Shrimp Advice

Jeff1192 · August 02, 2014, 12:57:24 PM

A few months ago I started a shrimp only tank. It's a Fluval Ebi with the stock equipment. It is fairly heavily planted with low light plants and I seeded the filter with used media from another filter.

I initially stocked it with about 20 cherry shrimp, 3 amano shrimp and 8 crystal red shrimp. Everything went fine for a while. After about a month I started getting completely random die off. Things would be fine for days and then I'd find a dead shrimp, sometimes a CRS sometimes a RCS. I started noticing babies of both varieties but the crystal babies never matured. This went on for a few months. I was doing appox 20% water chage every 5 days.

I now have about 20 cherry shrimp still and only 2 crystal shrimp. The amano are all still there. Anyone have any ideas? I know they're very sensitive to nitrates but I'm confident that my nitrates were very low, if not zero with all the plants and water changes. There was no pattern to the die offs that I could detect. I haven't noticed any deaths for at least a few weeks now. Before looking at restocking I wanted to make sure that there wasn't something I was missing.

Thanks

Jeff

Shawn84 · August 02, 2014, 09:10:52 PM

The one thing with keeping shrimp is that less is always more. Since shrimp don't produce any bio-load to your tank. Too much water change is not good. Try going for once a month 5% water change only do top up but even then used aged water. I used a drip system when I do water change in all my shrimps tank. CRS are more sensitive then RCS. If baby can't survived then it mean your water is not right. Also all those water change so quick is what I assumed killing your crystal baby.

Shawn

Jeff1192 · August 03, 2014, 08:58:21 AM

Thanks for the advice. The only idea I had was that it had something to do with my water changes to the point that I even bought a new bottle of prime in case there was something wrong with the one I was using. With my 90 gallon that I used to have I did huge VERY regular water changes and I guess I just assumed it was best here too.

Jeff

angelcraze · August 03, 2014, 05:29:56 PM

I've found that smaller water changes are better in smaller tanks as well. I am used to my 120g and 90g, then started a 4g. What a difference. Also, in smaller tanks, changes will happen more suddenly, shift in PH, temperature. The frequency of w/cs, imo, could remain the same however, just best to keep it consistent. You have a Fluval EBI...so no heater? I know your CRS would appreciate a lower temp.

Jeff1192 · August 03, 2014, 07:03:33 PM

Ya that's right no heater. It didn't come with one and after doing some reading I figured I was actually best without one.

Thanks

Jeff

Jeff1192 · August 11, 2014, 12:27:34 PM

Does anyone who keeps shrimp bother with a TDS meter? I use tap water right now conditioned with Prime. I did some parameter tests today and had the following from test strips (which I know aren't the greatest but I find the solution test kits tedious and not much better); GH closer to zero than 30, KH closer to zero than 40, pH of 6-6.5, NO2 of 0 and NO3 closer to zero than 20.

Thanks

Jeff

charlie · August 11, 2014, 01:05:30 PM

Quote from: Jeff1192 on August 11, 2014, 12:27:34 PM
Does anyone who keeps shrimp bother with a TDS meter? I use tap water right now conditioned with Prime. I did some parameter tests today and had the following from test strips (which I know aren't the greatest but I find the solution test kits tedious and not much better); GH closer to zero than 30, KH closer to zero than 40, pH of 6-6.5, NO2 of 0 and NO3 closer to zero than 20.

Thanks

Jeff

I`m by no means a hard core shrimp hobbyist

, but can offer my hands on experience with my 15 gln dedicated CRS tank.
I have found that trying to stick to the recommended parameters can be a dog catching it`s tail syndrome, let me say now - I have no doubt in my mind that if you are a breeder striving for that perfect thousand or million dollar shrimp it maybe worth your time & effort, but for the folks like me that just want to enjoy the little creatures & have them multiply if they feel like it , don`t waste your time, the shrimps will be fine.
My tank has been running for a few years now with the same low quality ( according to some) fluval substrate with whatever the PH is as well as the GH & KH it settles at, the odd time I`ll check the TDS with a cheap TDS from Home Depot & find the TDS according to that unit to be close to 300, yet my little shrimp is happy & multiplying as they see fit.
I add some Seachem Equilibrium at my weekly or bi weekly 10% water change & that`s it.
Your mileage may differ & I`m not advocating this is the way to go, but sharing my hands on journey with the ones I keep.
Errol

