OVAS

I'm starting a new 20g, and this is my first attempt at a mountainscape.

Comments and harsh critiques are welcomed  8)

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2-4" Fluorite Black substrate on top of blue styrofoam (in the rear corners), with rocks are from the Ottawa River.

I photoshop'ed some HC and Riccia to get an idea what it could look like.

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I'm not sure which would look best:  HC in the foreground/lower levels and Riccia on the mountains (as pictured), or vice-versa.  I guess I need to spend more hours in Photoshop...

I also need to find a spot for these:
- Fissidens fontanus
- Fissidens splachnobryoides
- Star Moss
- Flame Moss
- Plagiomnium affinis

Any suggestions, things I should keep in mind for easier maintenance ?

I'll try to keep this as low tech as possible, the bare minimum to keep riccia and hc happy. No CO2 if possible but that might change if required ( I have a small, commercial yeast based co2 reactor I could hook up, bought it a while back never tried it )

You are talking some hard plants to grow and groom... ;) Riccia is the hardest I found to keep in place. HC  roots were Riccia is more of a floating plant and it wants to do just that. If you have the right lighting, CO2 and find the best balance for your ferts then HC would be my bet. You can also look at some of the mosses they can be easier to prune and anchor than Riccia... IMHO and experiences.

I know I have saltwater, BUT.. I always appreciate a sweet freshwater aquascaped tank.  This will look awesome when its going! 

you should add a tree like this

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I think that would be the icing on the cake :D

I don't have a lot of experience with Riccia but documented myself well, I think ;-).  Stainless steel mesh is coming through the mail, I'll use that and hair nets to secure the Riccia in place. As far as I know this works well as long as it doesn't grow too thick.

So yah, I think it's wise not to use too much or I'll spend all my evenings trimming...

HC seems to be doing ok in my other non-co2 tank, but definitely grows faster in my hi-tech tank.

@Jet I used to have such a tree, I've posted about it somewhere I'm too lazy to look for ^.^  It was cool for a while, but the java moss was a mess to clean up and required regular trimming for it to look good, it was too much work for me in the end.


What about the other plants I mentionned ? AQmagic lists them all as hardy, adaptable, and low requirements.  I hope this is right.

Thing with those tanks they are mostly photographed at the peak time just after setup and pruning. These tanks are hard to build nd even harder to maintain!

I like the hard scape thus far, maybe take a read of this just to give you some good ideas I found it to be useful.
http://www.aquatic-eden.com/2006/11/golden-rule-of-aquascaping.html

The plant list is large and I would try and keep in simple stick to a few species 2-4. I like your choice of the HC and Ricci (mine all ways seems to break away from its hair net and make its way to the top of the tank) for your ground cover plants I would keep them as pictured IMO. As for the mosses I like Fissidens fontanus and weeping, You can attach these to flat rocks and place them on top of the stones or wtvr. And they can easily be moved around or taken out of the tank and trimmed and place back in.
I would agree with Dan There is a lot of grooming involded with your plant selection, I would try and keep it simple and save your self hours of work later. I am learning this first hand with my Dwarf hair grass growing like a weed in my tank and I have to trim it every other week at least.

Thanks for keeping me in check with regards to plant selection.  I hear you, fewer is better.  I'll keep it to HC, Riccia, Fissidens and Weeping moss as you say, these were already my favorite four in the list.

This tank is not meant to be a show tank in any way ;-) even though it's mostly inspired by AGA, APC and ADA entries.

It's more of an experiment to teach me a) how to care for these plants on a slightly larger scale and b) see how much time & effort need to go into maintaining this tank.  Then I can apply the good and bad experiences when I redesign my 59g later this summer.

Btw I've actually used the golden ratio in this scape ;-) that is the lowest point (valley) in the background.  I wonder if I should add more rocks in the middle to break line of sights;  as-is, there isn't a lot of cover for the fish, pretty much one big open area.

