OVAS

Been playing with SketchUp today.  Here's what I came up with for now.  I'm just about to pull the trigger on 48 Cree LEDs.  Stay tuned.

I modeled the heatsink to this one from Heatsinkusa.com:
http://www.heatsinkusa.com/categories/8.460%22/?sort=priceasc (http://www.heatsinkusa.com/categories/8.460%22/?sort=priceasc)

Mounted on 1" angled aluminum bars.  Cross braces are 1" square aluminum tubing.

Leds are in the mail!

24 CREE XP-G R5 Cool White
24 CREE XP-E Royal Blue

Open to suggestions on drivers/power supplies.

I have an Apex, so 0-10V is a must. Let me hear what you think I should go with. Only requirement is to be able to dim blues and whites seperately.

Parts List up-to-date (27 March, 2011)

• 4x Meanwell ELN-60-48D
• 24x CREE XP-E Royal Blue 3W LED on star
• 24x CREE XP-G R5 Cool White 3W LED on star
• 3x 8.46"x12" Heatsinks
• 1x 72" 1" Aluminum angle (cut in two parts).
• 1x 36" 1" Aluminum square bar

QuoteLeds are in the mail!

24 CREE XP-G R5 Cool White
24 CREE XP-E Royal Blue

Open to suggestions on drivers/power supplies.

I have an Apex, so 0-10V is a must. Let me hear what you think I should go with. Only requirement is to be able to dim blues and whites seperately.

My vote is for meanwells.  :)

Quote from: JetJumper on March 11, 2011, 09:14:12 PM
My vote is for meanwells.  :)

That was my initial thought, but I'd need 4.  StevesLeds has some drivers that look like they could handle the bulk with only 2 drivers.  (4 parallel strings of 6 leds times 2).  Of course I'd still need a power supply, but I have access to those for fairly cheap.

Mr. Canada Post had some gifts for me yesterday!

My 3 heatsinks arrived from Heatsinkusa.com

I also received my leds ( 24 XP-E Royal Blue and 24 XP-G Cool Whites ) from Rapidleds.com

I drilled and tapped the heat sinks so I can mount them on the angle aluminum bars that will hold everything together.  The green tape is just so I don't scratch the aluminum too much.

I will likely start to drill and tap the holes to hold the led stars tonight.  I'm glad I have a drill press for that!  96 holes... yuk!

Quote from: HomerJ on March 22, 2011, 04:16:22 PM
I will likely start to drill and tap the holes to hold the led stars tonight.  I'm glad I have a drill press for that!  96 holes... yuk!

They make thermal adhesive you know. Man I would not have the patience you have. I would just be gluing them on.

Quote from: NanoSF on March 22, 2011, 04:46:32 PM
They make thermal adhesive you know. Man I would not have the patience you have. I would just be gluing them on.

Yes, I know but since I'm not sure about the color ratio so I'd rather keep the option to be able to remove the LEDs if I need to.  Screws will take a while but will be the most flexible in the long run.

Phew.... Drilled all the holes, and tapped about 1/2 of them last night.  It's not too bad once you get the hang of it.  And I only managed to break one drill bit, and one tap bit.  :-S

Whew! Done drilling and tapping 96 holes! It wasn't as bad as I thought with some music and a (few) beers.

Test fitted a few LEDs. Next step is figuring out the cleanest way to wire them up.

Nice thing about aluminum is how soft it is compared to steel. Much easier to work with. Looks great. All you projects are so tidy and impressive. How are you driving these? Do you have the tiny individual drivers or a few bigger ones?

Slowly getting there.

I have mounted my LEDs, after putting a small dab of Arctic Silver thermal compound behind each star.  Everything wired and ready to try out!

Man it's getting exciting. Fire it up and post to tell us how it went. Are you driving parts of the blue separate from the whites? Will you have control of the lighting cycles? Are one colour on the black wire and the other colour on the red wire?

Yes, the whites are on the black wire, and the blues on the red wire (or the other way around, I don't remember!).

