Absolutely Devastated NEED HELP PLZ

[Brent Shaver]

I just got home from camping, only been gone since Friday afternoon and I walked in and my 110 was a milky color and every one of my cichlids were dead, well with the exception of about 6 fry and 2 adults and somehow my 11" pleco made it.

I am doing water changes like crazy and trying hard to keep the rest alive.  I have pulled all the rock, all the dead fish     I did move the fry that was alive to my other tank as I dont have a hospital tank, hope I didnt just transfer the problem but couldnt want them die.

My best guess is I lost approx 26 fish and IT DOESNT MAKE SENCE!!!

If I can solve this which I have my doubts I will be left with only my fry and 2 cichlids, and my pleco and he has what looks like a white film on him as well so pretty sure I am going to lose him as well.

If anyone has anything that can help me solve this could you please give me a call as I am aobut to lose my mind.

Please only call if you can help as I am busy

My cell is 613-862-6757

Thanks Brent

[Brent Shaver]

So far

2 - synodontis multipunctatus 4-5"
3 - Pseudotrophis Socolofi 3-4"
1 - Red Fin Zebra 5"
8 - Bumble Bee 2m/6f 4-6"
2 - Red Zebra 5"
4 - Yellow Labs 6"
1 - Pseudotropheus sp Acei Ngara 4"
2 - Pseudotropheus Acei 6"
5 - fry

Now the only living fish is one hybrd cichlid and my pleco, I am thinking I will be able to correct the water enough to save hiim as they are pretty strong and hardy but this has just drained me completely, I have never felt so useless in my life....

[salvini55]

sounds like a bacterial bloom. Havent really ever seen one in a freshwater tank that will turn the water white, usually green algea bloom. Look up "culminaris bactor" sp? it will claim the lives of the fish usually within 24 hours. I suggest 90-100% water change

[Brent Shaver]

Well I am already on the 5th 50% and now I know for sure that I have all the fish that died out of the tank, unless there is a couple fry I just cant see.  I am now just murky and is getting better with the water changes.

[Brent Shaver]

Sorry yes I will check that out, and thanks for the info.  Just not thinking straight right now.

[dan2x38]

Brent sorry for your loss!!!  No answers for you if not algae bloom maybe a fish dies and fowled the water then created a chain reaction.

Were you able to do any water tests? Had you recently done a water change? We've had a lot of rain lately that creates some nasty run offs. 

My Africans some times spawn. I never try to catch them just leave them. If they do I wil grab them and pass them on if you like. Hope you can save the last of them.

[Brent Shaver]

I did a 50% water change Thursday night knowing I was going to be away.  The water tested fine, no problems that showed.

As I was removing the rock it was too hard to tell which fish was where but possibly when that quake hit there was a minor (understatement) avalanche I didnt notice and a fish got trapped.

As for testing the water when I got home, cant say I did, I was in a panic to get the dead ones out and try my best to save anything alive.  Still working on the tank and going to boil the rock before i put it back and like I said there is only the pleco and one hybrid in the tank right now and I believe it is going to stay that way for a while.  This type of loss is not something I even considered unless I came home to my tank broke and them on the floor.  Once I get the water right I will move the fry back over.  In the meantime I am going to do hourly water tests on the other tank till I am sure nothing is going to go screwy there.

I am so glad I didnt pick up my black acei's yet.

As for the fry Dan, I appreciate the offer but I am going to hold of on adding anything more to this tank for a while and then I am not even sure what I am going to do with it, as I said I have a couple black acei's that I am going to be getting and I really have to rethink quanity and types before restocking...

[ciaus]

Brent, I am truly sorry to hear of this loss.
One thought has occurred to me,  If the water is a milky white, it is probably bacterial, and i have seen it before, usually when the existing "good Bacteria" is being stressed to the maximum.  Usually if it is caused by the migration to a larger tank, the system will self adjust in a few weeks...If on the other hand, the tank crashes you will see a much more opaque milky color.  There are only two ways to correct the crash, massive water changes unitl your system can rebuild itself, you will be doing a complete cycle with fish inhabiting the water column.  The other way would be to add a UV filtration system to take on the bacteria causing the the milky color...either way is not a good outcome for the existing critters as it is very stressful, on them too.

As to what caused it?  I would speculate two things contributed to it....an over aggressive water change on the Thursday, before you left, weakened the "good guys", this combined with the newly added bioload of your new inhabitants, ( cherry shrimp spawn) were enough to crash the the tank, and you just weren't there to intervene.  Back luck.

HTH

Ciaus

[Brent Shaver]

Shrimp and cichlids are in 2 different tanks.

