30 gal tetra tank to African Cichlids or The Newb Cichlid Thread

[groan]

OK, so I want to make the move since my tank has all the rocks in place and I need a change.

I am going to take in all my tetras in to BA's, possibly this weekend, BUT, I have a couple pleco's (for the life of me I cant remember the name of them, they only grow about 5 inches long) that i'd love to keep in the tank, but I;'ve been reading that they are tolerant to PH7 or 7.5. Is that right?
I also have many cherry shrimp and a few amano's will they be OK? I realize they may end up as expenmsive fish food, but I dont think I'll ahve much luck getting them all out, but I'll try if they wont survive the PH change.

As for the process,I was told by someone at BA's (cant remember name) that i should do a couple of 75% water changes to basically replace all the 7.5 water in there and replace it with water conditioned to 8.
let it sit for a couple days before introducing fish.

I'll be using the same filter system and substrate so the biology will remain intact.

Any thoughts?
I'd love to get some of the more colorful fish, but I have never kept cichlids. I'll do some reading on this forum and the Aquarius site to get as much as I can, but how many would you suggest and in what gender arrangement? 1-male with 3-4 females? All males? I just dont know but I do knwo I want them as a show tank, I'm not intrested at this point in breeding.

[Quatro]

If the plecos grow to about 5 inches then you may have bushy nose (bristle nose) plecos.  There are may others, but that one is probably the most common.  Your cherry shrimp will end up as expensive fish food.  I personally believe that 7.5 water will be fine for africans but some say the colors are better when you raise the pH and hardness.  Before bringing your tetras to BA's you could try to sell them here.

Mike S

[Laura]

Folks on the forum will also jump at your cherries and amanos if you want to get them out before they turn into fish food.

[groan]

cool, thanks for the suggestion.
I'll list what I have here when I'm ready.
How did ht rest of the post and questions sound?
Will the pleco be ok in a .5 higher tank if i decide to go up to 8? (i probably will do)

those cherries shre like to breed...nice since i only bought 5 and now have over 20

[darkdep]

Most Africans will do fine in 7.5 water.  Domestic raised ones are incredibly adaptable to water conditions.  You also don't need to remove any water; you can just add baking soda to the water to raise the pH (although I stress that messing with your water params is tricky unless you know what you're doing, and since it's not necessary for the fish you're looking at, I'd suggest you get the fish and get comfortable before playing with the water).

Your shrimp will be eaten, quickly.  I would try to catch them and sell them on here.

Your plecos will be fine, especially if they are Bushynose as it sounds.  In fact, BN plecos are excellent cleanup crew for African tanks; I have them in almost all my tanks.

As for gender arrangement, it depends on the species.  Yes you can do an all male tank, but keep in mind that one of the incentives for many male cichlids to colour up is to impress the females; some fish simply won't display with no females in the tank.  Unless you're buying mature fish and the person you're buying from knows their stuff, you may not be able to control the genders you end up with anyway.  But if you can, try for 1 male to 2 females if you're going for a show tank as a general guideline.  If you're getting any particularly aggressive species, 1m to 3-4f would be better.

Any species in mind at this point?

[groan]

Thanks DD,
That sounds great. I may set up my 10 GAL and keep some of the shrimp. they're so cute.

As for ideas of what to get, not a clue. This is my first foray into it.
I dont know any names ut i've seen some very nice looking ones at BA's.
I'll see if I can locate some pics of what I am looking at but just describing them, I saw one very bright yellow and one wiht deep blue and light blue stripes that appealed to me.
I'm sorry this sounds so newbish...I like that one! it's pretty! Sounds like a 16 year old going out to get thier first car...lol

Now that I know that making the swiitch isnt going to be that difficult I'll do some more research.

Any suggestions? (with links to pics perhaps) I am open to anything at this point. I really dont know one way or the other to go aggro or not. so I need guidance there.
What i'd like to know is can you mix species like you see in the fish stores? Of course I would not put as many as yousee in a fish store. I still am not sure how many fish total i could put in this size of a tank. but as you said, it depends on if i am going aggro or not.

sorry to be so unhelpful.
sigh.

[darkdep]

No worries, glad to help. 