I am using 4 Mean Well ELN-60-48D dimmable drivers.  12 LEDs on each.  So theoretically, I should be able to control the 4 sets of 12 separately.  I don't think I need that kind of granularity, AND I only have 2 0-10V channels available on my APEX controller, so I will combine the 2 white drivers into a single control signal, and the 2 blue drivers into a single signal as well.  I can upgrade my apex later if I need more granular control.

I will likely try it out tomorrow, I need to build a cable for my APEX first.

Well even if you did have 4 separate controls they would be sided rather than progressively brighter. Might as well just have 2.

Would these LEDs in this configuration have the old Christmas tree lights problem? If one goes dead they all go out and you can't find the dead one? Or does a dead one still pass through the power?

How do you know what driver to use and how many to hook up to it. There are so many Meanwell drivers what is the difference other than some have dimming and some don't?

I see a Meanwell CLG-60-24 for sale in BC on Ebay for example. How would I know how many Cree LEDs to hook up to that, and does that drive even work with those LEDs? I am so electronically useless  :-\

BTW I am not asking you to take the time to tell me the answer to my example, just in general how do I find these answers?

Quote from: NanoSF on March 26, 2011, 07:15:16 PM
Man it's getting exciting. Fire it up and post to tell us how it went.

This is looking great. Very impressive.

Quote from: NanoSF on March 26, 2011, 10:50:29 PM
Well even if you did have 4 separate controls they would be sided rather than progressively brighter. Might as well just have 2.

Having them sided would allow simulating the sun as it passes through the sky during the day, but I have no intention or need of doing that!

Quote from: NanoSF on March 26, 2011, 10:50:29 PM
Would these LEDs in this configuration have the old Christmas tree lights problem? If one goes dead they all go out and you can't find the dead one? Or does a dead one still pass through the power?

They can fail in either states from what I have read.  If it fails short, it acts as a "passthrough" and everything else will still work.  The driver will have to work harder to maintain the proper amperage, but it shouldn't cause anything to blow up.  If it fails open, then yes, the whole string will go dark.  At which point it would take about 30 seconds with a multimeter to test the string and find the culprit.  Testing leds with a multimeter on "continuity" will actually light them up a bit, so it is really easy to test them for shorts or defects.

You can also wire shorter strings in parallel, but it is riskier to do so (see below why).

Quote from: NanoSF on March 26, 2011, 10:50:29 PM
How do you know what driver to use and how many to hook up to it. There are so many Meanwell drivers what is the difference other than some have dimming and some don't?

Well first, the disclaimer.  This is based on MY understanding of how things work, from the reading I have done in the past while.  Please correct me if anything I say here is wrong!

It depends on a few things.  How many leds you want to power is the biggest factor.  And at what amperage you will drive them.  Driving them at high amperage will shorten their lives.

LEDs have what is called a forward voltage, which is the voltage drop that will occur as voltage passes through them.  For example, my XP-Es are rated at 1000mA max.  They have a forward voltage of 3.2V at 350mA, and 3.5V at 1000mA.  I am planning on driving them around 750mA, so the forward voltage will be something like 3.4V.  That means to power a string of 12 LEDs at 750mA, I would need 12x 3.4V = 40.8V.  That means I need a 48V driver.  As you can see, I could have gone with 13 leds per strings (as a lot of people do) and still would have remained in the save zone (44.2V), but getting too close to 48V is playing with fire.

As for the types of drivers, for the 48V, there is a non dimmable (self explanatory!) a ELN-60-48D and a ELN-60-48P.  There are 2 ways to dim using different controllers.  Some have 0-10V control, which is just a 0-10V signal, that is equivalent to the % dimming you want.  0V = off, 10V = 100%.  5V = 50%, etc.  This is what the 48D driver supports.  The other method, it called PWM (which stands for, I think, Pulse Width Modulation).  Using this method, the controller uses a 5V signal, but alternates it on and off a varied number of times per second.  This happens so fast that your eyes don't see the leds turn on and off, but that's enough to make them appear dimmer or brighter.

