Following a link in another thread ("tank placement") led me to look into all-in-one systems. I eventually ended up here: http://www.nano-reef.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=132714
I have a bunch of freshwater tanks but have been looking at the smaller (pico/nano) reef setups and I really love the look of these tanks and I'd like to take the plunge one day...
I've got pretty much all the equipment to try and pull it off. I've got a spare 10G, plenty of plexi, a spare MJ1200, heaters, etc.. All I would need is a decent light to go on top.
I've never had a saltwater system before and this would be my first venture to the salty side, any reasons I should NOT be attempting this?
Thanks for your input
Eric
Only thing I'd say is that small systems can have their water quality turn quickly. Though I doubt any more quickly than a similar sized FW tank can turn. Just avoid delicate corals until you've got a feel for SW-specific parameters and you'll likely be fine.
You only need to worry about the lighting if you're keeping coral. If you've got a spare fixture sitting around, you can always start fish only and just plan appropriately for corals down the road (IE: only reef-safe fish).
I agree. Only difference i would leave the Pico or nanocubes for a bit. I would start a 30g. I quickly upgraded my sweet to a 75g just after a year of 30g. I found the 30 was getting too small. I would go bigger than a 10g IMO.
I know a guy who has a pico-reef with a clown goby, and a couple of crabs and snails, all without a filter - just powerheads and WCs.
Eh, I think 10g can be fine to start with.
I'm actually considering starting a 10G species tank in addition to the pain 75G tank. Have a mated pair of something small - maybe something like a Catalina Goby that can't be kept in the same conditions as the main tank.
I just like that everything is contained in the one tank, and contrary to what some people have said, I don't mind seeing the fuge on the side or a black cover. I might just give it a go and see.
I only have a mj1200 now and from reading on it, it might be too much for a 10G, err...
In circulation or power-head mode?
In circulation mode - oh yeah, way too much. Though even the 400 is probably too much in circulation mode for a 10G.
In power-head mode, it would depend on what you're keeping. You'd be looking at a turnover of around 30x per hour with the 1200, which would be okay with things that want high current. Might work reasonably well with a diffuser of some kind as well. For direct flow, I'd stick to a 400 or 600.
Here's a RC thread where someone did the same thing to a 10G, and used a 1200: http://reefcentral.com/forums/showthread.php?t=2122350
He said later in the thread that he swapped it for a 600, but a 900 might have been better.
Aww man, now I'm getting really tempted to do this too.
Quote from: bt on May 10, 2012, 12:14:03 PM
In circulation or power-head mode?
In circulation mode - oh yeah, way too much. Though even the 400 is probably too much in circulation mode for a 10G.
In power-head mode, it would depend on what you're keeping. You'd be looking at a turnover of around 30x per hour with the 1200, which would be okay with things that want high current. Might work reasonably well with a diffuser of some kind as well. For direct flow, I'd stick to a 400 or 600.
Here's a RC thread where someone did the same thing to a 10G, and used a 1200: http://reefcentral.com/forums/showthread.php?t=2122350
He said later in the thread that he swapped it for a 600, but a 900 might have been better.
Aww man, now I'm getting really tempted to do this too.
It would be as a circulation pump getting water in and out of the fuge as shown in the link I included at the beginning of the thread.
The poster there used a MJ400 for his 5.5 setup and as mentioned in the link you provided, buddy would opt for a 600/900 if he were to do it again.
err... so now I need a smaller pump.
Quote from: bizfromqc on May 10, 2012, 12:27:29 PMIt would be as a circulation pump getting water in and out of the fuge as shown in the link I included at the beginning of the thread.
That's where the terminology gets a little odd. Using it as a return pump is actually "powerhead mode".
(https://www.ovas.ca/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.aquabuys.com%2Fmm5%2Fgraphics%2F00000001%2Fmaxi-jet-pro.jpg&hash=b3978e3015bb43b87b2f3011d550384dc872eef6)
I'd be tempted to try it first, with something to split the flow into 2 or 3 nozzles or something before you go out and get a new pump. It might create enough head pressure to bring the current down to the right level. And hey, not like you've got anything to lose trying it first. You've already got the pump, and multiple circulation sources are a better anyways.
