Well, I have a question..........
Well water parameters are pH 7.8, kH 12, gH 22. After peat filtration pH 6.0, kH and gH are 0. In my tank (15 gal), which has been poked and prodded since its conception about a month ago because I am never satisfied, has had many water changes as I have a dirt substrate capped with sand. The current tank parameters are pH 7.6! gH and kH at 6. I would assume by now with pure peat w/c that the original water in the tank would have been changed enough to lower the pH to 6.5 or so. How do I know if my sand is raising my pH? It's regular play sand from HD. The 2 rocks are inert as per BA. I haven't been mixing the peat water with well water before adding to the tank because the pH is to high for my requirements and I am trying to lower it. The original water was a mix of well and peat, but no well water has been added since. I have been doing 30% water changes each time ( usually twice a week).
Am I being paranoid and impatient or do you think there is something in my tank raising my pH?
Is there a particular reason you need the pH to be lower?
It's for apistos
Why not work with the water parameters you've been given? Because the only real way to lower pH effectively is to use RO water, and that's costly. Also, the fish you buy locally may already be acclimated to harder conditions.
Where in Ottawa are you?
I used to live in the Vanier area, and my ph was 9 out of the tap and in the tank around 7.5-8 and would NEVER change no matter what I did!
Sand will not change your ph if it's silica or play sand.
Are these fish wild caught? If not, they are used to the city water and will be fine!
Quote from: Lurch1 on March 14, 2012, 04:51:43 PM
It's for apistos
Which Apistogramma are you planning on keeping?
I'm out in the boon docks on well water.
Quote from: bizfromqc on March 15, 2012, 10:48:54 AM
Which Apistogramma are you planning on keeping?
Agassizi. I want to attempt breeding them this time round. I had them a while back and was limited because of water parameters.
Quote from: Nerine on March 15, 2012, 09:48:41 AM
Where in Ottawa are you?
I used to live in the Vanier area, and my ph was 9 out of the tap and in the tank around 7.5-8 and would NEVER change no matter what I did!
Sand will not change your ph if it's silica or play sand.
Are these fish wild caught? If not, they are used to the city water and will be fine!
Thats what I was concerned about. The peat seams to be working, but maybe the well water is very powerful in reverting it's changes.
Quote from: Lurch1 on March 15, 2012, 11:07:34 AM
I'm out in the boon docks on well water. Agassizi. I want to attempt breeding them this time round. I had them a while back and was limited because of water parameters.
Thats what I was concerned about. The peat seams to be working, but maybe the well water is very powerful in reverting it's changes.
I can't comment on the well water but I've also been using sand (white sillica) and added peat granules in my canister filter. Water out of the tap here (Gatineau) is between 7-7.5 and with the peat granules in the canister, I was able to bring it down to between 6-6.5 so a full unit on the pH scale.
Eric
Quote from: Lurch1 on March 14, 2012, 02:13:46 PM...After peat filtration pH 6.0, kH and gH are 0 ...The 2 rocks are inert as per BA...
Is 6 pH the minimum your test kit reads? Because if it is, your pH may well be lower than that, and you'd only be able to tell with a wide range test kit ~ 4-9 range. Also, the rocks may not be inert. I've used HD playsand before and have never had it affect my pH.
Quote from: bizfromqc on March 15, 2012, 11:14:51 AM...I've ... added peat granules in my canister filter. Water out of the tap here (Gatineau) is between 7-7.5 and with the peat granules in the canister...
The peat granules need to be recharged periodically because the magnesium, calcium and other elements are just being held by the peat and can leach back into the water. Using almond or oak leaves is another excellent method of producing blackwater conditions.
Quote from: exv152 on March 15, 2012, 11:47:51 AM
Is 6 pH the minimum your test kit reads? Because if it is, your pH may well be lower than that, and you'd only be able to tell with a wide range test kit ~ 4-9 range. Also, the rocks may not be inert. I've used HD playsand before and have never had it affect my pH.
The peat granules need to be recharged periodically because the magnesium, calcium and other elements are just being held by the peat and can leach back into the water. Using almond or oak leaves is another excellent method of producing blackwater conditions.
Definitely, I was planning on testing the water out every so often to see how its doing and possibly change the granules then (monhly maybe). I also have indian almond leaves that I have yet to put in the tank but after a little experimenting, i was hoping I could use both (because I like the look) and strike a good mix of leaves and peat.