Africans come in a large number of species, some of which look very similar (i.e the "blue with stripes" complex).  I would stay away from anything highly aggressive at the start; even "peaceful" africans may surprise you at their aggressiveness compared to Tetras

The bright yellow one was likely a Yellow Lab, a fairly common African that is perfect for new tanks.  They are peaceful, colourful, and hardy.  Almost any blue African of the same size will look great with the Yellow, and will get along.

Most Africans don't have common names (many do tho), because there are so many and they are still being defined in many cases.  Thus, the best way we can provide more info is for you to obtain the scientific names of the fish you're interested in.  A great resource for African profiles is here:  Cichlid Forum Profiles.

If you see a fish at an LFS you like, ask the staff for it's scientific name.  Tell them you need to research it.  Post it here and we can help with suggestions with regards to mixing and numbers.

Tips:  Never look at fish in the "Mixed African" tank that is common at many stores.  These fish are usually hybrids.  In the African world, hybrids are a Very Bad Thing.

Also, if the staff can't give you the scientific name I wouldn't buy the fish anyway.  Some Africans are real murderers but may look very similar to a peaceful species.

[groan]

I see what you mean by the blue stripe
http://cichlid-forum.com/articles/african_cichlid_genus_gallery.php

Isee there are two regions (lakes) they come from. Are they mixable or should one stay with it's neighbours?

OK OK, I'll start reading the articles on the Cichlid site. Maybe what I need is some hand holding and have someone tell me what i want

I may go to the fish store and write down some names and snap some phone pictures.

thanks again. I'll be back.

[pegasus]

Tips:  Never look at fish in the "Mixed African" tank that is common at many stores.  These fish are usually hybrids.  In the African world, hybrids are a Very Bad Thing.

That's a very good tip but "Mixed Africans" does not mean that they all are hybrids. Often these are fish that the stores could not sell, because they are drab females or there was only one sor two pecimens in a tank. The tip is good because you will probably never gonna know for sure what you got.

BTW 30 gal is pretty small for Africans and you will be limited in your choice.

[darkdep]

Yes, as you say Michel they are not always hybrids, they are often one-offs or unidentifiable ones.  There just isn't any goodness there

[groan]

Tahnks, I'll keep that in mind when I'm looking.

BTW 30 gal is pretty small for Africans and you will be limited in your choice.

I will also keep this in mind. I dont mind not having a bunch of fish in the tank, like I do now. I mainly want a few really nice looking fish.
I was under the assumption that the africans were the smaller type to get. I'f I'm wrong let me know. I know i will be restricted with what i willb e able to get and that too is OK. I dont have the means at this point to get a larger tank but i do want to get cichlids because of the showiness of them. I'm tired of keeping the drab colors of my tetras and want a bright colored tank without having to go salt water (which i did consider).

Thanks alot with for helping me with my venture.

[Demasonian]

see there are two regions (lakes) they come from. Are they mixable or should one stay with it's neighbours?

There's a diverse range of opinions here. In such a small tank, I'd be inclined to stick to one lake or the other, and one  genus/species within that lake.

For a 30 gallon you could do a Tanganyikan shelldweller setup, or have a pair of Tanganyikan rockdwellers (comressiceps, calvus, julies or the like). This would be an interesting setup, but not necessarily colourful.

If it's colour you want, you should seek out some dwarf mbuna. For this size tank, and given the fish colours you identified above, you may want to consider a Ps. Saulosi species tank. (http://www.cichlid-forum.com/profiles/species.php?id=1). Males are blue/black, females orangish yellow. They stay relatively small and have a decent disposition. A good example of a Saulosi species tank in a 30 gallon is here: http://www.cichlid-forum.com/tanks/ then do a search for saulosi and look at the tank by John Labbe.

Good luck!

[darkdep]

Africans come in all sizes.  Shelldwellers, for example, are quite small (most are about 2" full grown) whereas many MBuna are 6-7" full grown, and peacocks and others can be much larger.  I have 4 Protomelas Spilonotus that are over 8" now and look crowded in the 75gal tank they are in!

Also, don't worry about mixing the lakes.  Some people are purists and don't mix but it's not out of any technical reason; it's just for their own personal reasons.

[darkdep]

Saulosi is a great suggestion, BTW.