Quote from: bt on May 10, 2012, 12:44:22 PM
That's where the terminology gets a little odd. Using it as a return pump is actually "powerhead mode".
(https://www.ovas.ca/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.aquabuys.com%2Fmm5%2Fgraphics%2F00000001%2Fmaxi-jet-pro.jpg&hash=b3978e3015bb43b87b2f3011d550384dc872eef6)
I'd be tempted to try it first, with something to split the flow into 2 or 3 nozzles or something before you go out and get a new pump. It might create enough head pressure to bring the current down to the right level. And hey, not like you've got anything to lose trying it first. You've already got the pump, and multiple circulation sources are a better anyways.
Recommendations on attachment for the multiple outputs, nozzles?
I've got a lot more reading to do, that's for sure. I'm in no rush to do this but if and when I do, I want to do it right.
Eric
Loc-line is pretty common. But you might be able to get away with just pvc or flexible tubing and adapters. I'd go for the flexible stuff, personally. 1/2" diameter I think. Easy enough to take the fitting from the maxijet to the store with you, though.
Might be able to get away without a nozzle on the end of the tube, too, but it would probably be a good idea to have some way of adjusting the direction of the output. It would depend if you just want the tube sticking out of the barrier like in the nano-reef thread, or if you want a bulkhead like in the RC thread. Loc-Line is the only suitable nozzle I know of, but others might have alternatives.
Easiest is probably a Y adapter on the display side, with a small section of loc-line hose on each output and a straight nozzle on each.
I might go a bit more complicated though, and have the Y on the fuge side, feeding 2 outputs into the display so I could make more turbulent flow.
The "easiest" option would look something like the return in this:
(https://www.ovas.ca/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.monsterfishkeepers.com%2Fforums%2Fattachment.php%3Fattachmentid%3D760281%26amp%3Bd%3D1332269325%26amp%3Bthumb%3D1&hash=443656180e1ca465f0157a7ec870e9b92485fce0)
Food for thought, thanks a lot for the great ideas.
Lot of stuff to look into.
It's got me looking into it now too!
I'm not sure if my wife will be happy about this or not, since we're still in the process of stocking our main tank...
I'm a total noob at plumbing so bare with me here.
I like the idea of having two nozzles coming out to the display side of the AIO tank. Loc-tite seems like the way to go since you can pretty much configure it how you want and direct flow where needed.
If I use the MJ1200 as the main pump and want to use the loc-tite components, I assume I need a bulkhead with
1) No threads on the pump side so that I can hook it up to the output of the MJ via flexible tubing and clamps
2) Internal threads on the DT side so that I can hook up a loc-tite Y connector, two loc-tite flexible segments and nozzles
Am I right of totally out to fish (no pun intended)?
If so, is there a terminology I should be looking for when checking out bulkheads online? I see mentions of "slip" and have no idea what that means... I was also thinking of using 1/2" fittings and plumbing since that would nicely match the output of the MJ.
Thanks for the help,
Eric
*loc-line
This picture might clarify a bit more how the pieces go together.
http://i2.photobucket.com/albums/y29/trekbear/loc-linepic.jpg
Slip fittings do not have threads and just "slip" into each other, still a pretty snug fit and with the flow going to the path of least resistance the slip fittings will not "blow-out" on you.
Chances are that your maxi jet came with a small deflector to put onto the tip of the powerhead. This is a slip fitting.
Great, I'll have to check that out at home (photobucket blocked at work).
Yeah, loc-line ;) loc-tite is something else that I used in the past, not the same thing hehe Sorry about that.
does this work:
(https://www.ovas.ca/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fimg641.imageshack.us%2Fimg641%2F2627%2Floclinepic.jpg&hash=656ae06c836c9cbcf867f28a7228f4025ac7d537) (http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/641/loclinepic.jpg/)
Quote from: bizfromqc on May 11, 2012, 02:30:20 PM
Yeah, loc-line ;) loc-tite is something else that I used in the past, not the same thing hehe Sorry about that.
