Lighting suggestions

[10gnano]

Hey guys
I was wondering what lighting configuration you would use to get mre growth out of your corals

I havent noticed much growth on them in the last year.
I currently have 3 light fixtures over my tank.
1 2 bulb 24 inch t5ho with 1 18k and 1 actinic
1 2 bulb 24 inch t5 2 actinics
1 2 bulb 24 inch with 1 10k bulb and 1 actinic.

the double actinic is on for about 12 hours per day.
the other two light are on for about 8 hours

I have frog spawn,candy cane, torch coral, polyps, duncan coral, Malu anemone, some purple mushroomsand one coral that has been undetermined of its identity. lol

I was using a 75 watt viper MH with an 20 k bulb and my 2 t5h0's
I thought I would get more balance useing a 6 bulb system, Now I just need to be told what bulbs to use. lol. I am worried about growth now and not colour. I wasnt my tank to fill in. It looks bare to me. not to others but to me it does.
I have just started with the 6 bulbs . its a 55 gallon bow front

[Darth]

if your bulbs are a year or so old, change them, 10k is the best for growth

[10gnano]

so should i put all 10k bulbs in? or do I need some actinic?

[Darth]

actinics are really for color, if you want straight growth, then its my understanding corals prefer 10k, now that being said corals don't grow overnight LOL As far as I know new bulbs if over 8 months old, metal halide change once a year actincs are great for fluorescence (sp?) but not a necessity

[yellowtang]

you have mentioned lights
however, do you supplement your corals with any additives
iodine,magnesium.strontium calcium and so on.....and water changes!!!
also do u feed your anemones and duncan corals.......some corals which are not
photosynthetic benefit from direct feeding.
if your bulbs are older replace them when possible.
cheers

[10gnano]

I feed the a combo of mysis, cyclopese, coral accel, as well as coral biocalcium, I add magneseium, and Iodine regularly as well

[Darth]

in my history polyps are funny, I find the more blander ones grow faster for whatever reason, my candycanes don't seem to ever do well for me, sps can't seem to keep, I just got 2 frags recently and both just kind of disengrated, but my anenome, leather and frogspawn are doing well, I had a torch with 3 heads, and 1 died within a week one is just barely hanging on, and the other is thriving. So I dont know if there is an exact science to growth 

[Hookup]

Flow is a big contributor to growth as well...  Good flow really helps export and import functions of the coral...

Spot feeding those LPS will help too.

Ca, Alk, Mg levels, and pH, temp, sg also need to be stable.

Oh, and I think someone mentioned lights?   

[Bob P]

Slight correction here. Actinic bulbs are the wavelength for maximum
photosenthisis on the common corals we keep.
And why are you running 3 small 24" fixtures on
a tank that size? You should get one that suits the length.
A good 4 or 6 bulb t5 will suffice. You're throwing
a bunch of low watt light at it. Somebody correct me if I'm
wrong on this, but as far as I know,
2, 27 watt bulbs does not equal the output of
a single 54 watt bulb.? 
Run half your bulbs 420nm and maybe one 454.
The other half 10K white or actinic white 50/50.
Actinic 10 hours, white 8 hours.
Have timers put actinics on an hour before and off an hour after
the whites.

[Darth]

there is a pretty big thread here on how you don't need actinics, they are as I stated before for aesthetics.

http://www.wetwebmedia.com/marine/setup/lighting/actinicfaqs.htm

imo I would use the mh t5 combo but that's just me I am a big fan of mh

[Hookup]

Before reading: numbers are not exact, as I have forgotten the specific details of the various studies I looked at... which most can be found on Advanced Aquarist Online.

I could dig up some old photos, but the studies that have been done, which are limited, show that there is a peak in Zoox performance for light at 600nm and 420nm, with the higher peak at the 420nm range!

The energy transferred in a 600nm photon is more than a 420nm photon.

This means that the specific zoox from the coral studied had better production of energy (sugars) from photosynthesis using the 420nm light than the 600nm light.  HOWEVER, it takes more photos of 420nm to trigger the electron transfer chain than it does of the 600nm photons.

A PAR meter, measuring photons, will not distinguish wavelengths, just volume of photons per time-interval.

Assuming that 500par is the measured output, and that the bulb setup produces an even distribution of photos from 600nm range and the 420nm rage, and saturation of the ETC is not reached, the coral will have a better response from 600nm lights because the photos are more "powerful" (more energy).

On this set of ideas we can build a theory, that supports the observation about actinics just being for looks, more so when you combine this info with the fact that phosphorescent materials are more common in the blue-green spectrum which actincs produce so that the hobbiest can "see" that actincs make things look nice...

However, if we look at the science, we realize that if we had 500 PAR of 600nm photons, it would take 1000 PAR of 420nm photons to produce the same amount of sugar/energy in the coral, assuming that 420nm photos were 1/2 as "powerful" as 600nm photons (which i have no idea what the ratio actually is, but it's easy to use 1:2 for illustration).