Quote from: NanoSF on March 26, 2011, 10:50:29 PM
I see a Meanwell CLG-60-24 for sale in BC on Ebay for example. How would I know how many Cree LEDs to hook up to that, and does that drive even work with those LEDs? I am so electronically useless  :-\

That appears to be a 24V driver.  That means you could run 24V / (the forward voltage of your leds) = the number of leds you can drive.  That would be 6 or 7.  It is rated at 2.5A, so you could run 2 strings of leds in parallel, but be aware it is really risky to do that.  In the case one led in one of the strings fails open, double the voltage will now try to go through to the remaining string.  Smoke will happen, and you will lose 6 or 7 leds times 5$ each. :-S

Quote from: NanoSF on March 26, 2011, 10:50:29 PM
BTW I am not asking you to take the time to tell me the answer to my example, just in general how do I find these answers?

Now you tell me??  :-b

Wow thank you for taking all that time to educate. I think I am getting closer to getting it now. There is a few gaps in my understanding still, but I hesitate to ask more as you have spent so much time already. So don't feel obligated to answer, maybe others could chime in and fill my gaps.

My understanding of amps is that they are taken (drawn) by the powered device, not give from the power supply. So is the reason that the LED would over amp itself that they will draw as many amps as they can and get brighter and brighter until they pop?

Next is how do you feed only 750mA? Does the driver allow you to set this? In your formula even at the full 1000mA you would only use 42 of the available 48 volts. How do you not over drive them?

Also if you can set it does this mean in the drive I used in my example I could run only one string of 7 LEDs and tone the driver down from the available 2500mA to 750mA? Wasteful I know, but in theory would it work?

Oh ya BTW have you had it over the tank yet? And you are right about the morning sun rise and evening sunset thing, that might be kinda nice :) Now that you have decided against it lol. That's whats great about this hobby though. There is always something else you can do in the future.

Quote from: NanoSF on March 27, 2011, 09:08:33 AM
My understanding of amps is that they are taken (drawn) by the powered device, not give from the power supply. So is the reason that the LED would over amp itself that they will draw as many amps as they can and get brighter and brighter until they pop?

You are right, it should have read "double the voltage" not "double the amperage".  Remember these are constant CURRENT drivers.  They will adjust the voltage to keep a stable current.  In the case where one of your led string dies when wired in parallel, the leds will still use up the same amount of amps, but the driver will push double the voltage.

Quote from: NanoSF on March 27, 2011, 09:08:33 AM
Next is how do you feed only 750mA? Does the driver allow you to set this? In your formula even at the full 1000mA you would only use 42 of the available 48 volts. How do you not over drive them?  Also if you can set it does this mean in the drive I used in my example I could run only one string of 7 LEDs and tone the driver down from the available 2500mA to 750mA? Wasteful I know, but in theory would it work?

On the drivers I am using, there is an adjustment screw.  Rapidled has a nice howto on adjusting the drivers.

http://www.vinnymarini.com/pictures/rapid_docs/Using%20Your%20Dimmable%20Driver.pdf

The idea is that you turn it all the way down, and then with a multimeter inline, you crank it up until the mA are what you want.  I don't know about the driver you are looking at, but the ones I use are adjustable from 24-48 volts. 

Quote from: NanoSF on March 27, 2011, 09:08:33 AM
Oh ya BTW have you had it over the tank yet?

Nope, I want to avoid having rigging something up "just to try".  That's usually when something goes wrong!

Nice work and great info I. This thread... Should be stickied

One question...  What are you doing with the third Heatsink?

Quote from: Hookup on March 27, 2011, 10:13:13 AM
One question...  What are you doing with the third Heatsink?

You have a third? I thought you either had 2 or 4 since you said you can buy up to 4 in one shipping crate. If you want to sell it let me know  :) :) :)

BTW thanks a million again for all the information. I think I basically get it now. Just have to read up now that I can actually follow what they are talking about.

