on the side panels between each tank.

Last item I was there, there were about 3 german rams in one tank, all had ich.  Fish in the immediate tanks beside them were also infected.

Yeah that kinda sucks how they have those side panels, because if tank of fish get's infected, then it can carry onto the next tank :?

And it's impossible to treat a tank of fish as the meds simply wash out and around the entire system. All the fish then have to be removed and isolated. Not a very good system, in my opinion.

Just like walmart  :roll:

Quote from: "aidensmomma2000"Just like walmart  :roll:

Don't Pet Smart run a system like this?

I believe SP Merivale WAS on a system like this in the old store. But in the new one they're not. Just like SP Barrhaven they have an isolated plumbing system.

Don't even get me started on petCetera.

The 2-4-1 "member" card is almost worth it.

BLAH.

Don't Pet Smart run a system like this?

I believe SP Merivale WAS on a system like this in the old store. But in the new one they're not. Just like SP Barrhaven they have an isolated plumbing system.[/quote]


I think youre right.
I think the Pet Smart on Merivale is aswell?

A system that connects all the tanks, like the old one at SP merivale, works well IF there is a uv steralizer.  Problem is, the UV steralizers are a expense most stores don't want.  They lose more money in the long run without it, but don't want to pay the initial fee to purchase the proper equipment up front.

when a store like that is opening up they should plan out all the steps and equipment they need to keep all the fish healthly and happy and if there was an infection the tanks should be desined so the can isolate it and treat that one particular tank.

Quote from: "Brent"when a store like that is opening up they should plan out all the steps and equipment they need to keep all the fish healthly and happy and if there was an infection the tanks should be desined so the can isolate it and treat that one particular tank.

That's good advice.   Now only if petstores would do that.   From all the petstores in the Ottawa area, I would have to say that Big Als on Innes Rd is rather sloppy.   You often see hoses running the floor for tank cleaning, but several of the tanks remain filthy for a few days!   I'm always excited to see what they have in livestock, and always leave disappointed after seeing fish dying....

Even though I do not buy fish at Petcetera *because of the outrageous prices ..Buy 1 get 1 free .....actually should be called, pay for 3 and get 2...*   I have never seen a tank with infected tank once.....in the 2 years that I have been going there.

Thank god for SuperPet!    :P

I thought the only fish monger who wasn't was Roy in Kingston.

Quote from: "Sailfin"From all the petstores in the Ottawa area, I would have to say that Big Als on Innes Rd is rather sloppy.   You often see hoses running the floor for tank cleaning, but several of the tanks remain filthy for a few days!   I'm always excited to see what they have in livestock, and always leave disappointed after seeing fish dying...

I didn't want to say it, because I work for a competitor and it would probably be construed as slander or some such none-sense. But I agree. BA Innes has some of the best selection I've ever seen in terms of a fish store. Just spectacular. But the one time I was there... Well... I was scared to bring anything home and put it in my tanks. Even in a qt tank, for fear of it dying. And the return policy (5 day, 50% store credit) doesn't jive well with me either. I think it has the potential to be the best place for fish in Ottawa, however... I think a big problem stems from how many wild caught fish they have in the store. Those things bring in parasites and diseases galore!

I have to agree that BA Innes is a bit sloppy.  Better then PetsSmart, but… you don’t need much for that. On many occasions, I have seen number of fish in less then optimal shape (belly up).  I think one batch from them infected my aquarium (Yes, I know.  I setup a quarantine tank after that).  I prefer BA Kanata.  

One other problem that I have is that in both BAs getting some advice is a hit and miss proposition.  In both there seem to be several very knowledgeable staff, but they are often not around.  Many of the other ones are don’t seem to be very knowledgeable and could care less about helping you.  I’m new to this hobby and usually require help, but I’m certainly well beyond the basics.

Having said that, does anybody have recommendations for a good aquarium store in Ottawa?

I have to whole heartedly disagree with any staff being not willing to help. All the staff there are very happy to help polite and respectful customers. It's possible you got someone on a bad day, but it would be an exception, not a trend.
And yes, sometimes the wild stuff does experience some initial losses, but after a few days it tends to stabilize.

