70 gal Malawi tank, A Journal.

[groan]

OK!
New topic on the 70 gal malawi tank! I'm very excited!

I need input if you don't mind.
Here is what I have, and what i will be starting with.
HARDWARE:
70gal
2x Fluval 304's
a heater (not sure what type or how powerful, markings are gone but seems to be working)
substrate = Sahara Sand (I know, I should have gone to the hardware store...i'm an idiot, but it looks great!)

SOFTWARE: (hehe, fish)
3 Yellow Lab juvies (M/F, dunno yet)
4 Afra (I think 2 male, 2 female)
2 Clown Plecos (i think they are clowns...) I'll replace these with 2 BN's if i can get some at a decent price.
I am moving them from the 30 gal tonight!

I am looking for info and suggestions on additional fish to add. I would love some more open-water fish to take advantage of the large space I have also I know the afras and labs wont get very large.

I would love to get some Peacocks in there but am open to options.
I am not trying to stick to a colour scheme this time so i don't want to stay with blue or yellow so feel free to suggest others, but I do want bold colours, even will consider black and white spots or stripes.

Some options I am considering (only because I see they are available or will be from Pegasus and DD...(other breeders feel free to speak up!)

(From Pegasus) Stuartgranti, Red Empress, Lithobates, Maleri Sunshine, Crabro, moorii, Copadichromis mloto Midnight, Protomelas steveni Taiwan Reef, BN Pleco
(From DD) Otopharynx Lithobates "Zimbabwe"

If you see anything that should NOT be placed in this tank let me know or suggest something completely different. Consider this the OVAS Club Tank except i have to buy everything so keep the cost down!...hehe (I'll eventually join...I'VE JOINED!)

[Steve_2]

You can always go for a breeding trio of albino peacocks...That way you will avoid the yellows and blues which seem to be very hard to do with a Malawi tank. Im realizing with my own tank I've got too much of those colours as well. Also I would recommend the red empress. I just bought some and I love them. Ask Pegasus if he has any availlable. I didn't buy mine from him, but I have been to his place before to buy some C.Mooriis and he's got lots of amazing fish!

Good luck.

[groan]

I think going albino is the opposite of what i am looking to do. i want colour, not lack of it
I'm not agains getting more blue or yellow, but I would like a mix if possible.
I just dont want to get more of the same as what i already have (unless it's recommended due to the new size of the tank).

I've seen Red Emps at Darkdeps and they are beautiful!

anyone else have any ideas? I have time to dwwell on this so I'll update this thread as I gain new knowledge.

[darkdep]

Red Empresses are great fish.  Only problem is many grow up to be more blue than red.  A couple Lithobates are good but not too many (ideally you want to get a single male IMHO, but you need a while to see gender). 

Peacocks are AWESOME.  Any kind really.  They have a very different shape and are very colourful.  Keep an eye out for the Spencer Jack group order in the next bit, good peacocks there.

I won't have any Thick Skin (C44) ready for a while yet.  Good ones are crazy colourful.  My breeding male is one of my favourite fish.  We'll see how the juvies turn out. 

Moorii are great as well, but are blue.  They grow VERY slow, so look for a mature male or get some and wait...a long time.

[Steve_2]

I'd have to say that mooriis are one of my very favourite freshwater fish! And they have great personalities on top of that. I have a group of six in my 67g tank and I cant wait untuill they start breeding. They are all 3-5 inches right now and will soon need to be moved to a bigger tank...along with the livingstoniis.

[darkdep]

I know!  Moorii rock.  I have a colony of 8 now, and have had my first holding female for the past 3-4 days.  If she holds until Jan 8 she gets moved to an isolation tank...fingers crossed!

[groan]

Thanks for the suggestions DD...I don't mind slow growers, means I have something to look forward to for a long time though instant colour is nice, liek the labs and afrtas you sold me. they are doing great except they like to hide all the time. only come out when i feed them!