No worries ;D
No love :( Basically, if its an image hosting site, it's blocked...
I'll check it out tonight no worries, thanks for the 2nd try though.
For the bulkhead, there are a few ways to set it up, but for this I'd go interior threads on both sides, and use something like this - http://www.homedepot.ca/product/1-2-in-mnpt-x-1-2-in-barb-elbow/972792 - on the pump side. The barbs will let you take it off if you need to, but should be less likely to come off on it's own.
Most bulkheads will be threaded on the outside by default, to allow for tightening.
I'd look for something like this: http://www.plastictanks.ca/product.php?prod_id=00359
Going 1/2" the entire way is the way to go, IMO.
Slip just means no threading.
Being all internal, I don't know that I'd worry about a water-tight seal. Just has to be tight enough that it won't come loose on you. So no need for teflon tape, etc.
Are you going to split the flow on the display side (1 bulkhead) or the fuge side (2 bulkheads), or have you decided yet?
I'll try posting the picture zoom111 linked to directly here, since it's almost exactly what you need for a 1-bulkhead, 2-nozzle setup. Just need the hose from the pump to the elbow, and a loc-line Y adapter.
Sweet, I can see the picture! That's exactly the find of info I was looking for, thanks to you both.
I think i'd go with the two nozzles on the display size to allow for tweaking water movement. I don't think they would jump out at you too much since they're black and I'm probably going to go with a black background.
Thanks for the link to the HD adapter, that looks like something I'll definitely get. One of the cool thing about the original design (the one from nano-reef) was that the pump's output was wedged in the output hole making for easy removal and less vibrations since it wasn't sitting at the bottom of the tank. I'm going to have to play around with the placement and mounting of the MJ to reduce noise/vibration.
Thanks
The HD adapter appears to be (roughly) the same as the one in the top-left of zoom111's pic for what it's worth.
I wasn't a fan of how the pump was mounted on the nano-reef one. No bubble trap, and not evaporation-friendly. Though I'm not entirely sure you need a bubble trap on an internal chamber like that.
Edit: That probably was due to it being a 5.5 gal tank in the nano-reef thread, not a 10 gal tank like the RC thread. Makes sense now.
Ordered some parts online for the 10G AIO tank.
Decided to go with 1/2" loc-line and split the return in 2 on the display side
1/2" bulkhead (thread on display side and slip on pump side)
(https://www.ovas.ca/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fovas.ca%2Fgallery%2F6856_16_05_12_11_46_21.jpeg&hash=16c6dbfaabb0e48e3e1bab6e2f5202a7859529e7) | (https://www.ovas.ca/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fovas.ca%2Fgallery%2F6856_16_05_12_11_46_05.jpeg&hash=64d83fe1bd950fe518d211275239f8764d734c7b) |
Slip/Barb elbow adapter for easy removal of pump for cleaning/swapping.
| (https://www.ovas.ca/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fovas.ca%2Fgallery%2F6856_16_05_12_11_45_49.jpeg&hash=aa78cf25f4acccbab6c67649eced8b9c79662798) |
1/2" NPT connector for 1/2" loc-line
| (https://www.ovas.ca/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fovas.ca%2Fgallery%2F6856_16_05_12_11_47_01.jpeg&hash=a2a21d9aa91cc6495e80557eb19f5f6906acd542) |
Y fitting for 1/2" loc-line
| (https://www.ovas.ca/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fovas.ca%2Fgallery%2F6856_16_05_12_11_47_41.jpeg&hash=ae0164c9a8671ce7066c514fb2f7529c8ace1e86) |
12" loc-line segment (will be divided in 2 segments of 6")
| (https://www.ovas.ca/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fovas.ca%2Fgallery%2F6856_16_05_12_11_47_29.jpeg&hash=0f2e6b0cd2c19f75dc6b58c2602cb0bd1bf529ab) |
2 x 1 1/4" flare nozzle for 1/2" loc-line
| (https://www.ovas.ca/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fovas.ca%2Fgallery%2F6856_16_05_12_11_46_44.jpeg&hash=9d896dba42241d4030a8dfc989eaf1912fc3f51a) |
Next up is planning the number of chambers, size, shape, location, etc...