I got the 3rd heatsink just cause it wasn't more expensive to have it shipped, and I wanted to have an extra one if I ever find out what I have is not enough, or if I upgrade to a bigger tank later.

A bit of progress.  I've been looking for a way to mount the 4 Meanwell drivers into a nice clean setup.

What do you get when you visit the scrap pile at work?  A 1U Rackmount fan enclosure.  Of course you know by now I had no interest in the fans themselves...

I drilled them out, added an extra AC socket since I need 2 seperate AC feeds (Blues and Whites).  The enclosure is made of soft aluminum so it was really easy to cut.  A few wires stripped and solder joints later, and I have something half-decent, self contained and really slim.  I might make a cover for it but I first want to see just how hot the Meanwells get.

All I need is to make a cable for the Apex now, and I'll be able to test these babies!

Awesome  :D

Very nice clean job HomerJ!

Bruce

very nice in deed...

Reminds me I need a label maker. ???

Quote from: Hookup on April 01, 2011, 09:56:10 AM
Reminds me I need a label maker. ???

These things are a bloody rip-off!  IIRC, I paid 29$ for the p-touch label maker.

It costed me 21$ for a label "refill" this week...

It's just like printers. The refills are almost as much as the printer  :)

I feel bad for not having pictures, but I'm done!  I put the finishing touch this afternoon, in the middle of a 5 year old play date, so I didn't have time to take pictures.

I adjusted the drivers:  800mA for the XPE Royal blues, and 1.2A for the XPG Cool Whites.  That is a bit overkill on the XPGs, since it looks like I need to dim them to about 80% to get a nice color.  I guess I could have set them to 1A.  If I had to do this build again, I probably would get a bit more blue LEDs, and less whites.  Everything is a bit too white for my taste.  Since I have used screws to mount everything, I could adjust, but I don't see myself ordering 6 leds and pay shipping on such a small order.  If anyone orders from RapidLed, let me know, I'd love to tag along.  Or I could supplement with the blue ReefBrite I already have, but I'd love to keep everything self contained.

In the end, everything worked first try, which is nice considering the time it took me to wire everything!

I'll try to get some pics tomorrow.  The shimmer effect is pretty awesome!

Update :)

Quote from: FocusFin on April 06, 2011, 04:36:26 PM
Update :)

Patience!  My canopy has to be finished before I can put them on the tank.  Some staining and varnishing is in order first.

Sorry

Quote from: FocusFin on April 06, 2011, 05:26:39 PM
Sorry

Haha that looks as pathetic as you meant it I'm sure. Ya I tried pushing for some updates once before, but that HomerJ is one methodical dude.

I hope I didn't sound rude!  If so, it wasn't the intention.

The fixture as it is now is going to be too close to the water for my taste if I just rest it against the frame.  When it is in my canopy, I'll be able to adjust the height.

As for the lack of updates, I wouldn't put it as being methodical.  It's just hard to do anything during the typical 15 or 30 minutes of "free time" I have every day!  Putting up the fixture to take pictures only to take it down again seems like a waste of valuable time!

Speaking of which... my 15 minutes are up... :-S

Don't worry HomerJ it was a compliment. I admire it. I get anxious and jump the gun sometimes. You are very thorough and precise. That is what I mean by methodical. And you were not rude, I was (I assume we were both) just joking.

Quote from: HomerJ on April 06, 2011, 07:33:50 PM
I hope I didn't sound rude!  If so, it wasn't the intention

Don't worry I just pushed it down into a tight little ball and I'll never speak of it again ;D

Not even close to being rude...ignoring the post altogether would be kinda rude but otherwise...

I've been following your and bitterman's builds with great admiration and can't wait to see the finished products so I thought I would pester you guys a bit :P

Looking forward to more updates.

And yes I was trying to look pathetic ;)

Wow, I can't believe it's been THAT long.  The LED fixture has been sitting in the garage since APRIL!!!!  Ready to be installed.  I'm ashamed.  But guess what.  This afternoon, I have done the impossible.  I have installed my led fixture!