I'm hoping that will change in the new tank.

I'd love to get some peacocks. are they more of an open-water dweller?

Steve and DD, The mooriis look great. The forehead feature would make them a great 'feature' fish.

[darkdep]

Peacocks are drifters...yes, more open water.  Lithobates are open water as well. 

The Afras and Labs will come out if there are more fish in the tank..it will make them more secure.  Many people have that issue.

[groan]

hehe,
I just read this on the Cichlid forum site about Mooriis...
"Because of this fish's giant proportions, adults and even sub-adults should not be kept in aquariums less than 125 gallons in size. "

should I avoid them in a 70 gal? I am looking to put in maybe 8-10 more fish...does that sound unreasonable?
for example, maybe 4 moorii and 4-5 other (not definate on the mooriiyet, just an example

[darkdep]

Advice on Cichlids is funny, cause it generally only takes into account the maximum size of the fish.  Moorii grow so slow that you'll probably die before the fish are full grown.

Ok, I'm exaggerating...a little.

I've had my Moorii for almost, what, 3 years now, and the biggest is 4".

[babblefish1960]

You're supposed to feed them you silly.

[Steve_2]

I agree with DarkDep. Mine right now are 3-5" in length not including the tails and they seem quite comfortable in the 67g tank I have them in right now. Not to mention it is quite overpopulated right now since my fish are growing fast(Im not talking about the mooriis...but more the labs, the afras, the livingstoniis, and so on). Some people say Mooriis grow to 12" in lenght while others say 6-8". Assuming that 6-8" is more accurate than 12"...I don't see why 4-8 of them could not be kept in a 70g with adequate filtration. Also...as DD already mentioned...it'll be a LONG time before they get big. Why don't you start out with a group of about 8 juvenils? In my tank...the mooriis come from two different breeders. One of which is Pegasus...and you can EASILY tell which 3 of the group come from him....they are much nicer than the 3 others. They are metalic blue with some darker blotches on their bodies. My dominant male is solid metalic blue though.

[groan]

good!
I look forward to getting some in my tank!

Maybe I'll get 5 juvies and 5 juvies of a peacock and when they get too large I'll sell off a few.
Does that sound valid?
That way I can do all my shopping at Pegasus's (i'm big on convienience)

[Steve_2]

Sounds like a plan to me!  Carefull with the peacocks though...if you get two males, they will fight. Mooriis on the other hand wont be a problem. You can always got for a breeding trio of peacocks.

[groan]

what if i get two types of peacock, or is that a no-no?
what im saying is 5 blue dolphins, 3 peacock1 and 3 peacock 2?
Am i overstocking at this point?
I just like the variety but i dont want to get greedy at the expense of the fish.

[groan]

I see that Pegasus has Haplochromis sp. "Thick Skin" (C44) listed as well...

I'm hoping he'll chime in here so I can know what is actually available.
Pegasus, when you see this thread, can you post what fish in your stables you have available for purchase or will be soon available?
DD,
When will your c44's be available?

still looking for confirmation about my question above as well.

[darkdep]

IMHO, don't mix peacocks unless they are vastly different in colouration, but that's just me.  Many mix them.

Half my breeding group genetics are from Pegasus' C44 stock.  I know he was getting out of them, so not sure what he has.  I am growing up my first two spawns now (with two more in the breeding nets) but don't have enough experience with the babies yet to tell you how fast they grow.

[groan]

ok,
so I'll decide what type of peacock i want and wait for it, the c44 looks lovelya nd maybe i'll wait for them to go along with teh dolphins.

so in the end, how does this sound

4-5 mooriis
1m 2f  c44 peacocks (or some other)
4 afra
3 lab


should I get more afra and/or labs or stick with what I have? wait, if they do what they do I'll have more sooner or later.
on an aside, how big before I see the ones you sold me get into their breeding habits?

