Do's and Don't of cycling a tank?

[Littorina]

Hope no one is sick of me yet!!!

  Two questions about tank cycling.....and perhaps the answers will vary depending on whether  you are starting with live rock, or with marco rock?  (personally, I want to try just marco rock, but we'll see)....

1)  Can you have your skimmer going at the start and throughout the cycling process?  This way, it could be broken in BEFORE you really need it.
         I've been reading contradicting views on this - some say YES, it's the dirtiest part of your tanks' life, so why not help it along....others say NO, it takes away excess nutrients that would otherwise be used by your growing bacterial colonies and taking those nutrients away will cause a weaker biofilm and/or slow down the cycling process.

2)  Do you leave your LED's OFF during the entire cycling process?  Or leave them off for the first week, then slowly increase their daily ON time over the course of the rest of the cycle?  Again, read opposing views on this....some say lights ON can encourage algae blooms......personally, I'm thinking along the same lines.  Doesn't seem to be a reason to turn lights on during cycling, as there is nothing in there that needs light, but....some people are still saying YES, turn them on....

And as mentioned above, do the answers to these 2 questions depend on whether you are using marco rock or live rock?

Thanks!

[Darth]

macro rock there is nothing on it to die off, so you need some sort of biological source to start the cycle, such as piece of shrimp. just cut a small piece and let it rot so to speak, or you can get a small piece of live rock to help seed the tank. You don't ever need a light unless you have corals, a light on the tank is just for asthetics for those viewing unless you have photosynthetic coral. I personally ran my skimmer from day one. So if you are using macro rock, IMO stock slowly as you need to build up bacteria to handle the bio load. Hope this helps a bit, I am sure others will chime in

[az]

these days the more you read(even ask) the more confused you will get.

I do like Darths recommendations of adding one or two pc of live rock on top of marco to seed it and stocking very slowly.

[AdamN]

I ran my skimmer during cycling, but it never pulled anything out until the 4th week. I cycled with live rock, and I left my lights on through the entire cycle as I wanted to see what would be growing on my rock before i stocked my tank. I turned them off once for 2 days during the cycle to help kill off a diatom bloom. Darth pretty much covered the rest.

[Littorina]

Thanks for the info!

  Az, you hit the nail RIGHT on the head!  The more I read, the more confused I become!  A few times now, I figured I knew exactly what I wanted/needed to do, then I'd read something else, or talk to someone else who has a different opinion, and BAM, I'm second-guessing all over again.....!

       I knew about having to seed marco rock - I was considering either doing a dead shrimp cycle, or else trying the bottled bacteria that you can get (though split opinions on this too; some say the bottled bacteria doesn't work, others say it does).....but when the time comes, maybe I will put some pieces of live rock with the marco instead....I was just worried about potential hitchhikers with live rock. 

[Stussi613]

The key with seeding using live rock is to get the rock from someone you know who's system you are able to see and make sure they aren't infested with aiptaisia, or majanos or bubble algae etc that will end up on your Marco rock, which would sort of defeat the purpose of using dry rock in the first place.

[Greatwhite]

Yeah.. Pretty much no matter who you ask, you'll get a different opinion.  And that's really all they can give you is their opinion, shrouded in "facts" that they read off someone else's opinion.  I once looked to an "expert" for advice until he completely berated someone for asking a "silly" question... My issue with that was that he kept putting FACT into every sentence.  Like: FACT, beneficial bacteria comes from rotting organic matter.  FACT, the light cycle helps the beneficial bacteria grow. FACT, 90% of his facts may or may not have been BS.

When I cycled my tank, I had some live rock that had lots of rotting organic waste on it.  It also had lots of fun hitch hikers, which actually helped keep the excitement up while I waited to put fish in.  Because I had so much organic stuff rotting off,  I ran circulation pumps and my skimmer - and I skimmed out a lot of nastiness. 

In my opinion, it is better to mimic the tank's future schedule.  I felt that if the tank was dark all the time, and things balanced out while dark, when I finally turned on the lights, I'd have a crazy algae bloom.

At night, after lights out, I was at my tank for HOURS watching the rocks for hitchers... I found some very neat crabs that way.

Given the smaller size of your planned tank, there's less chance of finding hitchers as if you were loading with 100lbs of rock... but it's still more fun than looking at "cement".  You will probably want to get a small (very porous) piece of live rock if you do go with Marco rock from someone with lots of copepods & stuff once things have settled...  I don't know how else to introduce them to your tank.