Still at a loss why, but the loss is substancial just the same.  Did some reading and it seems it is bacterial related, and a 50% water change shouldnt have shocked anything in the tank, I had about 100 lbs of rough rock in the tank.

I am starting to think that with the bacteria and the possiblily of me missing a fish that got caught in the rock work after that quake.. Who knows, just very expensive and extremely depressing as this was my pride and joy, the other tank was nice but this one was #1 to me.

Live and learn I guess.

[markw]

Brent, Don't get misled by the white water. They may have died a few days ago and just left the slime residue to taint the water. Any chance your filter crashed, or lost all its bacteria? Usually massive deaths occur when temperatures go extreme, a toxin enters the water or the ammonia levels become toxic after a filter crash. A disease will usually kill fish slowly, and even one or two dead ones will effect nitrate levels but it would take a while to kill off the whole tank.
If you want to "change lakes" I can give you a bunch of my Tanganyikan fry to get you going again when you're ready.
Three years ago I lost over half my stock(350 w/c adults) when I had a big problem with my central system. I posted my story here on OVAS and 2 of the nicest guys from Montreal offered to give me a bunch of their fish to help replace mine. I'll never forget their kindness and the fact that thats what makes the hobby what it is. So please let me know if I can help you out and whenever you're ready let me know.
Good luck and sorry for the loss.
Mark

[charlie]

Hi Brent sorry for your loss,good luck in your restocking.
Regards

[bitterman]

Brent, I wish there was something I could say to help

Good luck and I have some fry for you if you decide to go frontosa.

Bruce

[Jeff1192]

Brent,

That's a tough loss. I definitely agree with Mark on this one. Something happened here more than just a dead fish causing this and I really don't think it's the water change. I do at least 50% changes every Saturday on my 90 gallon. I too would tend to think that something happened to your filter or a toxin got in the tank. Pretty tough to explain that large of a die-off in such a short time any other way.

Jeff

[Brent Shaver]

Thank you all, and I agree it is a mystery.

Thanks everyone that has offered to help restock my tank, as of right now I think I am going to work on this to keep the couple I have left alive and go from there.  Greatly appreciated and wont be forgotten.

Now I am going to go fall into a bottle of rum and try and wash this day away.

[Fishnut]

Oh dear!!   I'm so sorry to hear that Brent. 

I think you're right in the fact that you must have missed a fish that got trapped in the rock slide, or like markw said, maybe your heater decided to make it into a discus tank temperature wise .  The water change, as most have mentioned is ok, so don't beat yourself up over it.  With all those dead fish in the tank, I'm not surprised that it was all cloudy...and it would have been useless to test the water after the fact because of there are that many dead fish in the tank, there is going to be a very high level of toxins.  There's no way you would have been able to determine if there was an increase in toxins before they all died. 

You've done everything you can do.

I'm not an african cichlid person so all I can offer is a stable tank to keep the remaining fish in...if you want to keep them at my place for a bit.  I have a 40 long that inhabitants are being moved out of.  Their quarantine is over and they're healthy.

Hug...you sound like you need one

[salvini55]

be careful if you decide to boil the rock! I highly suggest boiling water and pouring on the rocks. My point being that sometimes there are pockets of trapped air inside the rock that when heated, will expand and the rock will explode possibly causing you harm. Just a caution

oh and +1 on the rum! Hang in there

[FishBuddy]

Hey Brent,

Very sorry to hear your misfortune   I know how it feels as I've been there before.. 
Anyways, there's always light at the end of the tunnel...  I am willing to offer you the following to help you get started again:

1)  2 ps. acei 'luwala reef'; around 3.5' each.
2)  a pair of a. nayase 'tangerine'; 1M/1F around 3' each; these are beautiful fish.
3)  a pair of a. stuartgranti; 1M/1F around 2.5'each; nice colors

Let me know when you would like to pick it up and it's yours.  I was going to sell them initially but what the heck; we have a hobbyist to save now

So far

2 - synodontis multipunctatus 4-5"
3 - Pseudotrophis Socolofi 3-4"
1 - Red Fin Zebra 5"
8 - Bumble Bee 2m/6f 4-6"
2 - Red Zebra 5"
4 - Yellow Labs 6"
1 - Pseudotropheus sp Acei Ngara 4"
2 - Pseudotropheus Acei 6"
5 - fry

Now the only living fish is one hybrd cichlid and my pleco, I am thinking I will be able to correct the water enough to save hiim as they are pretty strong and hardy but this has just drained me completely, I have never felt so useless in my life....

[Nerine]

Sorry to hear of your loss

[RoxyDog]

So sorry to hear Brent.    I only have a reef so cannot offer much help, but there are some great fish offered here and hopefully you'll find inspiration in that and build up a great tank again.

