No action in saltwater ?? And classifieds

[groupie02]

I totally get it. The OP asked questions related to the SW community. People provided answers. It's pretty simple.
It had to be SW.

[Feivel]

Is it really about the moderation of the classifieds?  OVAS Is a great RESOURCE of information, what happened to the support side of it? All your exp. reefers quit on you and the ones that are left end up talking between themselves  and totally ignore the topic on hand, then they go on about how their tanks are going between themselves. Not just one or two posts but most of them, and usually the same few that return comments to each other ignoring the question on hand. Someone else posts a pertinant answer to the question in the OP (2 pages later) then they realise OH SNAP! this isn't about ME, its about YOU!!! The quality of OVAS is not there. The new members dont feel welcome, The standard folk dont necesarily stay long at those biker style bars. Im sure there great people still....

I showed up at the very tail of all the calamity of the classifieds and most of the abuse from the members. i read about most of it. I know some of the ones responsible, do i know all the details and will I ever know? NO I wont. But i do know is that people like me are paying for it.... well maybee not next year, but i have been a paid member suporting and helping ovas grow for 3 years. I have been to a few meetings to help at first, meet the people in the community, put names to faces, create bond and relationships, and then afterwards to help promote the salty side. The posts on OVAS were diminishing and other self help forums were created. Some local sponsors were asked to join our forum but they refused, Why would a LFS refuse FREE promotions? Why would they not suport the local community? Why would they be upset then at other local competition that picked up on the mass interest of people in a group looking for items? Beyond me. Oh look, 3 new LOCAL stores offering saltwater stock, Oh look,MTL LFS is doing free delivery on orders over 150$ (250$ in ottawa) And they have some stock ottawa DREAMS of.... There more and more competition the more and more we prgress because of the COSTS of running and MAINTAINING a Reef Tank. You think i want to spend 80-120$ on a brain when I can get the SAME ONE for 35$ elsewhere? Im also in it for ME, and my wallet in the long run .... ANYWAYS .....

Sorry i missed the last meeting, was kinda very busy at Christmas, I will make an effort to make it to the giant auction this year. I will have a few frags to offer.

[Greatwhite]

Wow, we're on to page 5.... You guys need to stop feeding the trolls.    For those who are not aware of what a troll is, in forum terms;  A forum troll is someone who posts completely off topic and/or inflammatory comments in a forum with the hopes of getting an emotional response.

The OP innocently asked why the classifieds were slow because his frags were not selling as fast as they used to.  The answer, no one here is buying anything right now... Some advice was given on how to sell stuff better and branch out to hit a wider audience...  Move on... right?

NOPE. 

The discussion has degraded to bashing the execs and mods for causing the site to die.  The classifieds system was bashed...  The "ease of logging into the system" was bashed...  And then this turned into a salt vs fresh battle and OVAS vs Facebook - and it's salties' fault because the OP asked a salt related question....?

I don't blame Stussi for locking the thread, to be honest.  I would have locked it long before page 5 - and I wouldn't have unlocked it (although that would have started a whole new discussion, I'm sure).  He DID mention that the execs were meeting last night, they had read all the complaints and were going to talk about them.  One would think that would have stopped the griping, but no.

Honestly, I have full faith in the execs and their ability to run the site.  It is not THEM responsible for its success, it's US.  They are all volunteers with their own jobs and lives and really don't need to be called upon to defuse one or two individuals who insist on blowing things out of proportion.

They have said that moderating the classifieds was becoming a full time job (unpaid) because people were misusing the system.  So the decision was made to restrict posting ability to paid members.  That's a reasonable explanation to me.  Fishnut has asked (not sure how seriously?) who would be willing to step up to moderate the classifieds, and prevent malicious posters, etc.  I'd recommend any one of the people who kept this thread alive and pushed it to 5 pages by trying to start a fresh vs salt war.  They seem to not have anything better to do with their day.

It's fine to complain about things every now and then, but it is much better to SUGGEST IMPROVEMENTS than complain about shortcomings.  And then, once something has been mentioned - move on.  There's no need to keep repeating the same complaint, expecting an immediate answer.  There is probably not any one person who CAN answer for the entire group, and if there was, that person is probably working all day and not reading the thread.

[az]

I have few recommendations;

-let non members have minimum 5 free classified postings a year, general hobbyists do not need to sell stuff more often than that in a year.

-let basement/home business sw or fw be a sponsor as long they are a registered business from around here.

-organize more frequent workshops, meets etc, you dont need big guys, just hearing basics from everyday hobbyists help as we forget stuff all the time. you cant get discouraged if attendance was bad one time, you have to keep doing it.

-if you have someone looking to volunteer let him, if one exec holds two positions you would barely keep up, there will be no progress.

-add a clause in exec contract that when they get elected they need to hold the post for the duration, if its health reason sure, if not its unfair that you leave in the middle beacuse you didnt get along with someone or you got busy etc.


little changes nothing big or drastic needed.