Eric
Quote from: bizfromqc on March 15, 2012, 12:03:44 PM
Definitely, I was planning on testing the water out every so often to see how its doing and possibly change the granules then (monhly maybe). I also have indian almond leaves that I have yet to put in the tank but after a little experimenting, i was hoping I could use both (because I like the look) and strike a good mix of leaves and peat.
Eric
This reminds me of something I read a while back about Jack Watley, a world reknown discus expert, who suggested softening tap water with Canadian horticultural peatmoss to breed and keep discus. I've never tried it, but considering the cheap price of peat moss I may just buy some and try it out in a cannister filter. I love the tannins and the look it lends to a biotope-type setup.
What are the parameters the fish are being kept in currently ?
Keep in mind those parameters because you don't want to drastically change them!
Yeah 6 is the min pH. I am going to try and find the ratio of peat to well water to find a pH of 6.5 with a Kh of 3-6. I noticed little stones in my sand so I am wondering if they are reactive.
Quote from: Lurch1 on March 15, 2012, 05:47:52 PM
Yeah 6 is the min pH. I am going to try and find the ratio of peat to well water to find a pH of 6.5 with a Kh of 3-6. I noticed little stones in my sand so I am wondering if they are reactive.
What if you put some of the peat filtered water in a drinking glass, test it and let sit overnight, then test the ph/kh again within 24hrs. If it hasn't changed then there's a good chance something in your tank is affecting the ph.
I actually just did that and will be testing today. I also put some sand and dirt in with straight peat to see if it would alter it. I will post the results later on.
So the peat with sand and dirt had a pH of almost 7 over night from 6.4. I have a sand only peat mix now. I have a feeling it's the little stones in the sand. If thats the case then I will have to take the tank apart and replace the sand with pfs. Thankfully its only a 15 gal!
I used a substrate called Flora Base when I needed to reduce the PH. It worked perfectly and I didn't have to do anything! It's not an instant reduction in PH, but it certainly brought it below 7.
what type of sand do you have? where did you buy it?
and what type of 'dirt' is it ?
Its "play sand" from home depot and the dirt is miracle grow organic potting soil. The sand does have little stones in it along with the sand. It was very dirty and took a lot of washing.
Quote from: Lurch1 on March 16, 2012, 07:40:37 PMIts "play sand" from home depot and the dirt is miracle grow organic potting soil. The sand does have little stones in it along with the sand. It was very dirty and took a lot of washing.
Have you by chance used that tank previously for something else? I noticed you mentioned you also keep african cichlids.
No, the tank was in storage. I washed it out completely and started with new everything (other then the filters and heater).
Quote from: Lurch1 on March 16, 2012, 08:16:32 PM
No, the tank was in storage. I washed it out completely and started with new everything (other then the filters and heater).
You mentioned some stones from BAs, what kind of stones are they?
I'm not sure what the stones are called, but she put something on the first ones I wanted and they fizzled. I put those back and she tested my current ones with no reaction. The sand/peat mixture came back this morning with a pH of 7.4. SO the sand is definitely the problem. I guess I will be making a trip to the pool store. Fun fun.
Very strange as I have had play sand and no reaction!!
I am mildly irritated, but I should have known better to test it first.
The fizz test is done with vinegar and is an easy way to test any stones. But it's not 100% certain.
Mermaid pools on Merivale near Hunt Club sells a 50lb bag for about $7-9. The sand is really nice. But make sure to rinse it really well.
I am out near carleton place. The two options by pool companys were regular silca sand or crushed granite. What do you think?
At least it's not a HUGE tank!!! things could have been worse!!!!
Silica sand is great :) just rinse, rinse, rinse, rinse!! I put it in the tank with 3 filters after rinsing just to clear up the rest! it's VERY dusty!!
I agree with the silica, it's inert and looks good. If you place a plate at the bottom and pour the water in very slowly to not disturb the silica, or if you put news paper down and fill the tank, then remove the newspaper, the tank water should be much less clowdy. But you should still rinse the silica thoroughly.
Quote from: exv152 on March 17, 2012, 07:11:54 PM
I agree with the silica, it's inert and looks good. If you place a plate at the bottom and pour the water in very slowly to not disturb the silica, or if you put news paper down and fill the tank, then remove the newspaper, the tank water should be much less clowdy. But you should still rinse the silica thoroughly.
+1. Rinse and when you think you're done, rinse again ;)
It took my tank about 2 days to be crystal clear but in the end, its totally worth it, it just looks great and the fish love it.
FYI, got mine at Mermaid Pools on Ogilvie.
10-4. I'll go with that then. Thanks for all your help.