20 gallon?

[Daisy]

Hi Everyone -

I know exactly nothing about African cichlids, except that they are beautiful, intelligent (as fish go...), and have interesting behaviours. 

I am considering buying a 20 gallon tank, for the specific purpose of keeping a few (smaller?) Africans.  (My other tanks are friendly and semi-aggressive.)

I do realize that this (20 gallon) is a smaller aquarium size.... Any suggestions for the *best, most interesting* African cichlids to keep in a tank that size?   

Thanks!
Daisy.

[Brent Shaver]

I am not sure I would attempt keeping cichlids in a tank that small.  I have a large one and you need hiding areas to defuse aggression which will leave even less swim area.  I know some people that have used a 50 gallon but now they have either sold them or upgraded to a larger tank.

IMO by time you add the sand and then the rock work to give them a good enviroment you wouldnt have many gallons of actual water left for swimming.  I just picked up some juvies and they are still 3cm, so you can see that size is a major factor when keeping cichlids.

HTH
Brent

[bitterman]

You can do a shell dweller tank in a 20, even a 10.

I had a pair of Brevis is a 10. They even started spawning. However # of fish will be somewhat limited and you may need to stick to a species tank.

Bruce

[Cbellehumeur]

I wouldn't really recommend a 20G. Aggressive fish need room to swim and get away from one another and a 20g can't really offer that. Plus with the amonut of rock you would have to put in there to create territory you would have no free swim room. Plus some africans can get fairly large...even yellow labs are 4-5". Yellow labs are less aggressive than some afrcian and my 4 labs fight in my 75 g. I wouldn't really go smaller than 55g. Than again i'm thinking mbuna cichlids from lake malawi or something like that ....maybe you have something eles in mine.

[fischkopp]

Smaller West-African like Kribensis can work in that tank, too. But unlike rift-lake cichlids they come from soft acidic rain-forest waters, very comparable to the waters in the South-American Amazon basin. The Amazon is habitat to many small cichlids, dwarf cichlids, like Apistogramma and the infamous Blue Ram. These fish can be very well kept in a 20gal and are well worthy a consideration if your mind isn't set on Africans.

[charlie]

You can do a shell dweller tank in a 20, even a 10.

I had a pair of Brevis is a 10. They even started spawning. However # of fish will be somewhat limited and you may need to stick to a species tank.

Bruce

http://www.aquaticcommunity.com/cichlid/shelldwellers.php

[Daisy]

Thanks to everyone, for all of this :-)

Yes, your points are all well taken on how small the tank is -  my house just cannot accommodate another larger tank.  That said, I would indeed consider a "species" tank -   for this particular effort, I would be happy with just a very few fish (even as few as 2).

I am more interested in dedicating the tank to something really interesting to watch (and I had thought Africans, since I don't have any aggressive fish at all so far, and since I've heard they are lovely and smart and interesting).  It would be great to hear views on which specific species might be beautiful and have interesting behaviours (and perhaps not be too common - though, of course, everything is new to me:-)

As for Blue Rams... yes indeed, I agree with that; I think they are lovely and no I'm not dead-set on Africans.   I have read that Blue Rams are more sensitive fish, though, and I wondered if I might need more experience to keep them, successfully.  I also understand that they are friendly fish... and so should I acquire some, perhaps I could add them to one of the other tanks (in other words, they would not need to have a dedicated 20 gallon tank, at least due to aggression issues.)

Anyhow - thanks for your thoughts, all :-)  There is no rush - the 20 gallon won't be ready for fish for awhile.  Your input is very helpful.

And I enjoyed the meeting last night :-)  (Smart club!)
Daisy.

[bitterman]

I would start looking here
http://www.cichlid-forum.com/profiles/category.php?cat=14

It will give you an idea of what types of shell dwellers are available and then see what sized tank is recommended for your top 5 pics.

Here is something else that might be helpful.

http://www.cichlid-forum.com/articles/cookie_cutter_20g.php
http://www.aquarticles.com/articles/breeding/Riegel_Shell_Dwellers.html

Bruce

[Daisy]

Bruce - this is really helpful indeed, thanks for the links and the ideas.  This will help me think :-)

(Or maybe I should just adopt Brent's problematic demasoni :-) :-) :-)

Daisy.

[bitterman]

I am taking you are Joking about the demasoni... a 20 is no way an appropriate tank for them

Bruce

[Brent Shaver]

My demasoni is already spoken for, but if he wasnt I would have to say I wouldnt allow him to go from a 110 to a 20..

[Daisy]

Yes, indeed... I was only kidding (only because I'd read in the other thread that he was causing so much trouble!)
It was an attempt at humour - but I'll be careful in future :-)

[Brent Shaver]

Dont think it came out right, sorry.  Just under the weather..

Meant to smile at the end..  No worries

[markw]

Daisy, I just want to say that I wish there were more hobbyists like you who took the time to really learn what works and what doesn't. Patience is a marvellous trait, and it works well with this hobby. If you do your homework like you've been demonstrating, then I don't see why you won't be able to successfully take care of any fish you try. I'll provide you a list of what I think will work when i return to home in a few days.

[Daisy]

Thanks everyone :-)

Don't worry... I'm sure I'll do something ill-advised at some point (but it will be by accident and not for lack of trying to get it right:-)  I appreciate all your help.

I will be reading up some more on small shell-dwellers who might be appropriate for my little tank.  But meantime, a bit of a generic question (it's not specific to Africans, I don't think, so I apologize for stretching the rules):

I like the idea of a "pair" of something for the smaller tank.  However, much of what I read suggests that - for many or most species?-  I may need to purchase several fish and "wait" for pair to choose each other, and distinguish themselves from the crowd.

The problem is... with a small tank... what would I do with the left-over crowd?  (And is there a more economical way to achieve a pair of fish, than making an up front expenditure that is 5 or 6 times higher than strictly necessary, given the result that I'm after.)

In sum:  For any species, if I buy only one boy and one girl fish, will they necessarily become a pair?

Or are they like people, and problematically choosy?

:-)

Daisy

[bitterman]

I agree with Mark, It is great that you are spending the time to research the fish and your tank!

As for stocking levels etc. Most people stock there tank based on the adult size of the fish. That being said, when they are smaller and your tank is already cycled you can hold a higher number of fish and then let them grow and make there pairs. When it gets to that point you would then sell the remaining on OVAS in the classifieds.

Like I said before I had a pair of Brevis in a 10, so you might be luck if you stared with 6 and get 2 pairs. You might also if you post a LF in the forums get in touch with a breeder and get a young pair.

Keep in mind some fish are great in pairs, other are better with 1 Male and a few females... It depends on the fish.

One thing I tell alot of people, get something different and nice that is not in your area. Then when the fish breeds you will eventually end up with a nice supply of fry that will be in demand and help fund the hobby. Pay for food or something.. We do it because we like the fish not because you can make alot of $$$ at it.

Bruce

[Daisy]

More good advice, thanks for this, Bruce.