[groan]

http://www.cichlid-forum.com/tanks/displaytank.php?style=1&tank=2205

WOW! that is gorgeous and he has 16 fish in there!

I dont know if i could start with taht many fish, probably quite a cost there but I have a similar setup now, though i dont have the nice sandy bottom and my rocks are all lava.

Thanks for the inspiration and the blue and yellow look great.

The Tanganyikan may not be colorful but they sure are showy! I love the markings and the fin shapes...very nice looking fish! These too are now a consideration.

I see in one tank setup they are digging, should I invest in a bag of sandy substrate? I like the look of the uneven bottom so I want to put some in there. now I am using a small grained gravel.
Thaks for the suggestions. it's exactly what I need.

[Demasonian]

Substrate is personal preference, but for both the mbuna and the tangs, my own feeling is that sand would be the best choice, especially if you like the idea of terraforming fish. Mbuna and some of the shell dwellers are excellent diggers and landscapers.

If you opted for the saulosi route, you would only need one male, four females to start. They would very rapidly (re:6 months) grow themselves into a colony. If there's one thing you can count on with mbuna, it's their ability to reproduce.

If you go the tang route, you might consider a pair or trio of Lamprologus Ocellatus (Golds http://www.cichlid-forum.com/profiles/species.php?id=1753) and a pair of either one of the milder Julidichromis species (don't have any experience here - http://www.cichlid-forum.com/profiles/species.php?id=1532), Calvus (http://www.cichlid-forum.com/profiles/species.php?id=1578), or Compressiceps (http://www.cichlid-forum.com/profiles/species.php?id=1583).

With Africans, there's a lot to choose from, and many of them are available from the members of this forum along with some great advice!

[groan]

By shelldweller and rockdweller I am assuming you are referring to thier adult size. I see alot of teh neo's are 3.5 in or smaller...is that what you mean?

Thanks again for the suggestions ane I may consider buying from members, though i tend to be one of those guys that like to go one-stop-shopping...I may head to the lfs (BA's) for my new batch, unless i get someome to suggest otherwise. I guess if i am buying only the Saulosi and all from one member then that's not so bad, but I dont want to have to go to 3 different places to get my fish..it's just my way.

Alot of these fish read that they require very hard water. When I was at bA's last weekend i was told about a rock you can buy, coral?, that will help with PH and hardness...is that required?

[pegasus]

I breed all the africans mentioned above. I use all kind of substrate without any preference (I think my fish don't have a preference either) but the coral will help in keeping some hardness. I don't wory about my PH unless it would falls under 7.2.
It's more important that you start your tank with a consideration of the right specie, as for size and aggression level among their own specie or with others. IMO it's the habitat itself that makes a succesfull african tank. Have plenty of rocks/caves or shells and you should be fine.

[groan]

Thanks Pegasus. That's great info.

When I pick up my fish I'll be sure to grab a couple shells as well and a chunk of coral.
I have lots of rock already as I set up a plantless tank for my tetras and it is already perfect for cichlids.

As for selling off my fish, I don't know if i'll be able to do a come-to-my-place sale because we have a sick little guy at home and I want to avoid alot of traffic.

It may jsut be easier for me to bring everything to the shop...except for the shrimp...they havealready been spoken for!

[groan]

I was going to go find my image of my tank from an earlier thread but I guess attachments get cleared on a regular basis?

Here you can see what my tank has gone through...i'm pretty happy with it now except i dont have enough light in my opinion. it's a stock 1 bar fluro and i'd love to get it to 2 but at $200 a pop, fagetaboutit...it can wait.

http://www.aquahobby.com/board/viewtopic.php?t=22820&highlight=

[pegasus]

We are talking about crushed coral, the size of pebbles , not a piece of coral. It would not do any harm but it would be so out of place. 

[bitterman]

When I pick up my fish

Why not purchase your fish from Pegasus. He is breeding all the fish you mentioned (Will also be better quality fish and less $ then getting them from the LFS).

Depending on the type of filter you have you could put crushed coral (in a bag) in your filter.

Bruce

[RoxyDog]

Yay africans!  I have crushed coral in my filter, but I really don't think my fish care.  My ph is 7.4 I think?  That's the only thing I changed for them.  But then again, I'm not hoping they'll breed or anything!  And I also say to get your fish from Pegasus or soemone else on here, they are likely better quailty, and much cheaper!   

