Executive matters -split from- order from armkes.com

[Evan]

I would also be against funding orders.  Using the money to promote meetings and the library would be my choice.

I do have a membership, I just have not shown up to any of the meetings.

[ambushman2j]

I am sure you will end up turning a profit from breeding these fish then selling them off to other members, auctions and even stores..

This should be in different thread, but ...
Even if you will be succesfull in breeding, it does not mean that you will have profit. When you are able to cover your expenses, it is already great.

If you do it right you can easily make a little extra money breeding fish, but yeah, most people are content with covering expenses..the more people who keep the fish you are breeding the better chance you will cover your expenses quicker and perhaps make a little bit too..and I am not sure why you don't think this has anything to do with this thread, it has everything to do with this thread, this thread is about $$$, if you intend on selling your fish to other people in the club or at auctions your at least trying to make some of your money back if not make a profit, therefore it doesn't seem right for the club to subsidize someone making a profit..  these are all just individual opinions, what actually happens is upto executive commitie, I don't think it's right, these are the reasons I don't think it's right, if other people don't think I am right, then that's their opinion too.

[Sue]

"Many breeders clubs, such as bird clubs, have executives or longer term members buy a few extra pairs if they are making an order or special trip somewhere. Something like a few Africans and a few Angel/Discuss which are then included in the auction. This does not have to cost a lot and provides some excitement at the auction"

I don't agree with ovas subsidizing people's mail orders, as there would be just too many issues, and would not have guarenteed direct benifit to the club.  The idea above by Greg, is a bit diffferent.  I think it would be ok, if on a very small scale, and if timing were such that a club auction was coming up, and the club had a decent chance of breaking even or at worst taking a SMALL loss.

[gvv]

... if you intend on selling your fish to other people in the club or at auctions your at least trying to make some of your money back if not make a profit...

About profit:
Believe me :wink: , if you really want to make profit you should sell not just to the club members, you need to have a lo-o-o-t more customers. And you don't need to have a lot of different fishes :!: , but you should be good with only one!
I don't want to continue this discussion, as if you are to make profit you should become a (re)seller, but not to sell for minimum price your good quality fish to the members of your community.

About on-line orders:
Is it really so necessary to make purchases through the OVAS? In my opinion OVAS site already gave us a great opportunity to get together and spend less money when making group orders.So, it is time to get together and make an order   ...

Regards

[BigDaddy]

I'm not a member yet... but I'd have to say I wouldn't agree with it.

I keep South American cichlids, and mostly dwarfs at that.  That puts me in the good minority when it comes to what people are keeping in the way of freshwater fish (never mind the marine community).

How would I feel if there was an OVAS-supported order from Quebec Cichlides, the CRLCA, and then say Below Water or Apistogramma Idiots?  I'd feel like I was getting the short end of the stick with my interest only being addressed 1 in 3 times, compared to 2 out of 3 for everyone else.

OVAS is, in part, about promoting fish keeping in the area.  I don't really think it is part of OVAS mandate to provide some financial incentives to get people to keep fish, which is essentially what a subsidized group order is.

[ambushman2j]

Well, to me there's several stages..you have losing money on the fish, your expenses of the initial investment and supplies are greater then what you bring in from selling fry.  

You have breaking even, roughly you made back what you put in from fish and supplies.

You have turning a small profit good enough to buy new equiptment but not enough to actually quit your day job to do.
(which is what I do)  all the money I make selling my fry I put back into buying new filters, or tanks...patio stones..heh

and then there's making a big profit, re-selling which you suggested..this is something you need to do on a full time basis, you need alot of tanks, alot of turn around..  this is not what I am trying to do at all, that's not the challenge for me.

[Anubias]

If we wish to inject a little excitement into the auctions, maybe the Club should consider sponsoring a member to go to Singapore to negociate the purchase of some uncommon plants and fish that we don't often see around here.

Regards,

[artw]

hehe.

