Marine Ich

[bonuf016]

I woke up one morning to look at my fish, and upon closer inspection I realized that some of my fish had little white spots on them. At first I thought, no biggie, I'll just go buy some reef safe medication and be done with it. However, after doing some extensive research I realized that reef safe medication at best works 50% of the time with some people claiming that it never actually works because the ich will most likely come back. I quickly realized that if I was to treat the fish I would have to quarantine all of them and treat them in a separate tank. I did not want to use copper medication because I was uncomfortable with the notion that if I used too little it would not work and If I used too much it would kill my fish. So, I decided that the best thing I could do would be to treat them with hyposalinity and wait for the tank to cycle out all of its marine ich. Has anybody used this method? Did you succeed in riding your tank and fish of Marine ich?

-Baz

[heater15]

I'm still pretty new at this but i had ich as well and ray and az helped me by telling me about a garlic additive that you soak they re food in and within 2 days no more ich. So now i soak they re food in the solution to boost they re health and seems to be working.Hope this helps you somewhat

[Vincenzo.]

thats why its important to QT your fish. toss in some cleaner shrimp. or use med's and pray for the best.

[kole18]

heater , thats what i also do soak with kent garlic whenever i feed my fish. but i also recomended to have a QT. R/O units also helps to have a good quality of water.

[Hookup]

Someone should bottle up that Garlic trick.. if it can cure ick, and is reef safe, they are an instant multi-millionaire.

[bonuf016]

I though about doing that but then I read this article from a scientist who has studied marine ich: http://www.reefsanctuary.com/forums/fish-diseases-treatments/23132-marine-ich-myths-facts.html

It seems like garlic additive is just a temporary band-aid and has no effect on the root of the problem. It may seem like the ich is gone when really it is just not visible. Anyways its a good read. I just wanted to know if anyone has used hyposalinity to cure ich. I'd love to know how well worked.

-Baz

[ramblnpony]

Excellent article Baz, thanks for sharing. Ditto Vince, on the importance/necessity of always quarentining everthing before adding to the display tank.

[Hookup]

I though about doing that but then I read this article from a scientist who has studied marine ich: http://www.reefsanctuary.com/forums/fish-diseases-treatments/23132-marine-ich-myths-facts.html

It seems like garlic additive is just a temporary band-aid and has no effect on the root of the problem. It may seem like the ich is gone when really it is just not visible. Anyways its a good read. I just wanted to know if anyone has used hyposalinity to cure ich. I'd love to know how well worked.

-Baz

Hey Baz,
I've read that article and several just like it.  All studies say that at best, garlic triggers at food response and get's a fish eating.  Of course if a fish isn't eating it's going to die, so there's appears to be no negative.  However, there is absolutely no evidence that I've read on garlic having any medicinal properties. 

Hypo-salinity is very difficult to achieve.  I've been researching the effectiveness of refractometers lately due to a conversation I had with Claude S. at faunamarin.de who was arguing that refractometers are not accurate and "us North Americans" need to stop trying to use density as a measure of salinity and use salinity as a measure of salinity...

For Hypo-salinity to work, you must keep your salinity between 1.009 and 1.010 for 8 weeks.  To do this, you'll need a tool that is calibrated and accurate at that level.  If you're off even a little, 1.012, they its very possible that the ICK remains. 

When you combine that with the size/volume used for most QT tanks, dealing with evaporation alone could be a twice a day or more requirement just to keep things balanced.  For 8 weeks! 


As for QT'ing everything coming into your tank, this has some practical limitations.  ICK can be introduced on anything that you put into your system.  Corals, Rocks, Snails, Shrimp, etc, etc, etc... Many of those things cannot be treated with copper, and must therefore be kept in isolation for 8 weeks.  If there are no fish in with the "thing" for 8 weeks, the ick cannot find a host and dies.

I think, QT'ing fish for a week and treating with copper is a good preventative.  Ensures they are eating, and gives them a head-start before entering your system.  Doing a coral dip, or three is also a good idea, IMO.  Too many baddies can come in on coral.

BTW, I do not QT anything.  I temp acclimate, rip some small holes in the bag, leave for a few hours, dump... if its a coral, I temp acclimate for 20min, dump it into my tank...   Just so you know I'm not even following my own advise.