[Steve_2]

Correct me if I am wrong, but C44s are not peacocks and don't come from Lake Malawi. They are from Lake Victoria I believe. They are still super nice looking fish. I had them before but my dominant male harrassed my peacocks untill all but one of my females died. I got rid of all of them...which is too bas as my male c44 was my favourite fish in the whole tank at that point(That was before the Mooriis). As for mixing peacocks...thats not recommended at all. First of all, the males of different species will fight and you'll end up with very unhappy submissive males(and one proud dominant). Second...the females from pretty much all the different kinds of peacocks look almost identical therefore you will have lots of cross-breeding going on which is not recommended. Tghe good news is...you can get a trio of peacocks and a trio of c44s.

[groan]

hehe, well i'm sold on the mooriis so i will decide on one other batch of either c44's or a peacock.

thanks for the heads up onthe c44. i would like to keep the tank malawi only but we'll see.

[darkdep]

C44's are from Lake Victoria as Steve_2 said.  Lake Victoria is slowly being destroyed by humans and personally I think keeping something from that lake is a very Good Thing.

C44's are pretty feisty little things.  They are quite aggressive and I would absolutely not put them with Moorii.  I have them with young Ruben Red peacocks and M. Cyaneorhabdos (Maingano). 

[groan]

Aw to bad they are like that.
I really want the moorii so the C44's are out. I'll edit my first post to reflect my 'want' list

thanks for that info!

[pegasus]

Groan.. you did get good advice from both DarkDep and Steve_2 and some very good valuable observations from them.

I presently hold 3  6"+Blue Dolphin in a 75 gal  THEY rule the tank!  2 5" male Baenchi and 3  5" Phenochelus are no match for them and the demasoni will not show if they feel the waves are too big.
But they are not killers. The secret to grow them is simple.... give them a lot of water to move in, they don't grow well in a overpopulated tank.

C44 is still one of my favorite. I had some killers alright. They don't inflict deadly wounds but will keep cornering all the fish they can bully. The only big C44 that I kept is being check by a bigger Red Empress. If you want to keep a pair (because that the only way I sell them now  ) make sure they are not the biggest in your tank. So SRE, + Dolphin should be enough to keep them in their place until the 3 days in the month where the C-44 will show all his colors and take 3 square feet of territory. Not to worry... his soft lips are no match to mbuna's teeth's. Your yellow should be find with them all.

(From Pegasus) Stuartgranti, Red Empress, Lithobates, Maleri Sunshine, Crabro, moorii, Copadichromis mloto Midnight, Protomelas steveni Taiwan Reef, BN Pleco

In your case I would stay away from the Lithobates (hey.. those that I'm selling are great... I grew them just to see if they would get their yellow crest) I came on the forum to upload pictures of them for another buyer... Now if I would tell you why, them I would not be selling many of them.. right?

I have 4 breeding tanks of Red Empress and 4 tanks of juvies. Does that tell you anything?

Choose your peacock well because you should only have one variety. Of mine, there is no dough that should be getting my Red or Orange Eureka even if I'm trying to sell 2 nice trio of Baenschi. I took a great shot of the Eureka tonight , will upload tomorrow.
The Maleri would be my second choice but I don't have any fry.
My crabro are pending, will be breeding more maybe in the spring.
The Taiwan Reef fry are doing well and should be for sale in about 2 months. I may have some bigger and extra males but expecting a hight price for those. pictures were taken this weekend and should be in the gallery soon,
The Mloto are not a good choice for you if you go Red Empress and Dolphin. Of the fish I got from a breeder in Toronto, of the 3 males only one was of the deeper color variety. A few weeks after the first batch I lost my good male and had allready sold the other two. Question is ... who's the father of that batch? 

goodnight

[groan]

Wow, Thansk for all that info. lots of fantastic stuff here.
I know I want the moorii so that's a given.
Why do you suggest I go with the Eureka? do you have any pics? I looked at the profile on CF and it is a beauty. I also love the Red Empress.