[maitre007]

Nothing like a good old controversy to promote the club.   And we didn`t even have to spend one dollar to create this cyberspace event.

I think we should take down the name of all those individuals who asserts that ovas would be wiser to spend the funds on the library.  Maybe we will find our numerous missing $100 books at their places.

OVAS does not offer discount at pet stores.  Pet stores offer discount to be associatied with OVAS.

OVAS paid for the gas for the car pools to the montreal auctions.  Not all the members went but people didn`t cry a river like some have over this proposition.

Just look at the discussion board.  Pool ordering is one of the most commonly discussed subject.   So why shouldn`t the club have the foresight and promote what members are trying to accomplish.

Because no other clubs does it is the sorriest excuse that I have ever heard.   That's what innovation is.   I guess if all the other clubs would jump off a bridge then we should too.

Bunch of girlie man as Arnold would say.

I

[maitre007]

snap.  I accidently press quick reply before finishing my diatribe.

I don`t get this well where will it stop if ovas funds an order from armkes.  Well if I had it my way, it wouldn`t.  I think that it would be sound p.r. stunt to do an order every month that would generate buzz for the club.

You can talk all the smack about the discount at pet stores but if the pet stores were so apt to satisfy the needs of the members of ovas, why is there someone trying to pool an order every couple of weeks.

Membership dues barely pays for the rental of the rooms for the meeting.  The biggest source of revenue for the club, the gravy, is the giant auction in march.   I will still push for to pass this resolution because I didn`t not volunteer all day for the past two giant auctions to have people from the pennut gallery play arm chair executive.

Would I receive a direct benefit from the armkes order?  For sure.  However I would still support the motion if it had been proposed for the apistos (which i would not partake) because I do sincerely believed in enriching the diversity of the fish among the members of ovas.

This is not about me saving a few bucks on an order.  This about my vision of where the club should be going.  Accross the america, membership to aquarium clubs have withered away.
With all the discussion board and thus the information available on the internet, a lot of people do not see the necessity of joining an aquarium club.  

Aquarium clubs need to re-invent themselves and positioning itself as a facilitator of mail-order is a good initiative.

[Nelson]

Nothing like a good old controversy to promote the club.   And we didn`t even have to spend one dollar to create this cyberspace event.

I think we should take down the name of all those individuals who asserts that ovas would be wiser to spend the funds on the library.  Maybe we will find our numerous missing $100 books at their places.

OVAS does not offer discount at pet stores.  Pet stores offer discount to be associatied with OVAS.

OVAS paid for the gas for the car pools to the montreal auctions.  Not all the members went but people didn`t cry a river like some have over this proposition.

Just look at the discussion board.  Pool ordering is one of the most commonly discussed subject.   So why shouldn`t the club have the foresight and promote what members are trying to accomplish.

Because no other clubs does it is the sorriest excuse that I have ever heard.   That's what innovation is.   I guess if all the other clubs would jump off a bridge then we should too.

Bunch of girlie man as Arnold would say.

I

...and possibly if it had been public knowledge that OVAS paid for gas you may have been knee deep in that river!!

[maitre007]

It was public knowledge.

And why would we have been knee deep in river.  It is not  a breach of the by-laws nor the constitution?

[Marc]

Bunch of girlie man as Arnold would say.

Careful, people are allowed to have different opinions.  While this one is obviously an attempt at humour one more step in that direction would not be a good thing.

I think we should take down the name of all those individuals who asserts that ovas would be wiser to spend the funds on the library. Maybe we will find our numerous missing $100 books at their places.

Don't insinuate that people want library books because they want to steal them.

I will still push for to pass this resolution because I didn`t not volunteer all day for the past two giant auctions to have people from the pennut gallery play arm chair executive.

Being a volunteer and/or being on the executive does not give you more rights than other members.  Everyone is allowed their opinion.  All you need to do is to convince, in a respectful manner, enough people that this is a good idea.