This is going to be fun :)
How much did that plumbing cost in total?
I think it's almost time for you to start a build thread for this project!
Quote from: bt on May 16, 2012, 03:15:58 PM
How much did that plumbing cost in total?
I think it's almost time for you to start a build thread for this project!
Parts were ordered from two places, 45$ total.
Loc-line parts from WorldTools.com, 31$ shipped and tx
Bulkhead and elbow from EBay, 14$ shipped
I would have bought the loc-line locally but the prices were a bit more and not in stock at the moment (Ray's). Shipping at WT was almost the same as the parts but even then, it pretty much came out to what I would have paid locally.
Good idea about the build thread, I'll start one soon.
Hi not sure you contacted me but I have most 1/2" Locline in stock
Ray
Quote from: ray on May 16, 2012, 04:17:44 PM
Hi not sure you contacted me but I have most 1/2" Locline in stock
Ray
That's too bad, I was going to get them from you but when I checked here:
http://raysaquarium.com/index.php?main_page=index&cPath=10_32
They all said Qty. 0.
hey i have a tank setup kinda similar to what you want
this is my first saltwater tank and ive gotta say for a small tank AIO is the way to go!
its like having that fancy sump setup except on a tiny tank and theres no possibility
of water on the floor (due to plumbing)
ive just got mine running filter floss and a heater in the rear chambers
there is lots of room back there i could fit a skimmer in there if need be
or a refugium but the system moves too much water through for that
you could make a separate area and tee off the return line for a low flow fuge
those things over complicate it though for me anyway
small weekly water changes have kept it going strong for the last 4 months
all of my beginner corals are showing growth and decent colour even under
my ghetto lighting setup (2 23w spiral cfls)
also im running a maxijet 1200 in power head mode, ive modded it slightly for
more flow by drilling holes in the impeller housing
youll want the 1/2 loc line not the 3/8 it holds the pump back too much and
its makes alot of unhappy noises
and to be honest even in my 5 gallon display portion i have dead spots
hence the other powerhead i do have a good bit of rock through 8 lbs roughly
i setup my whole tank for like $60 so its not perfect but for right now im having
a blast with it learning and experimenting
anyway heres some pictures theyre all pretty old from a month and a bit ago
i need fresh ones
Neat, thanks for sharing your pictures. It's looking a lot like what I had in mind for my setup.
I'm still struggling on how to figure out the chamber and baffles height, did you experiment a lot before finding out the correct setup or did you go from someone else's design?
Unless you've got something that needs a specific water level (ie: skimmer), the exact baffle heights don't matter too much. Baffle 1 should be below the level of the overflow - enough for a noticeable difference in water level between the first chamber and the main tank. Baffle 2 should be higher (might as well go right to the top) and up off the bottom. Make the first chamber large enough for any submerged equipment (heater, a skimmer if you want one), and otherwise make the 2nd chamber as large as possible.
Knowing what you want to put "in the back" first can help with the specific design.
I didn't really experiment with the baffle heights.
Instead I just set a couple goals and made a plan .
Those goals being 1 to minimize air space. In a
Small setup like this you want to have as much
Volume as possible for stability through dilution...
And 2 to have the water fall over fall over an edge
More than once, for surface skimming at the overflow
And airation before being returned bubble free.
So in my setup I have the water on the first two chambers
Set by te first baffle that touches the floor. The other flow
Under baffle is just to allow me to force water through whatever
Media I choose. I set the height to be about an inch before my
Overflow level allowing for surface skimming yet still hold lots
Of water. Water then flows into the bubble trap and return area
This is where you'll see all of your evaporation. I run the water
Level here about an inch lower than the level in the first sections.
I use a gravity fed auto top off contraption to hold this level
That's probably clear as mud I'm gonna add a picture later to help explain
I totally miss your reply, sorry about that.
Thanks a lot for the diagram, that's exactly what I was looking for.
Eric