Every time I've been in Big Al's here in Ottawa I've always had a hard time finding people to give me a hand. While I don't like employees always bothering me to try and help me (one thing I hated doing to customers when I was at SP), I also don't like having to seek out employees and interrupt their inter-employee chatting time to get service. This seems to happen every time I'm in here.

I like the aquarium staff at Super Pet Kanata.  I've had consistantly better advice from them than from the people at BA Kanata.

BA has one or two knowledgable folks but the rest seem to be "kids on minimum wage who don't give a damn" type people.

I will also generally agree with people's views. However, I have seen new staff at Big Al's Innes in the past while and have found that they are indeed helpful and knowledgeable. The old crop of employees doing the inter-employee chatting hasn't been seen in a while.  As for Petsmart, I think it is more of a petstore and not a fish store so they will never have a huge variety of fish. More geered for the kids I think

For fish, I like SuperPet (either locations). There store is clean, have a good selection and good knowledgeable employees.

just my thoughts and opinions

darkdep, that is  exactly my feeling.  Other then the couple of staff that know their thing and are eager to help, there are a lot of what seems like "McDonald" type kids.  Recently, after interrupting their chat I got  "yeh sure..." type of responses to conflicting suggestions, and as soon as I started to read the box,  the person split to continue their chat.  On many other occasions it seemed to me like the sales person wanted to get rid of me as soon as possible to continue what they were doing.  

If you can catch someone that knows their stuff, its really great and you can get lots of information.

Sarenka

Most of the time when I've been in a BAs I haven't needed help. Just looking around... The one time I had some questions was at BA Innes and poor Matt was there and running around trying to help out as many people as possible, lol. When I finally got through the line-up of people waiting to talk to him he gave me honest answers about the fish I was inquiring about. (Including health since they've come in and such.) I appreciated that.

Here's my take:

I don't let a sales person help me decide what I'm going to buy.  I take it upon myself to do as much research as I can, get advice from others who had experience with the product in question, and then I go into the store with the information I need to just pick up the product, walk to the cash and pay for it.

Playing devil's advocate for the sales folks though, you have to give them some slack because they are usually put in positions where they do not have all the information necessary.  For example, customer walks in wanting to know what kind of med to buy for their sick fish... but can't describe many of the symptoms, has no idea what brought it on, and isn't even familiar with what kind of diseases fish can get and how.  But they expect the sales person to pull a bottle off a shelf and say "This will do the trick".

Let's face it though... the Walmarts and other mega corps of the world have changed the face of retail shopping.  It's not a question of the service you get anymore... its the bottom line, how much you can save.  Well folks, those savings come at a price.... customer service.  Its not about establishing relationships anymore.... its about how low you can slash prices and still make a profit.

I would absolutely LOVE to quit my job and run a small neighbourhood fish store.  I'd actually be happy getting up to go to work each morning.  But the Big Al's / Superpets/ Petsmarts and the multitude of mail order sites keep that dream exactly what it is... a dream.

Quote from: "BigDaddy"Playing devil's advocate for the sales folks though, you have to give them some slack because they are usually put in positions where they do not have all the information necessary.  For example, customer walks in wanting to know what kind of med to buy for their sick fish... but can't describe many of the symptoms, has no idea what brought it on, and isn't even familiar with what kind of diseases fish can get and how.  But they expect the sales person to pull a bottle off a shelf and say "This will do the trick".

Wow. You hit the nail right on the head, there... I don't know the number of people who've gotten mad at me because I haven't had instand answers for them when they've told me that "the fish is spending a lot of time sulking on the bottom or hiding". Some people are just so vague it's mind numbing... I sometimes have to point out that I am NOT a vet. And if they want that type of expert advice they should search one out. I would like to consider myself to be a knowledgeable hobbyist. But I'm by far not an expert on anything. I need to learn more about Africans and plants, for sure... And I honestly don't get paid enough to fork over the knowledge I already have, LOL. But I do enjoy the job 90% of the time. And that makes it good.

Yeah, I found when I was working in the pet industry that the situation both BigDaddy and Mettle describe are pretty accurate. I wasn't working at SP for the pay, which was awful- I was there because I love animals and I loved being able to use my knowledge of animal husbandry to help customers. I found that where I worked, a good number of the people in each department were similar to me, and they weren't just working there for the (awful) pay.