I will not be necessarily aiming for breeding, but if they do i'll be letting nature take it's course, probably, but I do have a fry net if i happen to be able to get them in there.

anyways, the moorii will have lots of room. the afras and labs mainly use the bottom of the tank and there will only be one other type of fish in the tank.

so with that in mind, how many moorii and how many eureka or Red empress would you suggest? - I just noticed that above you mention that perhaps I could get 3 more types in the tank, is that right? I'm trying to figure out how much more I can fit comfortably.

thanks again everyone!

(Oh, do you have any moorii available?)

[pegasus]

When I had 4 Dolphins in the 70gal chasing each other you would see all other fish hide just to get out of the way. With 3, the 2 Baenschi trio and the 6 Demasoni can't breed anymore. What I saying is with your labs and afra 3 dolphin would be enough.

The nicest setup may be to only put one dolphin, a pair of Red Empress (need a female to get this male to parade more often) and a pair of peacock.

My extra Dolphins are to a size and price over the psychological limit so I'll be keeping them for breeding. 

As for the Eureka, I'll put up a picture of one of them tonight

[groan]

Great,
thanks for the reply. Maybe I'll pass on the moorii for now and just concentrate onother types of open-water inhabitants. I'll talk to you on saturday about my many options. It will be easier for me to make a decision when I see the fish.

Cheers,

[groan]

Given I am not getting the moori maybe I'll go for the C44's.
I saw the pic of the Eureka and I love it! (I hope I am the pending purchaser you note on the classifieds!)
I like the idea of having a fish from a lake that is going down the toilet. makes me feel like i am lending to preserving the memory of a once great lake.

anyways, I am sure I will have lots to decide tomorrow. I'll need your advice, Pegasus. I am still learning!

[groan]

I am the new proud owner of a pair of Peacock Lemon Jake (Female holding! Thanks Pegasus!) and a treo of Red Empress.

Thanks alot to Pegasus for spending the time with this newb (and it turns out we knew each other from my school days!)

Check out the new fish in my gallery
http://ovas.ca/index.php?action=gallery;su=user;cat=61;u=788

[sniggir]

have you thought about tang cichlids or you only like malawi

[groan]

I'm trying to stick with a Malawi only tank. Maybe someday i'll set up another tank for Tangs, but for now i am loving this tank.

[sas]

I'm trying to stick with a Malawi only tank. Maybe someday i'll set up another tank for Tangs, but for now i am loving this tank.

I think we should take bets on how long til groan sets up another tank

[groan]

lol!
I think i may use the 30 gal as a fry tank, or put the mommy into the 10 gal with the shrimps (only have 3-4 left in there) till she spits...thoughts? I would feel bad if she spit into the 70 and all the babies got munched...

Oh and I'm now changing the name of this thread to reflect this is now going to be just a journal...

[pegasus]

Oh and I'm now changing the name of this thread to reflect this is now going to be just a journal...

And your status also changed to BREEDER. Congratulation! 

[groan]

ya but you gave me a boost on that one.

I am going to move her to my 30 gallon tonight once i transfer over the filter floss from the 70 gallon. i have an apple snail and 2 small bristlenoses (longfinned!) in there now (Thanks Ottawadiscus!)

I want to provide a nice first home for those babies once the mommy spits.

[groan]

Thge female Lemon Jake is now in the 30 gallon with some nice new slate and a chunk of granite or something.

checked in on her this morning and she seems OK. I think she misses the crowd across the room
She can see the 70 gallon 6 feet away from her.  Im going to cry.
excuse me...

[groan]

At Superpet last night I got 2 peices of wood for the tanks. I was told that the plecos like to have wood in the tank (ottawadiscus credit) and he was right. So does the shrimp.
for the fry tank i got regular wood attached to a piece of slate. for the main tank I found some malaysian wood at SP. a small but not too small piece was under $10! I was surprised to see it at all, mind you i've never looked for it before so I suppose it could be commonly available. it is currently soaking to release some of the tannins before I put it in.