[Fishnut]

I think you have the gist of it Feivel.  To be honest, I don't have a clue about how we can guide the club back to the days where people are less "me me me" and more about sharing and helping.  I joined OVAS to meet people who I can share my hobby with and who are fun to talk to about it.  As you said, the seasoned experienced members are getting sick of the stuff that goes on in this website and stop coming back.  I have seen too many experienced hobbyists ignored or shut down because some hot headed noob or semi-noob who hides behind a computer, thinks he knows it all.  Really...if you've been keeping fish for 20+ years, you're just going to stop helping people and go back to enjoying your hobby with those who are fun to talk to.

This exit of long time hobbyists has left the club with a large void.  New people come to the club and are welcomed with "me me me' or some other egotistical junk...or their questions are answered incorrectly by a fellow hobbyist who has it all wrong but thinks they know it all.

This whole forum is just holding the club back in so many ways.  We talked about it at the exec meeting last night.  It's so unbelievably frustrating.  

Perhaps it's time to get rid of the entire forum?  

We have a Facebook page.  We could just have that and a website to relay information about club activities.  At least we would know what each other's real names were when we do go to meetings and other events.

[Greatwhite]

I have few recommendations;

-let non members have minimum 5 free classified postings a year, general hobbyists do not need to sell stuff more often than that in a year.

-let basement/home business sw or fw be a sponsor as long they are a registered business from around here, otherwise you are doing what babelfish with help of hiswife/Pat/Trina then exec did to us 7 years ago when we wanted tobe sponsors, brought back memories.

-organize more frequent workshops, meets etc, you dont need big guys, just hearing basics from everyday hobbyists help as we forget stuff all the time. you cant get discouraged if attendance was bad one time, you have to keep doing it.

-if you have someone looking to volunteer let him, if one exec holds two positions you would barely keep up, there will be no progress.

-add a clause in exec contract that when they get elected they need to hold the post for the duration, if its health reason sure, if not its unfair that you leave in the middle beacuse you didnt get along with someone or you got busy etc.


little changes nothing big or drastic needed.

Well played, sir.

I'd also suggest (without knowing how the classified ACTUALLY work) a Post Approval step before the post is actually displayed. 

I know other classifieds systems have a delay from the time you submit the ad to the time it's visible so that *someone* can quickly preview the ad and approve it.  This would surely cut down on duplicate posts and it probably takes less time to approve an ad than to remove lots of dupes. 

Note; Even with classifieds restricted to just members, I still see duplicate posts...

[Fishnut]

I have few recommendations;

-let non members have minimum 5 free classified postings a year, general hobbyists do not need to sell stuff more often than that in a year.

That's a good idea but I have a feeling our software would require someone to manually keep track of how many ads everyone has posted and delete the excess ads.  We won't subject anyone to that amount of work as a volunteer.  I'll as our webmistress if there's an automatic function that prevents more than 5 ads per non-member.

-let basement/home business sw or fw be a sponsor as long they are a registered business from around here, otherwise you are doing what babelfish with help of hiswife/Pat/Trina then exec did to us 7 years ago when we wanted tobe sponsors, brought back memories.

We actually discussed this last night and have voted in new sponsor criteria.  Someone will get to posting it soon and you'll get a PM about it.  I think you'll like what we did!

-organize more frequent workshops, meets etc, you dont need big guys, just hearing basics from everyday hobbyists help as we forget stuff all the time. you cant get discouraged if attendance was bad one time, you have to keep doing it.

We don't have the time to do it as an exec and we lack the volunteers.  These have also been poorly attended for quite a long time.  I'm open to it but it needs to be tweaked.

-if you have someone looking to volunteer let him, if one exec holds two positions you would barely keep up, there will be no progress.

-add a clause in exec contract that when they get elected they need to hold the post for the duration, if its health reason sure, if not its unfair that you leave in the middle beacuse you didnt get along with someone or you got busy etc.

Agreed!!  Unfortunately, we just don't have enough people stepping up to volunteer.  As much as I would like to make people stay for the duration of their term, we can't.  It's voluntary.  If people get upset with someone else or they get too busy, they just stop showing up, then quit.  It sucks and I hate it but we make do.

YIPPEEEEE!!!!  Thanks for the constructive, well thought suggestions!!!!

[Fishnut]

Well played, sir.

I'd also suggest (without knowing how the classified ACTUALLY work) a Post Approval step before the post is actually displayed. 

I know other classifieds systems have a delay from the time you submit the ad to the time it's visible so that *someone* can quickly preview the ad and approve it.  This would surely cut down on duplicate posts and it probably takes less time to approve an ad than to remove lots of dupes. 

Note; Even with classifieds restricted to just members, I still see duplicate posts...

Excelent!!  This is also a good suggestion which is worth bringing to the webmistress and mod team.

[76brian]

because some hot headed noob or semi-noob who hides behind a computer, thinks he knows it all.

...and who is that directed at?

[Greatwhite]

...and who is that directed at?

Emotions have run a little high in this thread, with some pretty personal attacks against "the execs"... I'm sure that there wasn't any ONE person this was directed at, just a general comment that may have been written quickly...

That or she's talking about me.  Yes, I am so vane that I think this thread is about me.

[JetJumper]

Its funny that now you say sign up to be a mod....