Just for kicks, here are a few sources of inspiration for this design:
http://img24.imageshack.us/img24/7424/0021ey.jpg
http://img11.imageshack.us/img11/6751/0003iy.jpg
http://4.bp.blogspot.com/_deZN17rcm1w/SxGAQBzkaWI/AAAAAAAAAfw/_GqEfbApLwM/s1600/AGA2009TDT1.jpg
http://www.akvaristikaonline.com/images/boban/img_8719.jpg
http://2.bp.blogspot.com/_MOTNQWz_Hf0/TGvCA99f2BI/AAAAAAAAAOE/3u3MdFKj2gE/s1600/111.jpg

I agree with Dan that a moss might be better to use than riccia.  I have done scaping with riccia before in the past, and once it grows in it is lovely... but the problem is that it will quickly out grow, detach from the surface you want covered, and it strives to float to the tank top.  After having worked with it IMHO other plants are better for the covered effect.

I offer you the alternative idea to use either Christmas moss, or even java moss, and cover your items with that, using black cotton thread to hold in place, or the mesh.  It will grow quite nice.  Once it grows too big you may prune the moss with scissors, giving it a "hair cut".  In the long run you'll enjoy more consistent pleasant results.

Of course it is your tank and your hobby.  If your heart wants to play with riccia then go right ahead.  You'll enjoy the experience.  However if you want something that will look good month after month after month after month, with minor maintenance, then try a moss instead.

I found what looks like Star Moss or Tortula Moss in my backyard.  I wish I could put it in my tank - but I won't because a) I don't think it's aquatic and b) don't want to risk introducing nasties (and dirt) in my tank.

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+1  Do some more Goggling on that topic... I read some articles on terrestrial moss and it has been used in aquaria. Phoenix moss will root easier than most and grows quite quickly in right conditions.

Yes, Enriko gave me a small piece of Phoenix moss a few weeks ago. I love it.  It took two weeks to acclimate to my tank and now its growing really nice, lots of tiny apple-green buds all over, it's going to be nice once it's a little bigger.


FYI the hardscape pictured above no longer exists.  I took it all down aha !  After a week of looking at it from all angles, it just didn't please my eyes so much any more.  Also as you guys pointed out there were practical challenges with it.

I'm starting from scratch, just now.  Going for something a bit less extreme this time ;-)

New scape :

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With pieces of 1" foam in the rear corners, it brings the substrate to 4.5" at its deepest point - on average it's about 3.5" in the rear and 1.5" in the front.

I have 4Kg of Fluval Stratum laying around. I wonder if I should layer it on top of the fluorite...  Does it affect PH, GH and/or KH ?  Will it be too light to hold HC down on its own ?

I am liking your current hard scape a little more then your last set up, seems more blanced to me.
What is your plant selection, the same as before?
I have not used Fluval Stratum before, I am using something similar to an ADA product. If I do remember correctly Charlie used Fluval in one of his tanks, maybe send him a PM for more info.

I decided on using only fluorite black.
The tank is filled and cycling now. I filled up the canister with media and mulm from my 59g tank. Should speed things up a little.

I think I'll let it cycle without any plants and in the dark, I've heard it helps keep algae in check and the bacteria bed likes darkness.

For this tank it would like only tiny and small plants.
- Hemianthus Callitrichoides to cover 30-50% of the surface
- Riccia attached to small pellets. I'll be able to pick each one individually for trimming, and move them around as I see fit, or toss them if it's too much trouble.
- Mosses (I have java and fissidens, and flame moss is in the mail, let's hope it survives the trip)
- Hemanthius Micrantemoides (a big maybe) in the far corners.  It will need to be trimmed short and regularly otherwise it will unbalance the entire setup.
- Anubias Petite if I can manage to keep it petite. Sometimes it likes to grow bigger leaves than you'd expect...

Any other suggestions ?  Is it possible to find glosso locally ?  I have never seen it in the stores, and I asked for it a few times in the LF board but nothing came up.

The set up looks great. I can't wait to see the finished product.
Make sure the hair net is tied down tight. I had a cory get stuck in a hair net luckily I was able to cut him out.

I have decided to try the Dry Start Method (http://www.barrreport.com/showthread.php/3594-The-Dry-Start-Up-Method-for-Planted-Aquariums) with this tank.