[Littorina]

One more thing......(it's a very naive question, but I need to ask)

Do you do consistent, small water changes during the the initial tank cycle (say, once a week, at 10%), OR only do them if your water parameters go through the roof, OR NO water changes at ALL until cycle has completed? 

And to clarify, I would be putting in orobably 15-20 lbs of marco rock, and then maybe 1 or 2 pieces of live rock to seed (as per everyone's suggestion).....

Thanks!   

[Greatwhite]

I might be wrong - but water changes may be one of the things NOT to do during the cycle.  You should expect to see high levels of nitrate, ammonia, etc near the start of the cycle.  That will then balance out and you can start doing 10% weekly water changes after that.

It's been a while since I started from scratch, and I've never done a small tank.  'Rules' may be different for them...

[Littorina]

Hi Great White!

     Good, that's what I was presuming as well, but I wanted to verify!  Thanks  :-)

[Salt]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ttR-RO7nXUE

New York Steelo has some incredibly informative videos.  Worth checking out.

[Littorina]

That was a great video Salt, thanks!  :-)


Back to the live rock for a sec.....Stuart, you mentioned getting live rock from someone where you can see their tank and know the rock isn't infested......I was just going to buy a few pieces from one of our speciality LFS's.........do you take a bigger chance buying the live rock from a LFS? 

[Greatwhite]

Back to the live rock for a sec.....Stuart, you mentioned getting live rock from someone where you can see their tank and know the rock isn't infested......I was just going to buy a few pieces from one of our speciality LFS's.........do you take a bigger chance buying the live rock from a LFS? 

Every piece of rock in my tank has been scoured over for around 8+ years, and is pest free.  Usually, pieces of rock in a bin at an LFS came out of a box, and was put in a bin of water with a powerhead.  Many times, I don't even see a heater in the bin, so whatever life that is on the rock (copepods/etc) may not be as abundant as you'd get some someone's system.

Stuart's suggestion would prevent possible pests and hitch hikers from getting into your system.

[Littorina]

So you're saying I have to start buttering up forum members so I can beg some live rock off of someone when I'll need it?  If my burner element ever comes in for my oven, I can make chocolate chip cookies for that lucky person........ 

[az]

indo premium has hitchikers like mantis & red eye crab, all other rock comes in pest free.  you can get stuff like aiptasia etc from other hobbyists too, sometimes you will get it even u did everything, best is to know what to do in case you get it.

[Littorina]

Yep, potenial hitchhikers are why I was scared and thought about doing only marco rock to begin......but many of you are strongly recommending to seed with at least SOME live rock with the marco....

I read that aiptasia are easy to pick out manually.  True?
I'll expand my reading about hitchhiker remedies then......

[Greatwhite]

indo premium has hitchikers like mantis & red eye crab, all other rock comes in pest free.  you can get stuff like aiptasia etc from other hobbyists too, sometimes you will get it even u did everything, best is to know what to do in case you get it.

Very true.  I was going to point out that many hobbiests are plagued with other pests like flatworms, aptasia, etc for sure.  That's why Stuart suggested looking at the system before accepting a piece of rock.  Of course, sometimes beggars can't be choosers. 

Personally, I enjoy getting hitch hikers... To a point.   I've been known to buy some fresh indo rock to add to my tank to increase the diversity of life in my system.

I read that aiptasia are easy to pick out manually.  True?

Aptasia is somewhat easy to deal with if you catch it early.  If you don't catch it early, or attempt to remove it "incorrectly" it can spread quickly.

[az]

you cant peel, pluck, cut, remove, piledrive , drill, dip aiptasia......

if hitch hiker is the reason you are going with marco i think you should look into fiji or tonga rock, no hitchhiker and will work 1000 times better than marco. no worries.

[Littorina]

     Ooooh, I got mixed up; I thought aiptasia were the tiny little white starfish people sometimes get in their tanks!  Wondered why you said they were so hard to get rid of - so  I just googled them!  Saw a guy on youtube take his live rock out with the aiptasia on it and kill them with a blowtorch!!!!! 

     I've read good things about the Fiji rock!  Say it's very lightweight and porus.....that was the live rock I had in mind actually - to add to marco for seeding......do you carry it Az?  Is it much more expensive than marco rock?  Again, looking at a tank between 18 g - 30 gallon, so not a lot of rock needed....

     Besides worrying about hitchhikers, I figured marco rock would be great to start because I could take my time deciding on my aquascaping before I added water, and then could possibly epoxy or spray foam pieces together and let them dry......I figured you'd have less time to play around with live rock. 

[Littorina]

Did I do a forum faux-pas by asking about it in this thread?  Sorry