I personally have volunteered on MORE then one occation however have always been turned down because I didn't pay into the club.  Thats fine with me if you want to keep it like that... but don't say I didn't try!

[76brian]

Emotions have run a little high in this thread, with some pretty personal attacks against "the execs"... I'm sure that there wasn't any ONE person this was directed at, just a general comment that may have been written quickly...

That or she's talking about me.  Yes, I am so vane that I think this thread is about me.

Nothing to do with being vain, I posted admitting I was relatively new, and have not been out to many events, but still offered an opinion. I did not make any personal attacks, just valid points (which were mostly ignored).

Either way, a club exec bashing newbies isn't a good way to convince the newbies to get involved.

[Greatwhite]

Nothing to do with being vain, I posted admitting I was relatively new, and have not been out to many events, but still offered an opinion. I did not make any personal attacks, just valid points (which were mostly ignored).

Either way, a club exec bashing newbies isn't a good way to convince the newbies to get involved.

Not sure how/why you think the comment was directed at you, or why you seem to be taking offense to it.  I just read Fishnut's post, and she just said that experienced people seem to have decided to stop being helpful because "hotheaded noobs or semi-noobs think they know it all".  It really doesn't appear to have anything to do with your comments at all - or even anything to do with your post. (it was in response to Feivel's post)

I am saying that *I* am a hotheaded semi-noob who knows it all. 

[Darth]

it could have been directed at anyone, especially myself who admitted I prefer to do things from my PC, its funny because if that was said about the execs I am sure a ban would have been in effect, and I suggested many times, why do meetings have to be held to discuss things a chat room can easily be set up to accommodate those who cannot physically go to meetings, lets move to the 21st century the idea of getting in your car or whatever is getting old, its time to move with the times, unless something needs to be physically set up, or demo'd or whatever there is no need for physical meetings

[Cheebs]

All drama aside, if you want to keep it fresh and keep the youth interested, the website, social media, etc are the key. The site may be separate from the club or whatever, but it's what's going to make or break it.

[delslo]

why don't we start having tank setup meetings? Have a spot where someone new is setting up a new tank, people can go over experienced or not to help give suggestions, bring extra stuff to help new people set up their tank properly, plus it would be a good learning experience as one person may know something that you or I don't. Just a thought.

[Stussi613]

Darth,

With all due respect, this forum is an extension of a club...it's not a standalone entity.

The comments about noobs and people that sit behind their computers wasn't intended to single anyone out, it's just that people seem to be easy to criticize the exec for making decisions based on the mandate of the club when they aren't actively involved in the club.  

I unlocked this thread to give people a chance to voice their concerns, but I'm getting pretty close to locking it again.  These types of gripe sessions aren't going to accomplish anything...and new users are reading them and wondering if they should bother staying here.

We get lots of people who sign up, try to sell something, realize they can't and then stop coming. That's going to happen. But I'm more concerned about members like Brian who sign up, contribute to the forum with some truly new and interesting builds, come out to a meeting, join the club and then feel like they aren't welcome because of threads like this.

Everyone is welcome on OVAS, member or not.  As long as people follow the rules they can post as much, or as little as they want.  Attend meetings, or not.  What we don't want, or need, are quarterly griping sessions about things that aren't going to be changed by this years exec.

We needed to boost membership and we did that - from roughly 50 members last year to over 170 as of yesterday.

We invested personal time and effort to attend events like the Pet Expo, setting up multiple tanks and generating new members and letting some old members know we are still here. We changed the meetings to make it easier for ANYONE to come out and sell items by instituting a swap meet style format with no fees to OVAS for members and non-members. We put together a more social meeting structure with a dinner event for the holiday season meeting in December for those that didn't want to come and listen to a speaker and sit through a PowerPoint.  We are planning a 2 day event with a full line up of speakers and vendors (including some really big ones like SeaChem) that is being provided to everyone free of charge in March.  All this, and more, we've done for OVAS members and non members alike.  I hate to be "one of those" execs...but do you know what we get for all that effort and time volunteering to make OVAS better for everyone?

A thread where people complain about the classifieds being closed by last years exec.

A thread where people question the current exec and the decisions they are making that affect people on the forum.

I used to wonder why people would volunteer for the OVAS exec and serve a single term, or half a term, and then quit. Now I know exactly why they do.

Against my better judgement I'm leaving this thread running, but if it continues the way it has been going I'm going to lock it again.

Stuart

[Fishnut]

...and who is that directed at?

Nobody in particular.  Why?

[fish]

Darth,

With all due respect, this forum is an extension of a club...it's not a standalone entity.


Stuart

That totally explains it for me. I want a forum to share experiences in. I'm not even remotely interested in being part of a club. Sorry if my comments were off the mark as a result.

[Stussi613]

That totally explains it for me. I want a forum to share experiences in. I'm not even remotely interested in being part of a club. Sorry if my comments were off the mark as a result.

You have a forum to share experiences in, but as a club we can't de-couple the forum into its own entity.  Nobody is saying you have to join the club to use the forum, you just can't post in the classifieds as a non-member and have to abide by the rules you agreed to when you signed up. You are more than welcome at OVAS, as is everyone who follows the rules.