Last weekend I planted HC. Took a while. I used about 8 sq. inches that I carefully painfully split into individual plantlets, and used tweezers to bury the roots as much as I could while keeping the leaves above the substrate.

The water level is very close to the surface at the front, but because there are hills, most of the area is above water level, not too high it seems because water gets there through capillary action.  If it starts to dry up too much I will tilt the tank back a little.

The tank is covered with a saran wrap, poked with a toothpick to allow some air exchange.

48w of T5HO for 12h a day.


These pictures were taken after 24h.  Lots of condensation.  I poked a few more holes in the saran wrap.

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Nice update, I really do like your hard scape for this one its look solid.
Are you planning on adding any other plants once the dry start has grown in? I remember you taking about others, whats your current vision for this tank ?

Wow.. Projects like this make me want to start a fresh water, planted tank...  I do have 3 empty aquariums sitting in my storage room..........

Quick update:
Third day in, I can already note some progress.  I picked out 2 plantlets that had withered and started to turn brown.  The rest is without a doubt doing well: rich colors, solid feel when poked with tweezers, I could almost swear I noticed new leaves - but with over 114 plantlets its hard to tell... anyways, looking good so far ;-)

Quote from: morrom on July 13, 2011, 08:55:47 AM
whats your current vision for this tank ?

A nano, natural scape -- not nano as in tiny tank, but nano as in tiny representation of a big real life scape. Whatever is the proper term for this ;-)   I want to make it look as though it was few orders of magnitude bigger than it actually is.

The rock should look fairly imposing, so only tiny plants in front & between them.  Might add Hemianthus Micranthemoides in the back but I'm not sure yet....

This will give you an idea of the scale I'm going for:
http://bit.ly/niU2Ym
http://bit.ly/q3vUcN
http://bit.ly/q6jzuE

I just love the illusion of immensity you get from these small tanks !

Nice to hear you have some progress already and the plants are taking, from my readings the only down fall of the DSM is the time it takes for the carpet to grow in before you fill the tank. But IMO the problems that can be avoid by doing it are for sure a more then fair trade off. Weekly pics IMO  ;D !!!
I hear you I love the Iwagumi Nano style tanks as well, they are very pleasing to the eye. Nice to sit down in front of them and enjoy your hard work. I like your vision for this tank, I'm sure it will look killer when its grown in!
What live stock are you planning to have? Imo a smaller type of fish that skoals (I do remember your other post about smaller fish  ;) ) and shrimp to keep all that HC clean!
Personally I really like cherry shrimp they are cheap cute and do a good job in the right numbers at keep things clean, and are cute to boot. Amano shrimp are really awesome as well a lot bigger and not as cute tho  :o lol.

Exactly.  Small rasboras or tetras, and a few shrimps  8)  I love the chili / mosquito rasboras but they may not like my water (PH 8, GH 3, KH 18 out of the tap) and I'm not really into using peat or whatnot to change the water params unless its a must.

Week 1:

Still alive ;-)
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It's growing  :)

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Except one plantlet died...

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Another lost its leaves... then sprouted new ones  8)

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And this bigger one also came back from the dead, in force !

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So there. I sprayed the glass twice through the week.  I replaced the dead plant yesterday, and added ~5-10 drops of water near the plantlets that are higher up.  C'est tout.


I has the happy ^.^

Today marks week 4 of my dry start attempt.

For the most part it's going quite well.  The plants that are higher up (where there's less water in the soil) are struggling.  I might have made thing worst by try to compensate and spraying these areas a little too much... Or maybe its just bad luck, other plants nearby have same or worst conditions, and they are doing ok.

This was taken tonight:
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This is the progression from day 1, to week 1, to week 4:
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later this week I will add some fissidens, a tiny bit of flame moss, and a few sprouts of grass (I don't have much to start with).

Starting to grow in nicely, glad to see the Dry Start Method is working for you :)!

Quote from: morrom on August 08, 2011, 10:07:14 AM
Starting to grow in nicely, glad to see the Dry Start Method is working for you :)!