I think one way these stores keep their employyes, even though they pay them so bad, is the discounts. ;)  Most employees where I worked had increased the number of pets they had by quite a bit when they started working. Heck, I went from 1 lizard and a goldfish tank to 2 lizards, a snake, mice (for the snake, but they still need housing), a 20gal and a 65gal aquarium. I would have ended up with a LOT more if my roommates would have allowed it.

Haha. Yeah, the pay sucks... But the discount is fantastic. I think the discount makes up, in part, for the pay.

Is there any Petstore employee want to be my new best friend?????    :P

if I had to do it again I would only deal with Jody or Matt Seguin at Big Als Innes.
Andrew at Kanata is pretty good too.

I agree with BigDaddy 100%. I always did my research before hitting the stores. If I want a certain fish or plant I will take any chances or risks to get it.
Thanks to Matt for the 2 female rams, they both were (2 weeks a go) in the tank which full other type of rams with ick and not for sale. I asked one employee and this person won't let me buy them. I asked Matt and told him that I would take my chances (forget the warranty thing) and try to cure them myself. They both just finished their spawn.
In the other hand, BA Kanata has this dying crinum calamistratum, 4 leaves left that Andrew won't sell, even if I offer him $30. I asked again when it is only 3 leaves left, he still wouldn't give to me. He told me that he got it for $50 and it is in a display tank, so he can not sell it no matter how much customer want to pay. Funny guy, I hope that store doing well financially  :roll: . I end up got it from BA Oakville for $14 with OVAS discount.
I bought fish/plant from anywhere, Walmart (picked up Farlowella from new store in Orleans), PetSmart, BA, PJ, Chinese place in TO and I used to work for SP Barrhaven. If you happen to be served by a knowledgeable staff (in BA Mississauga you have to take numbers before they can serve you, even if you just want to ask livestock question), that's a bonus and I feel like I just got a discount on the product I bought, and if it not, I still got the product I want. Sometimes I have to net the fish myself because the staff couldn't catch it  :wink:

I totally agree with the doing research before you go and get fish/plants/etc thing. While I don't mind answering questions about fish husbandry, I absolutely HATED when people would just come in willy-nilly and expect that all the fish they liked the looks of would fit in their 5g tank, or whatever.

And while I think its foolish/slightly irresponsible to do that with fish, I think its utterly despicable when people do it with 'higher' animals like herps, small mammals, and birds. Pets shouldn't be an impulse buy, especially when you know squat about their proper care.

What I hate is when people come in and ask about a new tank. I spend some 20 minutes listing reasons why the 20 gal kit would be more worth their time than a 10 gal. And often they take home the 10 gal... Only to get pissed off at me when they come back in and I tell them that no, three quarters of the fish they want, won't fit in that 10 gal. Or when they realize how limited they are on numbers in terms of a 10 gal. GRR.

People make impulse purcahses with animals ALL the time. Look at the humane society - very few of those animals would be there if it weren't for people being irresponsible with their purchases... We sell tons of bettas on a daily basis. I know that most of those fish will end up dead within the month. It's sad.

Where do you work, Mettle?

Quote from: "Mettle"What I hate is when people come in and ask about a new tank. I spend some 20 minutes listing reasons why the 20 gal kit would be more worth their time than a 10 gal. And often they take home the 10 gal... Only to get pissed off at me when they come back in and I tell them that no, three quarters of the fish they want, won't fit in that 10 gal. Or when they realize how limited they are on numbers in terms of a 10 gal. GRR.

People make impulse purcahses with animals ALL the time. Look at the humane society - very few of those animals would be there if it weren't for people being irresponsible with their purchases... We sell tons of bettas on a daily basis. I know that most of those fish will end up dead within the month. It's sad.

I second all of this bigtime. When I was working in that department, I had the same thing happen at least weekly. I think the consensus is, people suck, and need to regard animals less like posessions and more like living creatures. :P

Quote from: "darkdep"Where do you work, Mettle?

SP Barrhaven.

A mom and her 2 kids (maybe aged between 9 and 12?) came in the other day, and asked some questions about reptiles and fish.  The kids each had a paper and pencil, and took notes on the different options.  Then the mom said, "since this is going to be the kid's pet, we are going to go home and they are going to do some research before we make any decisions!"