[groan]

Mommy Yellow Jake released her babies this morning!
Well at lest they were out of her mouth and swimming around. the lights were out so i didnt get a good look at how many there were.

Does this mean that they are out for good or will she take them back in? when I went to look they did not race back to her.
I did not see her mouth open while i was down there so i suppose there could be more inside.

[repeej]

Time to get a turkey baster and some frozen baby brine shrimp.

[pegasus]

If they still have their yolk sack then you have a few days before having to feed them. I feed mine, even with their yolk sack, micro-worms and even crushed flakes.

[groan]

i didnt see any yolk sack on the 3 or 4 that i saw.
I went out and bought NLS grow but the grains look like they may be too big yet for these little ones. I'll start with crushed flake i guess.

so same feeding schedule? I feed my main tank once a day in the evening.

I only want the best for my new babies. is micro-worm better than grow?

HELP! I am a new mother and have no idea what i'm doing!
I wasnt made for this!

[groan]

it's a little late for this now, but this article on Cichlid Forum
http://cichlid-forum.com/articles/raising_fry.php
says that the fry should be put into a fry cage to better feed them.
Should I be worried about that or will my babies be OK?
They are in a 30 gallon and I guess they are all spread outnow.
I'll make sure I put in enough food so that it settles on the gravel and hopefully they will find it.
Also there is lots of algae on the gravel. will they nibble?

[babblefish1960]

Try not to worry too much about their ability to eat, they have been doing it in the wild for millenia. I'm sure if you even buy some frozen baby brine shrimp, they will appreciate this, and it will help you get started. The microworms would be best, but if you haven't got any, you could also try hikari fryfood, it is in an envelope, and powdered, they will eat that too. It is sometimes good to let nature take its own course, otherwise you'll have to figure out what to do with all those puppies, and you certainly can't keep them all.

[pegasus]

Just crush your NLS pellets to a fine powder. Mouthbrooder's fry are big enought to eat dry food and they do like it more than once a day.

[groan]

OK, I'll break out the old morter and pestle and grind up some NLS
Thanks!

[darkdep]

Yep, crushed NLS grow is good as is flake.  I usually feed frozen baby brine shrimp to new hatchlings for about a week (too lazy to culture microworms or BBS) and they I switch them to NLS, spirulina flakes, and frozen AP food.

Feed many times per day...I sometimes feed babies 4 times a day.  They're always hungry

They will be fine with the mother. 

[groan]

Thanks DD, I'll feed as often as I can given I am at work all day...I guess I can feed at night after the lights go out and in the morning before they come on.

i'm really looking forward to them developing.
I can forsee me having to get rid of the remaining shrimp and turning my last 10 gal tank into another fry tank! sigh...my wife's going to kill me.

[pegasus]

I feed them micro-worm for one big reason.... micro-worms will live up to 3 days in the tank but I still feed them at least once a day. After 2 weeks, the fry are usually to big for the worms, so at one week old (even before) I start them on flake and NLS powder (small amount)

[darkdep]

I'm at work all day too; feedings happen as soon as I get home shortly after 5ish, then after the kids are asleep (say, 9) and then right before bed (12ish).

Once you start you'll be addicted...I'm the proud papa of 34 new C44 babies as of last night, and have one of my big Spilonotus holding again (HOPEFULLY with Multipunctatus fry this time!!) and my very first holding C. Moorii is in the nursery tank, 12 days in...really excited about that one. Michel has really blasted himself up that BAP list and I need to catch up or he won't respect me LOL

[sniggir]

right on have fun and enjoy your new fish.... if you end up like me you will end up setting up 4 tanks in 4 month's

[groan]

Nice and congrats!
I can see how it can be addicting, but I can't afford to put in the amount of time you guys do, let alone the money...I'll have to let some of the babies either grow out together and separate the 30 gallon with dividers or use the 10 gallon. and go without a sick tank.
Actually using the 30 with dividers might work out well!
Great idea! thanks! I expect this wont be the last batch of babies from my 70gallon...

