OVAS

Hey folks,
A couple of days ago something happened to make me wake up and realize a huge danger in our hobby.  I have never heard of anyone discuss this, though I am sure others must have realized this too.  My kids, viewing my tank, did what kids do, and sort of leaned up on the tanks - repeatedly despite in the end yelling at them NOT to do that.  In my mind I can see the hidden power bar & electrical outlet.  Hmmm... water, electricity... not good.

GFIs are used in kitchens, bathrooms, outdoor plugs, and anywhere water & electricity *might* meet.  Chances are that when your electrician was wiring your house he (she) didn't think that you might put an aquarium where you did, and thus did not install a GFI plug there.

Folks, think about it.  Disasters happen.  Ooopsies happen while doing water changes.  Tanks can also break for a bunch of reasons.  Your light hood could accidentally tip into the tank.  Other possibilities surely exist.  Knock on wood... most of us in the hobby are dangerously close to a life threatening situation.

The solution is cheap & could easily save your life.  Go buy a GFI plug at Home Depot and have it installed (if you don't have a clue, hire someone to do it for you). 

Today I am going out to buy several.  It is my top project in the hobby right now - not convenient; have to drain tanks and move furniture to access plugs.  My tip to you is to make it a top priority for you to do too.  It can save your life!

Agreed GFI's are a good thing as long as wired properly or they are more dangerous then a normal plug.  But for the record most if not all homes/apts are on breaker systems not the old fuse style which means once there is a short the breaker trips causing the power to stop right away.

Not saying you cant get hurt but realistically the amount of current you would get for the short period of time wouldnt hurt you.  I zap myself at least 3 times a month working on lights/switches and plugs.  Nice tingle but not life threatening.

Another thing to remember is that a properly installed GFCI receptacle will protect all the outlets past it on the same circuit. So, if you can't get to the receptacle your equipment is plugged into, you may be able to install the unit somewhere else on the circuit. That also means that if it ever does trip, you won't have to move things around to reset it after the problem has been fixed. There is also a GFCI breaker which you can install in your panel to protect an entire circuit. A little more pricey, but more coverage too.

Thanks for this, to be 100% clear anything on a breaker system is already protected correct?

Question: Why then do I still have GFI outlets (the ones with Test/Reset i think) in my bathroom when all my circuits are controlled by a breakers?

QuoteThanks for this, to be 100% clear anything on a breaker system is already protected correct?

Question: Why then do I still have GFI outlets (the ones with Test/Reset i think) in my bathroom when all my circuits are controlled by a breakers?

Breakers (in your basement box) protect the circuit from overload.  If you pull to many amps it'll trip.  ie. plug in every machine you own and your fuse will blow / trip.  Put your finger in the socket and the fuse too will blow / trip, because there is too much electricity flowing.  But by the time that happens you are probably already dead, well done, and smokin'.

In your bathroom, kitchen, outdoors (rain), you have those GFI plugs because they expect that you'll probably mix electricity & water.  So that you don't get killed the GFI works by detecting an imbalance of power, presuming a different electric path to ground (like through your body) and it trips.  It happens so fast that supposedly you only feel a little tingle. 

FWIW - I have been struck by lightning.  It is true.  Long story, don't feel like typing it out.

Quote from: HappyGuppy on January 24, 2011, 11:48:47 AM
.......FWIW - I have been struck by lightning..... 

Doesn't that improve your chances of winning a lottery?

Sorry, back on topic.

Quote from: Brent Shaver on January 24, 2011, 10:00:16 AM
Agreed GFI's are a good thing as long as wired properly or they are more dangerous then a normal plug.  But for the record most if not all homes/apts are on breaker systems not the old fuse style which means once there is a short the breaker trips causing the power to stop right away.

Not saying you cant get hurt but realistically the amount of current you would get for the short period of time wouldnt hurt you.  I zap myself at least 3 times a month working on lights/switches and plugs.  Nice tingle but not life threatening.

Not sure if I can agree on all of this. If it's a short that trips a breaker rather than an overload, you're talking about pretty much a dead short. When you touch a bare wire, the circuit is shorted by you providing a shorter path to ground. However, it's very likely not a perfect connection between you and the ground, so not really a dead short. I've taken some pretty good shocks in my time too, but I don't ever remember tripping a breaker in doing it.