It made my DAY!

QuoteI second all of this bigtime. When I was working in that department, I had the same thing happen at least weekly. I think the consensus is, people suck, and need to regard animals less like posessions and more like living creatures. :P

Interestingly enough, this is one reason I don't mind that "going to a pet store and asking for a fish tank with stand and accessories costs a second mortgage".  Nobody buys a $1400 dog, for example, unless they're serious.  

Still, I guess people with money still do dumb things.

Quote from: "squeeker"A mom and her 2 kids (maybe aged between 9 and 12?) came in the other day, and asked some questions about reptiles and fish.  The kids each had a paper and pencil, and took notes on the different options.  Then the mom said, "since this is going to be the kid's pet, we are going to go home and they are going to do some research before we make any decisions!"

It made my DAY!

That's fantastic! I've spent close to an hour with some families before, discussing the different tank options and what different fish can go in there. Also what type of maitenance is involved - both in fish and reptiles. If the person is inquisitive enough to be asking that many questions and willing to listen to that much fish geek speak or reptile lingo, then they must be at least semi-interested. And that always makes me happy... Especially when I see them getting excited about it all.

I love it when I can help someone out, get them started, and they come back in all the time giving me updates and asking more questions. It's great... And not just because I got another person hooked! LOL. :lol:

I find the two big A's a league above petsmart and super pet. But I think thats only to be expected since they only deal in one type of pet.  However I'd take Roy's in Kingston over anything in this side of the province. Man I hope he opens back up!

But one thing I run into selling plants at a garden center is people coming in, asking a boatload of questions taking an hour of my time, and then going to Canadan Tire to shop with my info. Its great to help people out, so long as they are going to come back and a few hundred dollars. Otherwise its just time and company money down the drain.

Unfortunately, that's human nature.  I used to work selling computers retail, and I used to experience the same thing all the time (people come in, spend hours getting advice, then go buy at the hole-in-the-wall store up the road).  I always vowed I would never do things like that...and I try to keep that vow (although I slip sometimes depending on the product).

Personally, I take salespeople's advice as advice, not gospel.  After the (very small) amount of experience I've had at fish stores, I would never blindly follow the advice from a fish store employee without confirmation (with respect to Mettle, sqeeker, and others that are on here).  

I got told once that I should not use Baking soda to raise pH, I should use the stuff the store sells.  The reasoning?  Because "baking soda is Sodium Bicarbonate, and the Sodium is salt, and it will turn your water into salt water and kill your fish over time."

QuotePersonally, I take salespeople's advice as advice, not gospel

I agree completely, but the problem from what I've read online is that alot of people do expect fish or pet store employees to have the gospel according to fish stored up in their brain. Nobody on this forum can't be stumped at some point, so I don't see why SP or BA or PS employees are held up as if they have to remember the latin name, maximum length, and care tips for all 25,000+ species of fish. (I know I'm being melodramatic but my point stands.) There are employees who know more than me in certain areas and less in others (Jody probably being the one exception). And I think that's completely normal. Most of us are students or have other things we do that take up our days, so we can't spend all day memorizing the tomes and tomes of info out there. If you can't do ur own research, don't blame us for being only human.

Quote from: "mseguin"

QuotePersonally, I take salespeople's advice as advice, not gospel

I agree completely, but the problem from what I've read online is that alot of people do expect fish or pet store employees to have the gospel according to fish stored up in their brain. Nobody on this forum can't be stumped at some point, so I don't see why SP or BA or PS employees are held up as if they have to remember the latin name, maximum length, and care tips for all 25,000+ species of fish. (I know I'm being melodramatic but my point stands.) There are employees who know more than me in certain areas and less in others (Jody probably being the one exception). And I think that's completely normal. Most of us are students or have other things we do that take up our days, so we can't spend all day memorizing the tomes and tomes of info out there. If you can't do ur own research, don't blame us for being only human.

Well expressed and absolutely accurate :wink:

Quote from: "mseguin"I agree completely, but the problem from what I've read online is that alot of people do expect fish or pet store employees to have the gospel according to fish stored up in their brain.