Yah I'm pretty happy with it !  Despite a handful of plantlets that melted, there's been absolutely no sign of mold whatsoever.  Temperature is around 27 nowadays (the basement got to 30 in the weekend, I had to perform a series of water changes on all my tanks to bring the temp down slowly, luckily the fish and plants handled it well !)

Extremely jealous that you went this way! I think i may end up copying you once I move into the new place, bah. I like it.

Keep the pics coming as I am quite interested to find out how long it took entirely because when i move the tank, I may end up trying to leave the fish in the bin with filtration and trying to get this up and going... I am a little tired of my setup :P

Do you think a tank of this size can host:

- 7x oto cats
- 2x 3" adult SAE
- 2x 2" sailfin plecos

For 4-6 weeks ?
I would probably need to add caves for the plecos, but I'm a little worried about the SAE.  This aquascape doesn't provide much hiding spots.

The reason I'm asking this is that I will be redoing my 59g soon.  Because the Dry Start worked well on this 20g, I'm willing to do the same on the 59g.  Not too sure what to do with the plants & fish in the meantime.  I could use a big rubbermaid tub I guess.  Might be a pain to maintain through 4-6 weeks though.

The HC carpet is coming along nicely.  Just one area I hadn't originally planned to cover with HC, has been planted in the weekend.  I'll have to wait another 2-3 weeks in order to get at least enough roots to hold it down.

In the meantime I'll work on the moss.  Until recently I was planning on using Pheonix, Flame and Christmas moss, but the more it goes, the more I'm letting myself convinced that mixing different mosses is a bad idea.  I fear it will eventually become one big mess if I don't keep on top of it and make sure the different mosses don't mix.

Most likely I will end up using mostly Phoenix Moss, and a little bit of Flame moss in the background, both will be separated by a few Anubias Nana.

I'm still working hard on finding an easy way to trim mosses without making a mess and ending up with bits and pieces everywhere.  Python doesn't work (it either clogs very quickly, or drains the tank by the time I'm only half done with the trimming).  Maybe just keep a net in one hand and scissors in the other....

What is your best advise for a clean, easy trimming of moss ?

I had a very healthy mass of moss growing in my 33 gal.  In tank, the only way I figured to prune without bits flying everywhere was to hold the moss between my fingers in one hand and cut with the other (like a barber trimming the tips of your hair).  Also have your filter off for this in case a few strands slip.  I was fortunate enough to have my moss on a piece of Mopani wood.  So I was able to easily remove the wood, turn it upside-down (over a bucket), and just snip..snip..snip.

I think you are wise not to mix mosses (at least close together).  It WILL become a tangled mess unless you keep it in check  >:(

I want Utricularia Graminifolia in this tank.

Anybody has this, locally ?  Please PM me asap and name you price, any amount will do.

Quote from: magnosis on October 05, 2011, 01:39:38 PM
name you price, any amount will do.

I'll bite... one million dollars!!   :P

Just kidding.  I have been looking for this one as well.  I will be in TO next month and was going to try to get some then... would be too late for you though.  :'(

That could work; if I can't find any by next week I'll consider ordering from Tropica, and there's no guarantee I would receive shipment before you head out to TO...

Please give me a heads up if / when you go.

BTW thanks for the tips regarding moss pruning. It should be manageable in the smaller tank.  The problem in my bigger tank is that it's too deep for me to reach down with both hands, but that is a story for another thread :P

Late update on this tank:

The latest snapshots were taken in late 2011  :-[

Dawn / lights out:

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Day / lights on:

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I've pulled the plug on this tank roughly 6 months ago, after the fish and most of the HC had been moved into my 59g.  Maintaining an HC carpet is a lot of work and I didn't have time to do that in two different tanks.  Also, I started having problems with one of my CO2 regulator and had to move the whole kit to my bigger tank. This 20g became a low-tech tank, and now it's a stale water tank with plants still growing (slowly) and pond snails having a blast.  I will probably auction it off if someone is willing to start where I left off and take on the challenge of cleaning the substrate, rocks and glass...