[groan]

Why not purchase your fish from Pegasus. He is breeding all the fish you mentioned (Will also be better quality fish and less $ then getting them from the LFS).

Depending on the type of filter you have you could put crushed coral (in a bag) in your filter.

Bruce

Oh ya! he did mention that...duh.

i'll send you a PM Peggy. (you dopnt mind if i call you peggy do you?)

as for the coral in the filter, i have a biowheel (cant remember the size, i think 50) so I suppose i could do a bag.

I think putting a shell in there would look out of place as well. I'd need a hollowed out piece of lava to fit in, and I could do that myself with the right piece.

[groan]

Here is the fish i currently have that I will be selling...

3 neon dwarf rainbow (2m 1f)
http://www.aquariumfish.net/images_01/neon_dwarf_rainbows_001_w640.jpg
5-6 danio (veil tail leopard and standard zebra)
http://www.jjphoto.dk/fish_archive/aquarium/danio_frankei.htm
4-5 lemon tetra
3 Chinese algae eater
3 emperor tetra
http://www.aquarium365.com/s148500.htm
3 oto (1 large and 2 small yet they are all same age)
1 skirted tetra (not doing so well...seems to be losing weight. had 2 others that went the same way with no explanation. the rest of the fish are very healthy and active)

All fish are healthy (with the one exception) and about 1.5-2 years old.
I'd prefer to get rid of them all at once. If I can't i may just take the lot to BA's. I can't have a bunch of people coming and going through the house at this point.
2 is ok, with the one person already intrested in the shrimp and whoever wants this lot.

Problem is, I really don't know what to ask for the lot. I would just give them away, but I want to replace them with the cichlids...so if someone wants to trade, i would but otherwise, what would you think would be a fair price to ask for this crowd?

[bitterman]

Why not bag them and bring them to next week OVAS meeting if there is an auction? Auction them off.

Bruce

[cory]

I would upgrade your filter to a fluval or eheim. Im a big fan on canister filters. Also multi-stage filters are better than a foam pad. All of us aren't as blessed like pegasus and bitterman with 8-9.0ph, crushed coral helps, but should not rely on that. Get your self a test kit, if you are worried. Its best to have one, just in case. My water is at 7.8ph and im happy and my fish are too i think. Also look into the fish you plan on getting and what you plan on feeding them. Diet can influence health. Malawi Bloat for example. Best of luck and feel free to post any question you might have.

[groan]

Thanks for the suggestion with the filter system. And I do have a test kit.

I have turned my biowheel into a multistage by butting floss in before the carbon filter and it does filter out alot before it gets to the carbon.
I will consider the canister type at a later time,a s it's more of a money issue with that in the equasion.

I have pretty much decided on teh saulosi and as suggested I'll start off with one male and 3 female and let them work themselves up from there. I guess with that in mind I should either get a fry cage or set up my 10 gallon tank? I've never raised fry tso if that were to happen i'll be sure to be back in a hurry!

Anyways, back to the batch of fish. I don't know how likely i'd be able to get them to a meeting, besides, i'm not officially a member and I probably wouldnt be at the meetings too often. I'm a dad of a 2.5er and he takes up most of my time...that and gaming (i'm a geek).
So I guess I'm back to the request of what do you think that batch would be worth? Should I just take the bags to the shop and be done with it? I know, have some cahones and make a decision.

I'll let this thread sit for a bit and then I'lldecide what I'm goign to do. Pegasus, I'll contact you about the saulosi and cost/where you live.
Who knows, maybe when I see your stock i may change my mind!

Type to you soon,

[cory]

When you see his stock you will go nuts. His house is intense. The first time i was there im sure Michel was looking for a bowl to put under my mouth to keep the drool off the floor.

As for the fry. If it happends, you have 2 weeks to get another tank and have it set up before you strip the female.
Best of luck!

[groan]

strip the female

that sounds terrible!
what exactly is stripping the female?

I'm looking forward to seeing what he has and talking to him. he sounds like he could really help me make up my mind, that's all ajumble now.

it will be easier to decide once I see the fish as well.