When I go to a car store I expect that the person selling me a car knows about the car,  I'm not talking about knowing the mechanics side or the electrical side of things, because that is what we have mechanics and electricians for, but I expect the person to know enough about the car to match me up with the car that best suits my needs, my expectations and my pocketbook.  When I go to Staples and want to buy a laptop, I expect that the person selling me that laptop knows enough about the laptop to again, match me up with the laptop that suits my needs, my expectations and my pocketbook.  I can go on and on with list of examples.

When I go to a fish store or pet store, I expect the people working there to be able to give me the information I need to get the fish that best suits my needs, expectations and pocketbook.   A perfect example was a few days ago at Superpet.  I went in and bought an arowana, All I did was ask the person that worked in the fish section for the arowana,  He never asked me about the size of tank I was going to put it in, if I had any idea of how large they got,  not even what they ate,  I would hate for someone to put an arowana in a 20 gallon because they thought he was cute,  I expect to go to a fish store and for the sales person to be able to tell me, What the fish eats, what its temperment is like, how large the fish grows to,  and general information about that type of fish.  If someone doesn't take there job serious enough to do a little reading on the fish, or to even ask someone who does know the information about that fish then maybe they should not be working in that line of work.  

I am not trying to come off harsh on the people that work there, because it's not there fault if they are not up to date on all the information, its managements fault,  I know alot of the workers are temperary or students but I still think they should invest th effort into training them and making them professsionals at there job.

I really think "people" are placing unreasonable expectations on LFS employees.  They should absolutely have a firm knowledge of the general principals of water chemistry and a working knowledge of the more popular species of aquarium fish, their environments and the fish/species that they are compatable with.  

As a serious aquarist, I will have done my research when I decide to purchase a fish.  I will have questions but responses I may receive will be weighed against knowledge I have acquired, and I will then arrive at an appropriate conclusion.

I personally have a fair amount of respect for the young LFS folks that have helped me out over time :wink:

Quote from: "Nelson"I really think "people" are placing unreasonable expectations on LFS employees.  They should absolutely have a firm knowledge of the general principals of water chemistry and a working knowledge of the more popular species of aquarium fish, their environments and the fish/species that they are compatable with.  

I assume when you say "people" you are refering to me.  

I don't think its unreasonable at all,  All I ask for is what you have stated.  When I look back at some of the advice I have gotten from a fish store if I was at any other type of store I would  have sent a complaints to the manager or owner of that store.  When I see the person wearing a name tag that says they work in the fish department, I consider them the professionals in the matter, and in my opinion they should be the proffesionals in the matter.  I don't know what line of work most of the people here do, but I think no matter how little you get paid or how much you hate your job that you should always strive to be as professional as you are able to be.  

Please don't take it as not having respect for the young LFS folks out there because I myself have got alot of good advice and still do get alot of good advice from them.  I just am not seeing eye to eye on the fact that people shouldnt take the Fish store proffessionals word as gospel or that lfs employees shouldn't have all the knoledge needed to do there jobs.

QuoteWhen I go to a fish store or pet store, I expect the people working there to be able to give me the information I need to get the fish that best suits my needs, expectations and pocketbook

Which employies are we talking about? The summer student labor or fulltime managers. I'd be suprised if a full time person could not give you the proper info. But give the kids a break. Its just a part-time summer job for them where they learn more about working for a living than about aquarium tending. You get the same thing at Canadin Tire, Garden Centres, Walmart, ect. . .ect. .

It's been a struggle for me to learn this, but I'm leanring as I move more towards managing staff than provinding customer support. You just cant expect everyone on the front line to have a graduate degree and 10 years exp.

Well everyone has there opinions,  I guess mine is different then others. Makes sense asto why I shop I  shop at my local fish store and deal with the owner whenever possible.

I never meant to argue anyone here, im a big fan of listening to others and learning from them.  You have enlightened me to the other side of the coin. I can't agree with you but Thanks.

Comparing a car dealer to a LFS employee is unrealistic. Most car dealers have maybe a dozen models they have to know, and even then, if u ask them for certain features, they'll probably look them up on their computer. With fish, it's impossible to know it all. Like Nelson said, it isnt unreasonable to expect them to know the nitrogen cycle, water chemsitry, how to treat ich, africans south american tank setup, but there's a ridiculous amount of info, and no one person can be expected to retain it all. I've found in a lot of complaints I've read (and this is not referring to ur post Aiglos) that there's a confusion between knowing more than someone else and knowing something they don't know. I'd be curious to be know how many OVAS members could correctly identify a yellow bullhead, which I did this morning, in a lake they had never been found in before. Does that mean I know more than anybody else on this forum? No, I just had a bit of information that most people don't.