[Blackstitch]

Sorry to hear of the whole tank crashing. I'm not exactly sure what I would do if I lost my cichlid tank, seeing as to I have rusty cichlids in there, and I'd like to keep them even though they are all brownish in colour.

[Brent Shaver]

Thanks again all, I have been running it over and over in my head and nothing makes sence.  Considering there was active breeding happening, Bruce mentioned possibly the males went overly aggressive and went on a killing spree.

But I would think that would leave at least a male alive but again who knows.  It is and always will be a mystery.

As far as all the offers recieved for fish, Thanks you greatly.  I think I am going to try and keep what is left alive and see what happens for a while.  If I lose the rest I will be shutting down the tank and doing a complete overhaul, will do a deluted bleach wash and redo my 2 filters.  Then in a couple months I will try and restart it.  Just dont want to start again before I know everything is going to be ok.

I have to clean one of my filters out completely tonight and try to get the water back to normal as it is still milky but not as bad.  I will clean the rock work and leave it out for now (for the record when I say boil, it wont be in a pot on the stove but more of a rinse and scrub with boiling water).  Although I will boil all the bio balls in the one filter and start it from fresh.

Anyway another chapter in the life and times of fish keeping.

Not going to give up  but might take a break for a bit to get over this one.

Thanks again all.

[washefuzzy]

Brent I'm so sad to hear of your lost. Wishing you luck in keeping the others alive. Enjoy the medicinal rum!

[FocusFin]

Anyway another chapter in the life and times of fish keeping.

Not going to give up  but might take a break for a bit to get over this one.

Sorry to hear.

It seems like a lottery sometimes, everything's running fine until you turn your back and wham!

Dust yourself off and get back on the horse

[Lisachromis]

Wow.  I know what you're going through. I had a very similar situation before many years ago.  I came home from an ACA at 2 am on a Monday night and came into this horrific smell coming from my kitchen (which is where the tank in question was).  I noticed some of the fish seemed whiter than usual. I turned on the lights and the sight that greeted me was something I'll never forget.  Dead fish everywhere!!!!  I think I had 3 fish survive. I was scooping up dead fish into a bag to throw outside since they were too big to flush.  Then it was water change after water change until the large majority of the smell was gone. I think it was like 5 am before I went to sleep.  I did have someone in to check my fish, but they always came in after it was dark and didn't want to wake the fish.  They had thought my cat died and they tried looking for it but couldn't find it.

My personal thought is that one of my bigger fish died and caused an ammonia spike or something and that slowly killed the others and it started a cascade of death!

I know I cried myself to sleep that night. I lost a lot of really nice cichlids. But, as you see, I'm still in the hobby. So it does get better. 

[fischkopp]

Sorry to hear about the disaster, Brent. As discouraging as it might be, don't give up on it. Throwbacks happen to all of us ...

Given the short time in which things went down, I would check the equipment closely:
- heater failure?
- filter failure / blockage
- aeration?
- was there a power outage?

Do you have enough filtration/aeration to begin with to handle higher loads?
Did you starve your fish prior to the last WC before leaving, and didn't have someone feeding them in between?

Just thougths to avoid this happening again.

[dan2x38]

On another note I am going away for a week. When I go I have someone come in twice a day. I package up food for each tank and mark AM/PM. I also give them a number of contacts of fish hobbyists for an emergency. They have mine of course. Before I go I do a WC but 2 days before to see if everything is fine. I double up on Prime too. I check filter flow through I learned the hard way on that. The tank had 3 filters but one was a HOB. The sponge plugged up and the water over flowed slowly I lost maybe 3 gallons on the carpet.

It is hard to foresee any mishap for sure. You can only start again and not beat yourself up. Who knows for sure what happen? This is a constant learning hobby for certain. Every week there is another little something I catch on to that is for sure makes it fun.

I really feel bad for you I can't imagine that happening to my tank/s... I mentioned giving you fry in an earlier post. I spotted some I think they are more Black PS Acei. If they survive your definitely welcome to them when your ready with your other ones. I do not protect them by moving or keep them later I usually sell them off to control population.

[Brent Shaver]

Well I finally have the tank stabilized and some work left but I managed to save my pleco at 11" he would have been a big loss.  I also saved one cichlid that is pretty much like my pic for my profile, but still think he could be a hybrid.  I also managed to save 9 fry which are doing well snacking on my shrimp in the other tank ugh, have to get them back tonight or tomorrow.  Strange lossing the shrimp doesnt seem bad after what happened and it seems they breed like rabbits anyway.