[darkdep]

You don't have to strip the female 

Getting Africans at the meeting can be hit or miss.  You will see things like Yellow Labs there quite often, but if you're looking for something in particular you should probably just hook up with a local breeder (like Pegasus).

[pegasus]

You are welcome to visit anytime, just pm me the day before. I'm free after work and most weekends. Yes it's crazy up here. I may have one or two tanks done by the books but all the rest are more establish as I need them to be.
Some of the crazy thing you can see are the tanks that I have not touch for over 3 to for years, just replacing the water lost to evaporation, the tanks with no heathers, the daily stripping (ok I prefer to bunch strip my females), the management of keeping certain species apart, of moving fry and juveniles, the DIY gadgets and the vicious dog that will greet you at the door.

After you've seen my place, you should visit the nice clean fish room of Steve000, DPatte or Sue and others (hey I never have time to visit   )

Now the only reason why someone would drool seeing those tanks would be because there  is always one or two in sight wherever you look in the house. Personally, I'm not satisfied, there is no place left in the fish room to put a lasyboy and to enjoy them.

[cory]

DarkDep! I like stripping my female. They like it

[groan]

lol 

What the heck is stripping a female!!!???

Thanks Pegasus. I'll do that. I dont suppose you take Big Al store credit? (kidding)
I'll probably bring in the fish this weekend unles I get some intrest. I dont know what to ask so I dont feel I can put an ad in the classifieds (no price).
I may contact you friday to arrange for the weekend.

Cheers!

[pegasus]

You don't need to buy any of my fish for a visit. I may even refuse a sale if I think it's wrong or will even tell you where you can get better price or quality.
When selling to LFS, I refuse credit notes or I double their price so I can sell the credit at 75% it's value.

[Quatro]

lol 

What the heck is stripping a female!!!???

When a mouth brooder breeds, the female holds the eggs in her mouth to protect them.  Stripping a female is prying their mouth open and shaking out the eggs and/or babies.

Mike S

[groan]

Thanks for the info Quatro!

And Pegasus, I was kidding about the store credit thing.

(corrected awkward typo)

[darkdep]

To further Quatro's explanation:

Stripping is a bit of an advanced procedure which has the goal of maximizing fry output from a breeding.  By getting the fry away from the female quicker than she would normally release them, you can get her eating again quicker (it's easier on her), and you don't need to seperate the female in another tank. 

It's NOT necessary; but is a technique used by some.  I do it sometimes, but other times I put the female by herself and let her spit when she's ready.  There are arguments for both ways.  One thing you get with the "natural" approach is you do get to see some interesting parental behaviour after she spits.

[groan]

Thanks DD and everyone
I guess if i get into Africans i should expect fry, so I want to be prepared.
Should I set up my 10 gal for this possability or are they ok with the other females/male and eventual other males? (is there such a thing as inbreeding causing bad broods with fish?)
OK, getting a little off topic here...well not really...

Anyways, i guess this thread should be labled 'All the questions a newb would ask about starting on cichlids'

[darkdep]

Fry are a good possibility, yes.  However if you're not interested in breeding specifically then just leave the female with the rest and let nature take it's course.  Cichlids are fantastic parents and watching this behaviour can be very rewarding.

[beowulf]

Interesting thread which helped me also as I am thinking of making a 20 long shell dweller tank.  I guess I'll have to contact Pegasus when the time comes for the fish !!

[groan]

Beowulf,
I guess I really should rename the thread!

All the questions a newb would ask about starting on cichlids'

[beowulf]

For Africans for sure.  The only Africans I have are a couple of kribs in my community tank.  I do have some South Americans like some firemouths and dwarf pikes.  Also in a 10 gallon I have some apisto Inca that I hope will breed.  Cannot wait to try out some "real" Africans in the form of shellies.

[pegasus]

Cannot wait to try out some "real" Africans in the form of shellies.

beowulf... Good choice for your 20 gal tank and to go from kribs to shellies.

[groan]

What are Shellies?

[darkdep]

Shellies = Shelldwellers

[groan]

sorry, i should have clarified...
What type of cichlids are shellies? (I knew of the term, just not sure what type are)

[darkdep]

A good reference on many shelldwellers is Here.

[beowulf]

A good reference on many shelldwellers is Here.