exv152 · August 11, 2014, 01:10:41 PM

I use a TDS meter but I only keep RCS. The TDS meter is useful because I keep it under 200 ppm before I do a partial water change. I also have a 7.9g tank like yours and I change like 50% of the water every two weeks or when the TDS meter reads high. This works fine for me but again I only keep RCS because they're tough little guys. I can imagine CRS being a lot more sensitive. Which is why I don't keep 'em. I like to dose the occassional excel and ferts to help boost the plants so I can't be bothered with sensitive and expensive shrimp.

Jeff1192 · August 11, 2014, 09:14:13 PM

Thanks for the input guys. I'm not usually one that likes to play with water parameters either. I find it just leads to problems down the road. But I've been frustrated by the random losses I've been having and the fact that I lost the babies I did have in the tank. I'm going to greatly reduce my water changes and see what happens with things. I'm hoping the frequent water changes and the resulting fluctuating water parameters was the culprit.

Jeff

Shawn84 · August 11, 2014, 11:10:07 PM

Reduce your water change and if you really want to invest into something I would recommend investing into this "Betaglucan" I personally used it on all my shrimp tank and I find it greatly help maintaining my shrimp over all health. Also algae is your best friend in keeping shrimp

Shawn

Jeff1192 · August 12, 2014, 09:32:16 AM

Shawn,

Where did you get your betaglucan that you're using? I've been reading a bit about it this morning and it sounds interesting.

I also started dosing Bacter AE. It's a product recommended to my by Jason at Critter Jungle and when I did some reading about it, the reviews were great for helping survival rates of your shrimp and improving the health of adult shrimp.

Shawn84 · August 12, 2014, 10:04:46 AM

I got them from Tommy at shrimpfever

exv152 · August 12, 2014, 10:42:13 AM

Maybe CRS just need more space to successful breed and rear young, compared to RCS, a larger tank like 20g. This'll make for more stable water conditions too. As the guy in the link below suggests...

http://www.plantedtank.net/forums/showthread.php?t=25115

Shawn84 · August 12, 2014, 12:55:06 PM

From personal experience tank size is not crucial in keeping shrimp at lease in CRS it's about less is more. Keep shrimp is about touch less and do less. Substrate is key in helping maintain and successful breeding. Plenty of hiding spot and abundent source of natural food for both adult and shrimplet. The tank is heavily planted so in term of food I doubt that will be an issues. I have breed the OEBT(orange eye black tiger) in a 5g tank. These guy are much more sensitive then the CRS or the orange eye blue tiger. The key if you talk to any shrimp expert or advid shrimp keeper is alway less is more. Also I forgot to mention that the amano shrimp is pretty vicous in term of food competition and stressing other shrimp. I would recommend removing the amano to another tank and just keep the RCS and CRS together. Leave the tank alone for a month just do top-off with age water and feed sparingly here and there.

Shawn

charlie · August 12, 2014, 01:59:51 PM

Quote from: Jeff1192 on August 11, 2014, 09:14:13 PM
Thanks for the input guys. I'm not usually one that likes to play with water parameters either. I find it just leads to problems down the road. But I've been frustrated by the random losses I've been having and the fact that I lost the babies I did have in the tank. I'm going to greatly reduce my water changes and see what happens with things. I'm hoping the frequent water changes and the resulting fluctuating water parameters was the culprit.