Still messing about with the Neptune program, but I think I have it right.  The shimmer effect is pretty awesome, and I think I like the colors better than with the old 4x36" T5 setup I had.

I promise pictures tonight or tomorrow once the lights have fully ramped up.

About time!

Quote from: Hookup on March 27, 2011, 10:13:13 AM
Nice work and great info I. This thread... Should be stickied

One question...  What are you doing with the third Heatsink?

And for the record... NOTHING.  Contact me if interested.

I was gonna msg you a week ago to see if I could borrow the drill bits but It said u hadn't been active in awile. Glad to see ur back!

PS- lmk if i can borrow the bits  ;D

Hey guys, how many holes can you drill with these bits? I've been looking to drill some holes too....  ;)

Quote from: salvini55 on September 24, 2011, 10:57:20 PM
I was gonna msg you a week ago to see if I could borrow the drill bits but It said u hadn't been active in awile. Glad to see ur back!

PS- lmk if i can borrow the bits  ;D

Are you talking about the drill bits to drill the holes themselves, or the bits to tap threads into the holes?  In all honesty, you're probably better off buying new ones, I remember stretching the last one more than I should have!

The good news is, I bought mine at Ottawa Fasteners and Supply, and they are only a few dollars each.  They have the recommended drill bits sized for the screw size you'll use, and the stainless screws too.  If you have more than a few holes to tap, I suggest buying more than one, as you'll likely break one before you get the feel of it.

If you really want to borrow mine, I'm happy to loan it, but be warned it's not as sharp as it used to be.

I was refering to holes for the overflow and return. Probably 1 to 1.5 inches but I am still researching. What is the application where you drill and thread holes for screws?

Thanks.

Quote from: SeaKing on September 25, 2011, 03:52:19 PM
I was refering to holes for the overflow and return. Probably 1 to 1.5 inches but I am still researching.
Thanks.

A bit confusing when posted in a LED build thread!  I have lost track of who has the drill bits.  It is a forum member, but the name escapes me.  I know they've been passed around quite a bit.

Quote from: SeaKing on September 25, 2011, 03:52:19 PM
What is the application where you drill and thread holes for screws?

On page 1 of this very thread:

http://ovas.ca/forum/index.php?topic=49424.msg275446#msg275446

Yes, i switched topics unknowingly. I thought Salvini was asking about bits to drill holes in a tanks.  Sorry for the confusion...

Quote from: HomerJ on September 24, 2011, 04:03:02 PM
I promise pictures tonight or tomorrow once the lights have fully ramped up.

I'm getting anxious!!

Quote from: Chubs on September 26, 2011, 06:07:46 PM
I'm getting anxious!!

Sorry!  By the time I'm freed up at night, it's already lights out!!!  I'll try again tonight.

Ok, I did try to take pictures, but I couldn't take proper pictures to save my life.  The colors look awful.  Any tricks?  I have a dinky little Sony camera, and a Canon EOS 5D at my disposal.  So far, the Sony makes better pictures.  I assume it's because I don't know how to use the 5D!

What is the space between 2 LED?

Quote from: khanhnguyen99 on October 27, 2011, 03:16:38 PM
What is the space between 2 LED?

The heastinks are 12" and there are 6 leds spread evenly so ~2" between each led.

I've seen the lights.  They look fantastic.  He also did a phenomenal job on the build itself.

Quote from: Rybren on November 01, 2011, 08:36:10 PM
I've seen the lights.  They look fantastic.  He also did a phenomenal job on the build itself.

Thanks for the comments!  I'm pretty happy with the build overall.

Picked up a reefbrite from him and got a demo on the light,
Very impressive on the build

Do you use lens on the LEDs? I didn't see in pictures.

I just wondering if optics/lens are needed or not.

Not using lenses at the moment.  I am close enough to the water that I can get by without them. I'd probably need them if I raised the fixture higher.

Do you rememebr if Rapidleds.com users USPS or other carriers for shipping?

Yes, they used USPS the few times I ordered from them.

when can you put up some pictures? really want to see this!