I also use that site for info.  Another one that I like is this one http://www.duboisi.com/forum/profiles_brevis.php

I have not made my mind up completely between brevis or ocellatus.

[darkdep]

Brevis bite.  Hard. 

[groan]

Well with keeping in the vein of brilliant colour I expect I will need to see the fishies before I can decide for cirtain.

Before walking into a shop/breeders I will consider these as possabilities and consider any others.


Saulosi http://www.cichlid-forum.com/profiles/species.php?id=1 Should I be concerned that it recommends a 55 GAL? I saw that 30 gal TOTM on the cichlid site that had 16 of there in it!
Yellow Labs http://www.cichlid-forum.com/profiles/species.php?id=713 This one recommends 40 gal and up...again should I be concerned?
Shelldwellers I would have to see some of these to pick the group. accordign to the link below I could do 3 pairs...but as I have read, they tend to be bottowm-mid fish. I suppose that's ok. I'm used to having lots of fishies swiming all over so it would just be an adjustment.

(This site says I could do a small community in a 30 gal...lots to choose from but none that have any punch colour)
http://www.cichlid-forum.com/articles/cookie_cutter_29g.php

Any thoughts

PS I jsut realized what type of Pleco I have...It's a Clown Pleco x2
http://badmanstropicalfish.com/profiles/profile80.html

[groan]

OK, Just an update...
i KNOW you have all told me to sell the fish here and to buy the fish here, but I'm too stuck on the whole convienience thing. It's been my way for ever and it's a hard habit to break.
I'll be bringing my current stock in to Big Al's this weekend to make the trade and to get some cichlids.
I just called the east end one and thy have no Saulosi so I'll be getting something else. I'm a little disappointed but i'm still open minded. and will consider everyting I have learned in this thread.
I am transferring the shrimp to my 10 gal tank for the person that has already claimed them.

If I can locate a breeder by this weekend that is closer to the east end of ottawa and has saulosi i'll make a visit, but if not I'll be heading over to BA's

If you are such a breeder PLEASE PM me soon...they are such a beautiful fish.

Otherwise I'll be sure to update this thread after my transformation.

Any last minute advise or if you are a BA employee/barfly can you make any suggestions based on what they have?

[repeej]

If you are going to buy Africans at Big Al's make sure you bring lots of $$$.  You will be shocked to see the prices compred to what you would pay a local breeder.

There are no $3 africans at BA.....heck you won't even find $5 africans.  Sometimes a little "inconvenience" pays off in the long run.  Find yourself 4-5 1-2" Yellow labs and 4-5" Afras and you'll be all set.  Darkdep can likely set you up with the Afras and yellow labs are always selling on here.  That way you'll get your typical Ikea color scheme and you will not have to cut into your child's college fund.

[groan]

Thanks repeej.
I know what you mean. I've PM'd DD and jsut waiting for a reply.

I'm like this whenever i get started on anyting. i get excited and at the same time impatient to get it going.
I'd have taken days off from work to do this if I could! 

[groan]

Just heard from Mr DD and I'm glad to say I'll be visiting him this weekend.
It is on the other side of the city but it's easy to get to so a big thanks to everyone who helped me with this!
You Rock!

[adam_ottawa]

You seem rather enthusiastic about restocking your tank, groan.

I would suggest that you take your time, find the breeders and plan the stocking of your tank.

Like jepeej said, stores are way too expensive with Malawi cichlids.  Demasonis, for example, are about $23 there whereas you can usually find some at local breeders for about $2-4 each.

When I set up my African tank this summer, I took three months acquiring what I needed, doing lots and lots and lots of research then finally searching for breeders.  Once I was finished, I really enjoyed the setup because I was very prepared for almost anything that could go wrong.  Plus I was able to provide the best home I could for these demanding fish.

Good luck with your quest and keep us posted!  Once you get Africans, you'll fall in love with them.  They have such personality!

[groan]

Thanks Adam,
I know i dive into things but ever since I decided to get cichlids I've been doing research (about a month now). it's only recently that i've been doing the final preps and getting the advice from you folks.

As i mentined in my previous post I will be visiting DarkDep this weekend and with his help I am sure I will bring back some wonderful fish.

I am glad I listened to you guys and decided to go see the breeder because of that fact that it would cost me 4 x as much to get what I want.