Jeff

Jeff for what`s it worth, that is your source problem right there in my opinion.
Ottawa`s water is almost perfect for shrimp keeping as it is for plant growing, as mentioned the tank volume that you have is small & as such any large water changes as you mentioned will drastically swing all parameters.
I was once told by a prolific CRS breeder, stability is key for the young crawlers.
as to the much touted sensitivity of CRS, while that maybe so for the higher grades, I have proven it`s not so in the lower grades that I keep- how did I prove it - I have repeatedly taken CRS from my shrimp tank & place them in both my 79 gln & 25 Gln heavily dosed & co2 injected tanks up to a year later they were still surviving among Cardinals, SAE Loaches Pecos etc , striving -NO, these tanks get large co 2 doses & water changes.
I apply the same principal to my shrimp tanks I do with my planted tanks - one change at a time.
On another note I have seen the tanks of the prolific CRS breeder right here in Ottawa & it
they have blue & White epoxy coated gravel - go figure the substrate theory, small piece of drift wood with moss, our water is almost perfect for the lower grades CRS, no need for all the miracle portions.
bio films are a natural occurrence in aquariums, if we don`t swipe the glass panels constantly at the same time, there is more than enough to sustain a decent qty of shrimp, not to mention the moss is an excellent grazing source.
Again I`m no shrimp expert, but I find in general hobbyist tend to apply data across the board whether it`s applicable to an individual tank or not.
Feel free to pop by anytime to check the tank out & who knows you may leave with a few of my deprived CRS

Errol

charlie · August 12, 2014, 02:02:44 PM

Check the last picture up date here & and if you pop by you can compare May to now.
Errol

Jeff1192 · August 12, 2014, 03:37:03 PM

Thanks again for the advice guys. This is such an amazing community when you need advice. Errol I may take you up on that offer once I get the kiddies back to school and actually have free time again!

I'm working on getting the amano shrimp outta there. 1 down 3 to do. Man they're hard to catch in a heavily planted tank!

Jeff

charlie · August 12, 2014, 07:50:58 PM

Quote from: Jeff1192 on August 12, 2014, 03:37:03 PM
Thanks again for the advice guys. This is such an amazing community when you need advice. Errol I may take you up on that offer once I get the kiddies back to school and actually have free time again!

I'm working on getting the amano shrimp outta there. 1 down 3 to do. Man they're hard to catch in a heavily planted tank!

Jeff

Whenever you are ready Jeff.

Jeff1192 · August 25, 2014, 08:03:56 AM

Still not sure what's going on in my tank. My gH and kH are still close to zero, pH 6.5, No2 zero and NO3 is between 10-20.

I was away for 2 days and came home to 2 dead CRS. Including one that had been in the tank since day one. I am really at a loss at this point. The only other idea I had was could the heat have anything to do with it. Because I was not home my AC wasn't low and the house was warm. The tank got up to 80 degrees. Could the warm water be the problem. I don't leave my AC on most of the summer as I prefer having my windows open. I only turn the AC on when it gets really warm.

Should I maybe move this tank down to the basement in the summer?

Other than the heat I have no idea what is going on. I have the amanos all out, I have not been doing much in the way of water changes. Havent' done one since the 1st of August. There is no chance of contaminants having fallen in the tank. The shrimp all seem happy in the tank, active, searching around for algae. I never notice any behaviour problems before a death. I don't feed very often. Maybe 2 or 3 times a week. Is that maybe not enough?

Any ideas?

Thanks

Jeff

exv152 · August 25, 2014, 08:57:34 AM

When you say your pH goes down to 6, is that because your test kit can't read any lower, or are you using a wide range pH kit that can read lower than 6?

Jeff1192 · August 25, 2014, 09:24:34 AM

No the ph is stable. It's 6.5.

Jeff1192 · December 15, 2014, 01:08:06 PM

So I think I finally found the solution to the random deaths I was having. It was definitely heat related with the CRS but I think I had a second problem as well. I was getting quite a bit of biofilm on the surface of the tank and I think it was inhibiting oxygen exchange. A couple of months ago I raised the spray bar so that the surface of the tank was being agitated.

It has been a few months like this now. There is no more biofilm and I haven't lost a single shrimp that I have noticed. Keeping fingers crossed that I have found the solution. Unfortunately I have lost most of the CRS I had. I hadn't wanted to add more until I was sure I had found the problem.

Jeff