QuoteGround fault interrupters are designed to protect from electrical shock by interrupting a household circuit when there is a difference in the currents in the "hot" and neutral wires. Such a difference indicates that an abnormal diversion of current from the "hot" wire is occuring. Such a current might be flowing in the ground wire, such as a leakage current from a motor or from capacitors. More importantly, that current diversion may be occuring because a person has come into contact with the "hot" wire and is being shocked. When a circuit is functioning normally, all the return current from an appliance flows through the neutral wire, so the presence of a difference between "hot" and neutral currents represents a malfunction which in some circumstances could produce a dangerous or even lethal shock hazard.

I have been shocked by 120v from the outlets several times (Not for anything more then 5 seconds...).. it is not pleasant but depending on the situation can / cannot kill you.  If you are standing in water then yes.. your odds are improved a lot.  The thing that really gets you is the 60Hz that is part of the AC line.  Think of a light bulb, its turning on and off 60 times a second.  Now think of your muscles contracting and relaxing 60 times a second.  Puts your muscles through a lot of stress. 

Lightning doesn't have the 60Hz like the AC lines.  Its completely different form of electricity in a sense.  I have built a tesla coil for a project once.  You can have the "lightning" from these touch your skin no problem, BUT MAKE SURE it never comes in contact with the primary coil that has a 60Hz feed .. or your .... dead.

In using a GFI I would suggest a Battery backup on a few key pumps.  I only say this because a lot of tanks I have been around have stray current in them.  You may not notice it because its pretty low but a GFI could trip this and you not notice for a bit.  If you have a battery backup on there it will keep something running for a bit and also serve as an alarm since they beep like crazy when there is no power. 

Quote from: JetJumper on January 24, 2011, 12:40:12 PM
.... In using a GFI I would suggest a Battery backup on a few key pumps.  I only say this because a lot of tanks I have been around have stray current in them.  You may not notice it because its pretty low but a GFI could trip this and you not notice for a bit.  If you have a battery backup on there it will keep something running for a bit and also serve as an alarm since they beep like crazy when there is no power. 

Excellent point. That's why I initially hesitated about GFCI receptacles in the fishroom. Common sense has since overridden my dumb-thinking, thankfully.

Quote from: Saltcreep on January 24, 2011, 12:16:27 PM
Not sure if I can agree on all of this. If it's a short that trips a breaker rather than an overload, you're talking about pretty much a dead short. When you touch a bare wire, the circuit is shorted by you providing a shorter path to ground. However, it's very likely not a perfect connection between you and the ground, so not really a dead short. I've taken some pretty good shocks in my time too, but I don't ever remember tripping a breaker in doing it.

In order to trip a breaker you need to have something drawing more power then what that breaker is rated at.  15A typically.  Plug a heater and a hair dryer into the same cuircut and bam you tripped it.  Cross the leads together on an outlet, bam you blew it.  The item you use to short out the line is your load.  Since there is no electronics / resistors on a fork, it will try to draw what ever it can until it melts.  Thats when the breaker comes in and says.. Hey, your fork is drawing more then I will let it.. and shuts off. :)

Quote from: JetJumper on January 24, 2011, 12:47:55 PM
In order to trip a breaker you need to have something drawing more power then what that breaker is rated at.  15A typically.  Plug a heater and a hair dryer into the same cuircut and bam you tripped it.  Cross the leads together on an outlet, bam you blew it.  The item you use to short out the line is your load.  Since there is no electronics / resistors on a fork, it will try to draw what ever it can until it melts.  Thats when the breaker comes in and says.. Hey, your fork is drawing more then I will let it.. and shuts off. :)

I think that's what I was trying to say. If you grab a hot wire when you are grounded to any degree, a GFCI will trip, but at 15A breaker would not.

Quote from: Saltcreep on January 24, 2011, 12:55:52 PM
I think that's what I was trying to say. If you grab a hot wire when you are grounded to any degree, a GFCI will trip, but at 15A breaker would not.

Pretty much..

TIP:  for those who don't feel like changing the outlet in the wall, this item can be very convenient (this is what I use):

http://www.rona.ca/shop/~powerbar-4-outlets-woods-169540_!gfci_shop
(https://www.ovas.ca/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.rona.ca%2Fimg%2Fproduct%2Ffull%2F4025116.jpg&hash=17a12cf9df1ab0fdd8339288b458a3e065a525a2)

I think this should be moved to DIY/Equipment.