Once the fish are in and settled I'll post some pics!

[groan]

I took the fish in to BA's tonight. I had the opportunity to do it so I did.
Besides it gives me a chance to get the tank ready for the new inhabitants. With the credit I got some food and a PH buffer to bring it up to 7.8 ish.

I'll test the water this time tomorrow night. Right now it tested almost 7.
I know people said it shoudl be OK for the type I want to get but just to be safe and to make thier transition more comfortable.

By the way!
I know that CAE are very popular. I brought in 3 large ones (3 inches each or so) tonight at 8:30 so they should be there tomorrow morning! He told me he sells them for 1.99 each no matter what size. he may have been feeding me a line but ther eyou go.

I'm looking forward to my visit to DD's on saturday.

I did a redesign...I'll post a pic in a second.



[attachment deleted by admin]

[PaleoFishGirl]

By the way!
I know that CAE are very popular. I brought in 3 large ones (3 inches each or so) tonight at 8:30 so they should be there tomorrow morning! He told me he sells them for 1.99 each no matter what size. he may have been feeding me a line but ther eyou go.

He wasn't feeding you a line - people generally don't like CAE because they can be very aggressive. 

[groan]

AH.
well they were a great help in my tank. I had a horrendous case of black hair algae and they cleared it all up!
They weren't bad agains the other inhabitants. they mostly chased themselves.

[beowulf]

AH.
well they were a great help in my tank. I had a horrendous case of black hair algae and they cleared it all up!
They weren't bad agains the other inhabitants. they mostly chased themselves.

I think true SAE are better as they keep eating the algea all their lives and are not as agressive as the CAE which loses interest in algea as they get older.

[groan]

CRUD! i meant SAE!
The ones that BA's always has listed as White Flying Foxes but are actually SAE's.
Sorry folks....3 nice big ones there now.

[groan]

Mu visit to DarDep's today was a great success and he';s going to help me out wiht my lighting dillemna!

I spoke with him for about an hour gazing at his fish and tankwall. Great display and some beautifully loved fish in that house.

I came home with 3 yellow Labs and 4 Afras. I love them to bits! They are so much more fun to watch than the fish I had before. so much ennergy and the locve to swim around in the rocks. it's been a long time since i've had cichlids in the family (my dad kept them when i was much younger).

I'll post a cou;l epics but they are not great quality. my little digi has a short zoom and the digital zoom produces grainy images. anyways, here are a coupel shots...coming up as soon as i resize them a bit

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[groan]

i need more light...sorry for the flash, makes the fish look not-so-great. they really are a treat and the colors are fantastic.
The labs were born in August and the Afras were born in Feb.


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[groan]

DD's room is really impressive. If only my wife woudl let me have more than one tank. I can hardly juggle the multipe hobbies I have!



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[adam_ottawa]

Great choice in fish!  They contrast nicely against the colour of your rocks and substrate.

I'm sure you'll enjoy them very much.  While I don't have any Afras, I find the Yellow Labs are full of personality.  They even come greet me at the glass when I walk in the room.

[groan]

They are still very skittish except one. he comes out and watches me all the time. I even had to reach into the tank to grab something out and the littlest lab just sat there 5 inches away and watched me.

Oh and DD you'll be happy to know that the male afra that was showing his colours so nicely at you rpalce has started to set his status in the tank. his marks are showing nicely...very dark bars already so it seems he's feeling right at home.

[darkdep]

Excellent, good to hear.  He was definetly the boss in his growout tank.

Although, with Afras, there is always one to take the place of the boss.  I have another in that tank who has coloured up now and has taken the role of boss

[cory]

Awesome fish. Good choice.

[beowulf]

Hey Groan noticed you also have a thread on this tank over at aquahobby.com 

[groan]

Yes,
I had started a tank thread there a long time ago when i first set up my tank. I keep it updated whenever I make a change. That was the first site I found when i was doing research a couple years ago, before I saw the light that is OVAS.

[beowulf]

Yes,
I had started a tank thread there a long time ago when i first set up my tank. I keep it updated whenever I make a change. That was the first site I found when i was doing research a couple years ago, before I saw the light that is OVAS.

Same here, I still find it a useful site and I like to get ideas from the photo section.