Tim

[bonuf016]

Hey Tim,

Thanks for the advice. So if hyposalinity is pretty hard to achieve, What would you recommend? Do you think I should try copper in the QT?

-Baz

[redbelly]

In order to treat with copper youmust have a good copper test kit as you must maintain the copper levels pretty closely. If the copper is not strong enough then it will have no effect. And prolonged exposure to copper isnt good for the fish either.

Although garlic doesnt have any medical properties as Hookup has indicated, if it gets the fish eating better then I would try this first.

Personally, if I ever seen ich I use the Fauna Marin Health Food. Contain natural ingredients to boost up the fishes immune system and it has always cleared up the ich for me.

What fish though exactly has ich on it?

And what are your parameters?

[Hookup]

Hey Tim,

Thanks for the advice. So if hyposalinity is pretty hard to achieve, What would you recommend? Do you think I should try copper in the QT?

-Baz

What I recommend is feed quality foods (I know how that sounds, but not all food is created equal) and maintain your system. 

Every fish in my system has had ick.  I just added two last night, and I'm 100% sure within the week they will show signs of ICK... Every other fish has...   Over the next 3 weeks, they will get over it or die.  To date, I've never lost a fish to ICK.  They all get over it.

As Redbelly suggests, the faunamarin foods (Health & Energy mixes) are excellent.  I feed those, as well as frozen cubes of mysis, cyclo, kryll and roti's.  I also feed some nori on a regular basis (every other day to every day).

I keep my params in check, no temp swings (0.5/day), ph swings (0.05/day shift) or salinity swings (0.001ppt increase / day due to evap)... and the fish just get over it...  Nitrate, Nitrite are undecidable as well.

Likely you're already keeping your system params in a good stable spot. (Which is the most critical btw) so adding good foods will finish the job.

Cheers,
Tim

[bluepointer]

I've tried hyposalinity and it does work. It just requires a a lot of effort (as people has said above). I've also read a number of times of people leaving the fish to fend for themselves and this may appear to work. However, the ich is never gone, never dormant. It just may not be as obvious, it is still affecting all the fish in more sensitive areas like along the gills. Even increased water changes/ UV steriliation will help, but not get rid of the problem. While people say, they have built up a defence, they are basically in a continual battle, and should anything (i.e. water parameters) ever faulter for some reason, you could lose your tank. This is especially true with more sensitive species. Not to sound all doom and gloom, but I used to work in a fish health lab (aquaculture) and this was something we had to deal with. One thing I have realized since getting into this hobby, is that EVERYONE gets into thier own groove and will decide on what they figure is best, so do a lot of reading, and see what fits with your own capabilities and patience.

My personal recommendation is to give it a shot, since you will need to leave your display tank for 2 months to fallow anyway (or else the ich will just be back as soon as you put fish in it) the fish will have to be kept elsewhere anyway. If you decide it is too much work, I'd be keen to find out what you did try and how successful it was! Good luck!

[Hookup]

Bluepointer, you maybe correct in general, but there are studies that clearly show a fish can build up an immunity to ICK, a particular strain of ick to be exact.  Therefore it does not continue to cause grief to your fish.  Assuming that immunity is achieved.  IT's hard to say if a fish is just dealing with it, or immune to it, i'll admit.

Personally, i'm going with immnune... My tank crashed about 2months ago... no massive outbreak of ICK, no fish loss, no signs of ICK at all in fact.   Maybe i'm just lucky though.

[Vincenzo.]

i think ray told me once, ick is in 1g out of every 6g or 8g in ocean water. so it's inevitable.

[bongo]

I'm curious to know if some of us did QT all their stock and have been successfull in not having ich at all in their DT

[Julie]

I've had one case of ick in the dt (without qt.)
I don't add the water from the bag and I do a drip on all new fish.
Is your tank newly set up?

[bongo]

yes and I'm trying to get rid of ich by having the DT be fallow for 8 weeks and treating the fish with copper in a QT

I guess in curious to know if people have been successful since it's very difficult to restrain myself from putting fish in the DT for 8 weeks

but then again there's no way I'm going to catch all the fish in the DT again... having to move all the rocks is PITA