This story applies to Saltwater tanks just as much (if not more) than Freshwater  :P

Quote from: magnosis on January 24, 2011, 01:25:54 PM
I think this should be moved to DIY/Equipment.

This story applies to Saltwater tanks just as much (if not more) than Freshwater  :P

A) Don't fully understand why it should be moved, but ok.

B) Yes, it was the scare with my brackish tank that woke me up to the potential  Salty water, regardless of concentration (full marine or tiny bit brackish, but even fresh water aquariums have traces) is an excellent conductor of electricity.  I certainly don't want to be standing in a puddle from my aquarium, with drenched power cables.

Quote from: HappyGuppy on January 24, 2011, 03:46:15 PM
A) Don't fully understand why it should be moved, but ok.

Just a suggestion  :P  For the SW folks that don't read the FW threads.

So I went to HomeDepot last night and picked up a few of these.  I learned something valuable, that in my mind has a few good implications.

You can install a GFI outlet that will protect the entire circuit.  The trick is to figure out which is the FIRST outlet in your loop, and replace that one.  This way you only need one outlet for all the aquariums you have in that room (on a loop).  This also means that you don't have to replace the outlet immediately next to the tank - which is good because I thought I'd have to drain tanks and move furniture around, but now know that I don't.  Also this saves money as you don't need to have an outlet for each tank (on the same loop).

A word of caution... if you decide to DIY be sure that you really reallly REEEEEEALLY know what you are doing, and that you did it right.  If you set it up wrong you could have a FALSE sense of security.  Once it is installed, push the test button, and all the hardware on your aquarium should stop (no power).  If you are not a DIY person, or have no idea how to do this then call a handyman, preferably a professional (or at least a confident friend).

I believe that everyone with aquariums should spend the $17 for one (or multiples if you have tanks throughout the house) ESPECIALLY IF YOU HAVE KIDS.  Why do we have insurance?  Hopefully we never get a car accident, our homes burn down, or other scary things... and it is a good thing when our insurance premiums turn out to have been a waste of money... but those rare times something bad happens then we are glad to have had the insurance.  Get yourself insured for just a few bucks and get the GFI plugs.

Over the next couple of days I will have all my plugs installed, and then will feel at ease again enjoying the tanks, particularly with the kids.

Quote from: HappyGuppy on January 25, 2011, 10:24:56 AM
So I went to HomeDepot last night and picked up a few of these.  I learned something valuable, that in my mind has a few good implications.

You can install a GFI outlet that will protect the entire circuit.  The trick is to figure out which is the FIRST outlet in your loop, and replace that one.  This way you only need one outlet for all the aquariums you have in that room (on a loop).  This also means that you don't have to replace the outlet immediately next to the tank - which is good because I thought I'd have to drain tanks and move furniture around, but now know that I don't.  Also this saves money as you don't need to have an outlet for each tank (on the same loop).

A word of caution... if you decide to DIY be sure that you really reallly REEEEEEALLY know what you are doing, and that you did it right.  If you set it up wrong you could have a FALSE sense of security.  Once it is installed, push the test button, and all the hardware on your aquarium should stop (no power).  If you are not a DIY person, or have no idea how to do this then call a handyman, preferably a professional (or at least a confident friend).

I believe that everyone with aquariums should spend the $17 for one (or multiples if you have tanks throughout the house) ESPECIALLY IF YOU HAVE KIDS.  Why do we have insurance?  Hopefully we never get a car accident, our homes burn down, or other scary things... and it is a good thing when our insurance premiums turn out to have been a waste of money... but those rare times something bad happens then we are glad to have had the insurance.  Get yourself insured for just a few bucks and get the GFI plugs.

Over the next couple of days I will have all my plugs installed, and then will feel at ease again enjoying the tanks, particularly with the kids.