I am not really sure how the fry managed to survive given the amount of loss and how bad the water was.

Just to answer a couple questions that were asked in the previous post.

I run
2 - Ehiem Pro 2 canister filters
2 - 200 watt heaters (both working fine)  Digital Thermator(sp?) was spot on for temp
I run the air 60 with a air stone

I know I didnt have a power failure on the weekend as I checked with the couple on call and there was no issues with power and everything was running when I walked in.

As far as feeding, Tues and Wed I did an extra feeding and fed twice on the Friday, but they ate it all and with the water change of 50% that shouldnt have been the cause as I have done this exact thing many times.

As for restocking I have decided to go with
Bumble Bees
Blue Acei's
Black Acei's
Yellow Labs

I know I will keep the numbers lower at least for the summer, maybe 3 of each and with my fry that should be enough for now.

Again I want to Thank Everyone for your responces, condolences and restock offer.

If anyone knows anyone that has any of the above for sale please let me know.  I am not looking for anything free, but will be looking for at least 1m/3f of each.  I know runner(Denis) has bumble bees and possibly the Blue Acei's and is holding my Black Acei's so shouldnt take long to get it back to being normal.

Just a side note, Dont forget to take pics of your tanks, I havent taken one sence long before I added alot of my fish and now I regret it greatly.  Memory isnt as good as a pic 

[Brent Shaver]

A friend had taken a few pictures that I managed to get my hands on so I thought I would show what the tank use to look like.  Only thing that is missing is the 4 bumble bees that I added.

Sorry about the size still havent mastered the small to large pic thing..lol




Now I just have to rebuild...

[dan2x38]

Nice looking tank Brent!

I did notice something though. Your substrate is very deep? That can be an issue. If the substrate becomes O2 depleted then anaerobic bacteria builds up low in the substrate. Large pockets of sulphuric gas can build up. Then if a pocket is released suddenly disaster strikes.

Cichlids are big diggers and root a lot especially if preparing to spawn - if their a substrate spawner. Were there any of them showing spawning behavarior before you left? This might have been the cause? How long was tank setup for? It is a highly toxic gas and small amounts are extermely dangerous.

I worked around this gas in the oil fields of Alberta. If humans are exposed to 10,000ppm only to air only 1% to air it can render you unconscious and then you are over taken by the gas and calapse and then die shortly after from further inhalation at ground level. It is heavier than air so it sinks near the ground. Not sure how it reacts under water but small amounts must be bad period?

[Brent Shaver]

Agreed it is deep or should I say was.  Although all my cichlids were diggers so nothing stayed in the same place more then a day as they would dig to the bottom then move it around again.

I am dropping the sand about 60% more for cleaning ease, but what you said makes sence.

And considering I will only have one adult cichlid, 9 fry and my pleco for 110 gallons I am sure the water quality wont be near as much of a problem.

I am going on holidays a week Monday and have a house sitter this time.  Dont have as many to lose but wont take a chance now.

As soon as I am back will be getting my black acei's and blue acei's.  The bumble bees wont be aggressive as fry and then all I will have to get is the yellow labs and then that will be it this time, not going to over stock like before.

[dan2x38]

Breant LMK when start populating again. I will watch in Mtrl. for stock for you. It is a good price and stock always. Only catch I come back it is always (85%) after 9pm. I have no tanks for holding anymore either. Well I do bu tthey are for emgerencies like QT or hospital only.

[Brent Shaver]

I have already made arrangements for the black and blue acei's.  The only thing I dont have yet is the yellow labs and I am in no hurry so will probably wait until a breeder has some.  Yellow labs are one of the easier to get a hold of so not worried.

If it takes a couple months I wont lose any sleep over it as I am not in a hurry at this point.  Wont even be adding my acei's until the first of Aug.

Thanks anyway

[motoro]

Hello Brent,

I just saw your post today.  I know how you feel.  I went through a similar experience that week.

You said you did a large water change the day before you left?  Did you treat your water?

Every summer is the same for me.   After a heat wave the City of Ottawa will often add more chemicals to the water to ensure it safe to drink.  That is usually not good for fish.

In my experience I've learned that doing smaller (but more often) water changes in the summer is better.  (Unfortunately I don't always practice what I have learned, and paid for it this past week.)

The white water was probably just a result of dead fish starting to decay.

Anyway, I hope you get to replace your fish soon.  You truly have a nice looking tank.

[cdylnicki]

I have 2 baby yellow labs (released 3 weeks ago) that I would like to offer you.

They are still tiny guys, but I don't mind giving them up. 

[Brent Shaver]

Thanks for the offer and the PM is sent..