(Edit:  Changed "non-members" to "other members")

[Marc]

...and possibly if it had been public knowledge that OVAS paid for gas you may have been knee deep in that river!!

This event and the fact that gas expenses for car-poolers would be reimbursed was public knowledge.  The club sponsors a trip to the Montreal auction every year.

(This event was announced at one, and probably two club meetings.)

[Marc]

I think that it would be sound p.r. stunt to do an order every month that would generate buzz for the club.

Done in this way, and if various vendors were used this might be a workable idea, assuming the club can afford it.  It would be important that different kinds of fish and/or plant purchases be made available through this program.

Of course, we would also need someone to run the program.

[Nelson]

...and possibly if it had been public knowledge that OVAS paid for gas you may have been knee deep in that river!!

This event and the fact that gas expenses for car-poolers would be reimbursed was public knowledge.  The club sponsors a trip to the Montreal auction every year.

(This event was announced at one, and probably two club meetings.)

Thanks for bringing that to my attention Marc, I was not aware. As my last post on this subject, let me go on record again as being against club subsidies in any form.  Club funds should be dispursed to publicly promote OVAS, promote interest in the hobby and to sustain the organization.  This is to the benefit of ALL members.

[Marc]

Club funds should be dispursed to publicly promote OVAS, promote interest in the hobby and to sustain the organization.  This is to the benefit of ALL members.

I completely agree with the above statement.  However the means for achieving these goals is where we may differ in our opinions.

To promote interest in the hobby, and in OVAS, the club has often organized and/or sponsored activities such as the road trip to Montreal for their giant auction.

I believe club organize/sponsored activities should be of interest to as many people in the club as possible and should be things that all members can participate in.  But there are always members who choose not to participate.

The OVAS presence at the Montreal giant auction is returned by a large presence of Société d'Aquirophilie de Montréal (SAM) members  at our giant auction.  This benefits the club both fiscally and throughdiversification of the fish and plants available to us here in Ottawa.

Other traditional OVAS activities such as the Christmas party and the end-of-season Summer BBQ help keep people interested in OVAS.  Unfortunately many members choose not to attend.  They miss out on a great opportunity to learn about the hobby in a relaxed and informal atmosphere.

As far as promoting OVAS, most forms of advertising are quite costly and beyond our budget.  Posters in fish stores would be useful but most fish stores don't allow them.

We're always open to suggestions for new activities or ways to reach the above goals, and of course we're always looking for volunteers to help us work at achieving them.

[Nelson]

Understood and accepted, thanks Marc

[Marc]

As far as sponsoring mail-order fish and plants purchases I think that the main advantages are the diversification of species available to us and the interest it raises in the hobby.

Personnally I would not support sponsoring a one-time purchase or "on-request" purchases as it doesn't meet the goal of being for all members.

On the other hand sponsoring one purchase a month from different vendors submitted to OVAS  (a different vendor each month) would make a large number of types of fish available to members and may make this type of activity something that can potentially be for all members.   I can imagine the budget for something like this to be no more than some $40 per month that would be used to help pay shipping and handling. However if we found that it was always the same 3 or 4 people participating we would have to discontinue this program.

I really haven't made a final decision on this matter.  If I were asked to vote yes or no on this at an executive meeting I don't know what I'd vote.

[Sue]

"Because no other clubs does it is the sorriest excuse that I have ever heard"

maitre, you missed in my earlier post that another 'club' already did have the idea to invent itself as a co-op  buying group. (the CRCLA).  Other buisness made sure that CRCLA found out pretty fast, they would have to become a legit buisness in order to run their imports.  

The OVAS car pool fund to montreal is not to subsidize people buying stuff there, and we have nothing to do with how people arrange to pay for what they buy.  They don't have to buy anything at all.  Its to encourage people to get together and go as a group on a club outing, and to suport a sister club's event.

In a sense the OVAS web forum is already suporting people getting together to pool their orders.  How much they spend, (shiping is part of what things cost), and how they arange to pay the vender, and potential risks, is thier own buisness.