So growth could easily be achieved with either 420nm photons (Actincs) or 10k bulbs (600nm) for the specific ZooX studied.


the problem comes with applying that study to the corals in your tank.  It is well known (documented) that there are many stranis of zoox, some of which are regonally specific, others are more globally distributed.  When looking at any specific coral, it is impossible to know (without science stuff) what zoox are inside driving it.... even two corals from the same area of the ocean from the same faimly, even from the origional mother colony might have different zoox driving them... and we do not know what the photo-absorbsion is of all zoox...

So we are left with the fact that we cannot know what will product more growth because we do not know what zoox are in the corals we have, and even if we did, we do not knwo what part of the spectrum gets the zoox we have in our system going the best...

What we do know is that from the species studied, (there actually were a few) a common peak around 420-440nm was seen and a similar peak in the 600nm range was observed.  We also know that 420nm light is not as "energized" for the ETC in some cases and therefore requires more PAR of that wavelength to do the same as 600nm spectrum light.

So, basically, throw a bunch of 420 and 600nm light on your tank, it's all good.  $ for growth, it's easier to get growth from 600nm light (as per the hand-full of studied zoox).

[az]

half white light, half blue light, good flow, good supplements and regular waterchange, and it will grow for sure.

make sure whites are running for 7 - 8 hours, blues 1 hour extra.

[beertech]

keep an eye on your water parameters, maintain proper Alk,calcium, Iodine etc.. keep phosphates under control, they can inhibit calcification (skeletal growth) if they are too high.

[Bob P]

I think looking for growth in a marine tank
is like watching the hour hand on a clock.
If you stare at it, you can't see it move,
but look away for a while, and whaddaya know,
it's moved. It's just a slow process really.

[Bob P]

Pulled out a soft cover book I've had since I
got into this salty stuff. Called Marine Reef
Aquarium Handbook. By a Dr. Goldstein.
I find it very good fore explaining everything
firstly from a technical view, then in simple
terms for some of us. Basically, he comments that
the red and yellow end of the spectrum is absorbed
within the first 40 feet of seawater. The light that reaches
deeper is 420nm blue end of spectrum. Many corals grow below 40 feet.
Yes, reef crest types like acro's etc need more full spectrum light
hence M.H. lights. Studies have shown that some corals not receiving
enough light in this range tend to eject certain colored pigments. Anyone notice
their corals turning to a tan colour? I have..
That being said, 420 bulbs are on the market for a reason, why not use them?
Even as a supplement to M.H. if you prefer that route. Pretty cheap insurance IMO.
Too much M.H. can actually "sunburn" in the UVA UVB range.
I've a neon green candycane that has grown from 5 heads to 50 or so. And lots of other
corals doing the same. I can see the stress in it in just 6 inches difference in depth.
If I move it up to the top, It will start shrinking and becoming less "green".
At the middle of the tank, it's awesome. The water flow is the same in both places
so I'm sure it's light.

[Darth]

while I would agree most coral issues are light related I use metal halide and run 2 65w pc actinics (the actinics for no other reason then I always have) yet this would not explain why a coral such as my torch  at the same height in the tank, why 1 and half heads would die off, while the other thrives. So in this instance I would tend to believe this is not a light issue, and I do agree corals can get "sunburned" and even "squint" for a few days when changing lights or bringing them home. I personally have not expieremented with or without actinics, I just searched wwm and this is what I found now coming from calfo site (which some believe to be a god in the hobby" I don't have anything to say differently. I cannot afford to take a chance and not run the lights the way I always have, if it ain't broken don't fix it. I would love to hear from someone who has experiemented with and without actincs on the same tank with the same coral and see if there was a difference overall, or in just certain corals. this would be beneficial to make sure we keep the right light for what we keep.

As far as things being on the market for a reason LOL that is not the best argument, have you seen some of the "as seen on tv" things that are supposed to make cleaning and cooking easier, when all they do is help lighten our wallets faster

[Darth]

I would be interested in that, worse part is we (or who was ever going to do it) would need a base to really tell if it stunts or improves or has no effect. Now I know for me, I can't tell you how faSt my corals grow (or dont) so this is going to take some time

as per your george foreman grill I would not hang it above my tank either but my point being the same, just becuase it's available does not mean we need it

[Hookup]

Some additional information and follow-up articles for those with too much time.

http://www.advancedaquarist.com/2008/12/aafeature1

Note observations that red-light (10k bulbs) inhibit growth.

[10gnano]

well that is wild

[JetJumper]

"Results from further experiments would suggest that red light generated by light-emitting diodes (LEDs) can induce coral bleaching."

Very Interesting.  I guess all the people on RC that are swapping some Cree RB for the Red version should read this.  They may not like the results they are going to get.

[Hookup]

The Red-Light theory is one that I personally subscribe too and the above article follows my thinking 100%.  I've read some additional articles on this subject...

http://www.advancedaquarist.com/2009/5/aafeature
http://www.springerlink.com/content/l6w112j6p8kh1g07/?p=93c049baa3574836a160f8fe846c78f0&pi=0