I wish I had a place like you do to go to Aiglos. Small business where you get to deal with the owners are becoming quite rare I think.

Quote from: "darkdep"I would never blindly follow the advice from a fish store employee without confirmation (with respect to Mettle, sqeeker, and others that are on here).

I respect that. Completely. I know a couple of guys I work with aren't that knowledgeable about fish. But they're learning with time... And I always tell people when I'm not 100% sure. I tell them if soemthing is an 'iffy' combo. And I'm always sure to warn them that just because something worked for me doesn't mean it'll work for them... Do their own research and cross-reference it, too.

Quote from: "Aiglos"When I go to a car store I expect that the person selling me a car knows about the car,  I'm not talking about knowing the mechanics side or the electrical side of things, because that is what we have mechanics and electricians for, but I expect the person to know enough about the car to match me up with the car that best suits my needs, my expectations and my pocketbook.  When I go to Staples and want to buy a laptop, I expect that the person selling me that laptop knows enough about the laptop to again, match me up with the laptop that suits my needs, my expectations and my pocketbook.  I can go on and on with list of examples.

When I go to a fish store or pet store, I expect the people working there to be able to give me the information I need to get the fish that best suits my needs, expectations and pocketbook.   A perfect example was a few days ago at Superpet.  I went in and bought an arowana, All I did was ask the person that worked in the fish section for the arowana,  He never asked me about the size of tank I was going to put it in, if I had any idea of how large they got,  not even what they ate,  I would hate for someone to put an arowana in a 20 gallon because they thought he was cute,  I expect to go to a fish store and for the sales person to be able to tell me, What the fish eats, what its temperment is like, how large the fish grows to,  and general information about that type of fish.  If someone doesn't take there job serious enough to do a little reading on the fish, or to even ask someone who does know the information about that fish then maybe they should not be working in that line of work.  

I am not trying to come off harsh on the people that work there, because it's not there fault if they are not up to date on all the information, its managements fault,  I know alot of the workers are temperary or students but I still think they should invest th effort into training them and making them professsionals at there job.

I'm sorry, but your post just comes off as ill-informed, naive and ignorant as far as this matter goes. I don't even think the manager of a fish store should be required to live up to this level of expectation... As Matt pointed out, car salesmen are only responsible for a few models (which they're often briefed on) and they have cheat sheets and computers to work off of. (I know this for a fact - the fiancee of one of my best friends actually sells cars!) Just because I work in the fish room at a pet store you expect me to be able to answer all your questions? To know everything about every cichlid, tetra, goldfish? That's just insane!

Not to be smug, but I think Super Pet is a little bit lucky to have someone who knows as much as I do for the wage they're paying me. And I don't even consider myself to be all that knowledgeable... I think they're lucky to have any of the people they do. (And to reference another thread, I think it does come down to a combo of a love for the hobby and the discount.) It's not worth my time to do endless research... Even though I often do. And I do research for customers because I'm curious. A couple of my co-workers often couldn't be bothered.

You may say you didn't want to come across as offensive, but you did. I'm sick of people walking into the store expecting me to know everything there is to know about fish. (We won't even get into the issue of half of those same people not following the advice I do give.) It's frustrating. I try. I do my best - but people like you make me want to just quit for being extremely under appreciated for the effort and amount of time I invest into my job.

Maybe this was just some tired ranting, but it did strike a nerve with me... And I'm not sorry for anything I've said here. It's the truth, and I'm sure even though some may not say it, I'm sure those who've worked in pet stores know what I'm saying is true and sympathize with the feelings I've expressed... In the end we're getting taking advantage of because of our love for the hobby and eagerness to see other people enjoy it too. And that's wrong...

I'm sorry if I started down a road that got an argument started.  

I respect the "kid" with the part time job, in ANY job.  I was a "kid with a part time job" once, and I do not have a problem with BA Kanata or any other store having part timers working there (I know I'll get some heck for mentioning a specific store, but that's my own experience).  