Snigger, I'm sure my wife would kill me if i set up one more tank..maybe she'll change her mind when I tell her it's to save babies from being eten...Make it sound like it's her idea, right DD?

[darkdep]

Hey, last night I convinced my wife that because the C44 is from Lake Victoria, which is quickly being destroyed, that in 10 years these fish may be extinct or nearly extinct in the wild, so we're actually conserving a species. 

She bought it. 

[sniggir]

enjoy your new fish friends, and whatch out you may get the fish bug bad like me and set up 4 tanks in 4 months including my first sw lol once the bug bites 

pat

[groan]

when can I re-introduce the mommy back to the main tank?
I've now counted 9 babies that i can see...small batch, no? i am pretty sure this must be her first one.

[RoxyDog]

Hey, last night I convinced my wife that because the C44 is from Lake Victoria, which is quickly being destroyed, that in 10 years these fish may be extinct or nearly extinct in the wild, so we're actually conserving a species. 

She bought it. 

APW:  No she didn't...you bought it that she bought it.  It's a game, you'll lose, don't even try.   

Groan:  Aren't you already *talking* about a certain homemade stand for your next tank? 

[groan]

"Groan:  Aren't you already *talking* about a certain homemade stand for your next tank?"

actually i want a new stand for my existing tank...

[darkdep]

SURE you do.  Keep telling her that. 

[groan]

i have a question about feeding the group you see in my signature.
as for now I have been feeding them mainly NLS pellets and ocasionally just regular tetra min flakes.
The smaller cish go crazy and gobble it all up before my two larger lemon jakes can get to it. the big daddy jake hardly seems to get any food at all.
I'm a little concerned that the jakes are going to starve.

I am on my way out to SP in Orleans to pick up some supplies and will be getting some spirulina flakes or sticks.

can you make any recomendations on how i can make sure my bigger fish are getting fed? also what sort of variety should i feed this crew?

Thanks for your help. I see lots of posts about food, but its hard to tell what to feed this diverse community.

Cheers

[pegasus]

The NLS Growth pellets may be to small for the big peacock but they should be picking it up of the substrate. The NLS Cichlid formula, bigger pellets, was what they were getting before.

You should also have some DD's beefheart in your freezer. That stuff will revive a dead cichlid instantly. 

[darkdep]

LOL  A big benefit of the frozen food is that ALL the fish, regardless of size, will get their fill.  I wouldn't use the beefheart in an African Cichlid tank but the Green and Omni formulas I would.

[groan]

ive been feeding nls cichlid formula to the whole tank and they seem to be happy with it.
though i was afraid the big guy wasnt getting his fill.

i picked up some spirulina sticks that DarkDep suggested a while ago in a PM. I see they are floaters.
I guess i could do a combination of feeding both the nls and the s. sticks.

I did not get any frozen. maybe some day DD...

[groan]

I had a sheet of plexiglass on top of the tank with a little 24" compact flash light on it. the whole thing began warping a bit and looked bad.
I went out yesterday and bought a glass cover and a 48" Coralife compact flash from BA's (no OVAS discount on the coralife line! keep that in mind!)
I paid for it anyways...i should have not bought it and did the same thing Art did and order it online...oh well. I have it now and it is GREAT! 130 watts instead of whatever little amount the other one was and it goes edge to edge and the gold tone finish looks fantastic. If i want to do plants I believe i can now though the africans may have something else to say about it.
should have done it a long time ago.
pics to follow...some day.

[groan]

Not shots of the 70 gallon, but the babies of the female Lemon Jake:



[attachment deleted by admin]

[groan]

Shot of the tank, thought I had one of the full tank with the new light and glass hood but i didnt...this is the current rock setup though.