I like when I go into any store and I meet employees who work there because they are interested in the store's product.  Mettle, you obviously care enough about what you do to get offended about negative store comments, which makes me want to trust your opinions more than most.  A lot of people in the world work somewhere because "it's a job", not because they like or are interested in what they are doing.  

Hell I'm probably going to start shopping at SP Barrhaven now that I know someone who works there cares about what they're doing.  X=)

Aiglos:  The only thing I think about the arowana purchase is that an arowana is a rather unique/uncommon fish, and someone walking in and directly asking for it PROBABLY knows what he's doing...?  (Now, those of you who actually work at LFS stores will probably tell me how wrong that is X=) ).  

I don't expect a store employee to do my research for me.  I don't expect a store employee to know everything about every fish or plant in the world.  What I DO expect is for them not to lie to me, and for god sakes, to say "I Don't Know"!!  I am by no means a master at this hobby, hell I think I know just enough now to be dangerous.  I like having that last check when I buy a fish or plant.  

BTW, just about the comparison to a car dealership...yeah, here I have a different opinion.  In a car dealership, I DO expect the salesman to be able to answer every question I come up with.  There are two reasons for this:  1) I only know the basics about cars, and 2) when I'm buying something that costs $30,000 I'm just not willing to have it any other way  :lol:

I am sure that anyone who is on this board who works in a fish department is definetly someone I'd want to deal with.

Quote from: "darkdep"What I DO expect is for them not to lie to me, and for god sakes, to say "I Don't Know"!!

I agree with you 100% here. I think if someone doesn't know they should fess up to it. I think most customers are quite satisfied with my blunt honesty in that respect. They know they're not getting some run around just so I can sell another fish, or tank, or other product. I don't load people up with what's not necessary... And that was actually a part of my training. 'If you don't know something, don't lie, and simply tell the people what you can.' It's all that can be asked of us lowly pet store employees.

I got my job there in part to also learn more. Every day I learn stuff. And sometimes when a customer comes in who has special knowledge/experience about a specific fish, and I'm not busy or loaded with customers, and they're willing to chat, I do just that. Sometimes for probably longer than my managers like!  :lol:  I love picking people's brains for info. I love learning new stuff... And I love passing on the info I've learned to others.

The one thing that does annoy me however, and Matt touched on it, is that some people come in and flaunt asking by the technical name. Now that's just smug. One of my co-workers had someone come in and ask if we had any Hyphessobrycon herbertaxelrodi and laugh when he didn't know what it was (not right away, at any rate)... And I had someone call and ask me for Carnegiella strigata... Now that's just extreme.  :lol:  I realize some fish don't have common names, because of their rarity... But how hard is it to ask for a black neon or a marbled hatchet fish?   :roll:

You know what?  When I started in this hobby and realized that a lot of fish don't have common names, and that a lot of them at some stores are listed with scientific names on the tanks, I felt like a lame-o for asking by common name.  I thought you were SUPPOSED to ask for them that way!  Especially the time I asked for a leopard catfish (Synodontis Multipunctatus), and I pronounced it wrong, and was corrected.  X=)

Hell, I'm just gonna bring in a picture from now on.  X=)

I wonder if stores had a computer in the fishroom set on some fish database if employee's could direct customer's to actually take the time to look up the fish they are asking about. Maybe a touch screen menu with the fish the store has in stock. (something idiot proof).

Just going to add in my 2 cents here  :wink:

As a pet owner, I feel it is my responsibility to do the research on a pet before I get it. I hear people say things like "oh I cant keep fish alive" and then have no idea what Im talking about when I ask them how long they cycled for. If you dont know how to take care of it, dont buy it!

This isnt to say getting information and advice from your LFS empolyee is a bad idea as reinforcement, but dont use it as a primary source.

Its not the resposibility of the employee to interview each customer, as much as I wish they would. I appriciate when they do because it can save a lot of heartache (Im sitting here grumbling about my new discus who was raised alone...).

Lets face it- at 7.25$ and hour no staff, regardless of age, should be expected to be a walking fish encyclopedia. Start paying people like they need to make a living, and they might just stay there long enough to be valuable! Im happy when the department manager is in because more often than not, s/he knows much more than the other staff and also gets paid more. You have to pay to keep the good ones.