[attachment deleted by admin]

[groan]

closeup of a crowd shot

[attachment deleted by admin]

[groan]

I have a question though...to keep agression down i've read I should have 18-20 fish or even more in this size of tank..

what are your thoughts? should I add more of each or just wait fore more babies and keep some?

[pegasus]

Don't forget... It's nice to overstock but they will also grow to the point of you having to trim them down later, or you will sell them back or you will have found the reason to satisfy your MTS disorder.

The fast and easy way is to introduce more females..... boring
Keeping juvies that will later become competitive males.... welll, you know
Can't intoduce another of the same genus or too similar. (general rule)

Since your tank is stocked with somewhat aggressive Malawis, I'd be careful with small or delicate fish.

Of what I already have in stock and if you don't mind mixing it with Tangs: 6 more fish ...

1 male C44 (maybe a female also) (Lake Victoria & regions)
3 Neolamprolugus brichardi, leleupi or tretocephalus (any of these can be mix going against the above general rule.
3 Juliochromis
1 Cyrtocara moorii  (Blue dolphin)
3 Iodotropheus sprengerae (Rusty)
1 Pseudotropheus demasoni

1 Synodontis

Have fun

[groan]

Thanks Peggy!

I dont want to overstock, I want to properly stock.

Maybe I'll get one more trio +1 and stop there.
I dont mind mixing lakes, but thought I'd try to stick to Malawi initially.

I dont want to put in another Peacock since i already have  the red empress trio in there  and the Demasoni looks too much like the afras
The Rusty i really like and of course the C44 looks great, maybe the moorii...

We'll see. i'll think about it.

[groan]

waaa!
i just found the empty carcus of my other albino BN pleco in my 30. looks like the snail found him.
its completely a shock to me. the fish was alive and swimming this morning! looked fine.

very strange. still no sign of the first one that went missing.

Sorry Ottawadiscus. i loved them!

If i replace them i'll get larger ones.

The Synos are doing great and I'll throw up some pics soon!

[groan]

argh!
I just went out and got a aquaclear 70 to help clear the protein and cloudy water problem but I failed to measure the space behind the tank...
Not enuf roooooommmmm...

so now I have this filter and can't fit it. sigh.
any suggestion or am I going to have to empty, move and refill?

this sucks.

I can't return it because I've already rinsed the media.

chalk one up for experience...remember to always measure before installing!

[PaleoFishGirl]

Measure twice, cut once

[babblefish1960]

That is actually pretty funny, you know, if you were really adventurous, you could install a niche in the wall like the people do for pieces of art and just tell visitors you didn't want to take up any more floor space.

Measure twice, cut once

I was so sure it was some other handyman trick, check it out by eyeballing it and then cut a good several times until it is just about right, sort of.

[groan]

lol, thanks for the suggestion1 i'll consider it! NOT

I'll hold on to it, when I get a chance I'll empty it down to 6-8 inches so I dont have to remove fish and get a few guys over to help move it. I jsut need a couple inches out from the wall.

[repeej]

Hang it on the front for now until some poor sap offers to help you move the tank out.

[groan]

Repeej, you're a genious.
it's the simplest things we fail to see.
Thanks!

[groan]

red empress is today officially holding.

im going fry crazy!!!

oh and i added 2 more BN plecos from BA's on innis.
they were only 12.99 each! and aparently are wild caught from Peru. they are about 2.5 - 3 inches long and have nice bushy bushyness. i was surprised to see them for such a price...until i had a close look when i got them home. they have small white lumps. one has one on its tail and the other has one on its side and he also has little to no tail. not sure what it is...

i have them in a hospital tank, no carbon and using a slow natural ich and other medicine. it was all i had. they seem to be ok but i'll keep a close eye on them.

if i can manage a pic i'll psot it and get some advice.

[groan]

Some new pics and the BN lump pic...
click images for full sizes
You can see the lump on his cheek



Otopharynx lithobates male (from Pegasus's auction stock)


Otopharynx lithobates female(from Pegasus's auction stock)


And a group shot