Now of course, to play devil's advocate, if you pay people what they deserved the prices of the stock would go up...

Hmm..thinking while I type. Whats my point here...

Do your own research, its your responsibility. If you dont want it to be, be prepared to pay for it.

Sue:  That's a great idea!

Quote from: "Sue"I wonder if stores had a computer in the fishroom set on some fish database if employee's could direct customer's to actually take the time to look up the fish they are asking about. Maybe a touch screen menu with the fish the store has in stock. (something idiot proof).

I was thinking of that same thing the other day as I was thinking of if I ever ran a fish store, what would be in it! lol! :lol:

Quote from: "blueturq"

Quote from: "Sue"I wonder if stores had a computer in the fishroom set on some fish database if employee's could direct customer's to actually take the time to look up the fish they are asking about. Maybe a touch screen menu with the fish the store has in stock. (something idiot proof).

I was thinking of that same thing the other day as I was thinking of if I ever ran a fish store, what would be in it! lol! :lol:

But then what info do you put down for the fish? How technical do you make it? How long? And where are you getting this info from - because what works for one person may not work for another. There's tons of variance.

AND... A computer in a fish room? With all that water? Seems risky to me!  :lol:

Seems to be some very opionated people here.

Let the pet store employees do their job.  If you are unhappy with the service at a particular store, go somewhere else.  If you are unhappy with the service at all pet stores - don't know what to say???

Pet stores I think are there to make $$ first.   They provide products that consumers want to buy.  No obligation to be the SPCA, it would be nice if they could to elminate the obvious cases (e.g. fitting an oscar into a 10 g tank, or trying to put salt water fish into freshwater tanks).  

Ultimate responsibility is on the owner.  I lost a $300 stingray 2 weeks ago, because of not knowing how to properly change carbon in my filter.  My own stupidity, sure it would be great if someone would have advised me to not simply keep adding carbon thinking that the old pouches might still be effective.  Tough lesson in fish keeping.

If a fish store employee can help you out - consider that a bonus.  If they can't - there is nothing wrong with that.  Or if they are uncertain (usually you can tell if someone isn't positive in their response - may want a second opinion in that case).  If an employee says to you "a maybe it will work".  Be prepared that what you are trying to do, just might not work.  I sincerely doubt that anyone has ever encountered a pet store employee purposefully giving terrible advise.  The employees are not vets, not chemist and not miracle workers - however, there are many excellent people who work here in Ottawa who know alot about fish keeping.  I hope know one ever lays a guilt trip on an employee for any fish loss.

Also, it would be great to have a fish database at the local pet store.  But that is mere fantasy.  To produce a database and upkeep in with all fish that a store may have would be quite costly.  It is really unnecessary, since there are thousands of web pages where you can read up on fish profiles and compatibility.  Also, just by having anything idiot proof doesn't mean it will eliminate idiots.  I don't think you can stop someone from putting a pirhana in their fish tank.

There are way worse things to complain in life than the service at a fish store - like the stupid price of gas.

p.s.  I go to Big Al's on Innes regularly.  All the staff there are excellent.  As long as there are staff near the fish counter, who cares if they are talking to one another - it can probably get boring every now and then constantly being around fish, or waiting for your shift to end.  Service industry is HARD I could never do it, to expect perfect service everyday with a smile - dealing with stupid people, people who know everything about fish, etc ...  might be impossible.

Quote from: "Sting-Ray"Seems to be some very opionated people here.

Including yourself, apparantly.  (ducks)

(sorry, just trying to lighten the discussion  :lol: )

I didn't try to be opinionated.  Seems to be too many people in this world not appreciating the things that they do infact have around them.  Things could always be worse.

Quote from: "Sting-Ray"Also, just by having anything idiot proof doesn't mean it will eliminate idiots.  I don't think you can stop someone from putting a pirhana in their fish tank.

My favorite quote "Make it idiot-proof and they'll build a better idiot"

Quote from: "Sting-Ray"I didn't try to be opinionated.  Seems to be too many people in this world not appreciating the things that they do infact have around them.  Things could always be worse.

Its alright to have an opinion- it leads to change. Opinions are what spark improvement (or make this worse, lol).

Complaining about one thing doesnt mean you dont appriciate something else.