It is really a very simple RE & RE. Just make sure you flip the correct breaker and then connect the GFCI duplex outlet exactly as the existing one was installed, assuming that it was done correctly. You will connect the black (hot) wire to the brass screw, the white (neutral) wire to the silver screw and the bare copper ground to the green screw. I haven't looked at one in while, but you may not even need to use the screw terminals. Most outlets have a little opening where you just push the stripped wire into a hole and it locks in place. Five-minute job, maybe. You'll have to do your own investigation to determine which outlet is the first on your circuit. If you got a price of $17 for one GFCI duplex outlet, you may want to check out the price for the panel breaker. It will be a bit more expensive but the install is actually easier than the individual outlet type.

Quote from: Saltcreep on January 25, 2011, 02:10:42 PM
It is really a very simple RE & RE. Just make sure you flip the correct breaker and then connect the GFCI duplex outlet exactly as the existing one was installed, assuming that it was done correctly. You will connect the black (hot) wire to the brass screw, the white (neutral) wire to the silver screw and the bare copper ground to the green screw. I haven't looked at one in while, but you may not even need to use the screw terminals. Most outlets have a little opening where you just push the stripped wire into a hole and it locks in place. Five-minute job, maybe. You'll have to do your own investigation to determine which outlet is the first on your circuit. If you got a price of $17 for one GFCI duplex outlet, you may want to check out the price for the panel breaker. It will be a bit more expensive but the install is actually easier than the individual outlet type.

Or if your crazy like I am, change the plugs while the feed is hot ;)  hahaha.. ************** I DO NOT RECOMMEND THIS METHOD!!!!!!!! ***************

Quote from: JetJumper on January 25, 2011, 02:16:40 PM
Or if your crazy like I am, change the plugs while the feed is hot ;)  hahaha.. ************** I DO NOT RECOMMEND THIS METHOD!!!!!!!! ***************

I do that all the time, too lazy to go to the breaker box.  At least 3 out of ten times I end up at the breaker anyway as I arced the screwdriver and blew it.  lol

Quote from: JetJumper on January 25, 2011, 02:16:40 PM
Or if your crazy like I am, change the plugs while the feed is hot ;)  hahaha.. ************** I DO NOT RECOMMEND THIS METHOD!!!!!!!! ***************

Scary thing is I know quite a few electricians and this is common practice with them when they're just changing an outlet or lighting fixture. You sure don't want to get caught by the 'labour' boys when you're doing it though. They don't look too kindly on this type of infraction.

So I installed two of the three outlets.   The tricky part is figuring out which outlet is the first one in the series to swap out.

Both of my kids tanks are now protected.  I am happy that as a side bonus all the outlets in the kid's play room are now protected too.  When my wife comes back I'm finishing the basement loop covering my two biggest tanks... and then I'll be safe.

Having done it I can say that it is actually fairly easy to do.  Highly recommended for everyone to have done (DIY or by handyman/electrician best).

But PLEASE turn off the power :P my dad and father in law do it all the time without turning off the power, and like Brent, end up at the breaker panel anyways :P just turn it off unless you LIKE to be zapped!!

This is a good topic!!

I am pleased to proclaim that all my tanks are now protected. 

Before, when I was IGNORANT of the danger I enjoyed my tanks.
When I realized the danger, I minimized contact with my tanks.
Now that I have GFCI protected outlets I enjoy my tanks again like I used to.

<snip>

Please forgive the allcaps, as yes I am shouting, but in a good way...

FOLKS, PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE HAVE GFCI OUTLETS INSTALLED WHEREVER YOU HAVE AQUARIUMS.  ESPECIALLY ESPECIALLY ESPECIALLY IF YOU HAVE KIDS.  Even if you don't have kids, don't you still value your own life?  Hopefully in the end this will have been an minor expense that is never utilized (like insurance)... but for the few of us that might have a catastrophic tank accident (who knows if it won't be you!) this can something that you'll come to kiss those little outlets for saving your life.

I must be really crazy for building one of these and letting it zap me then..
(https://www.ovas.ca/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Ffarm1.static.flickr.com%2F42%2F98272227_4f6f848bd4.jpg&hash=97378860fc60c31183c74ff4dfbdba78f3edcddb)
;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D

PS:  this one is not mine specifically, but mine was very similar.

Quote from: JetJumper on January 26, 2011, 08:01:30 PM
I must be really crazy for building one of these and letting it zap me then..
(https://www.ovas.ca/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Ffarm1.static.flickr.com%2F42%2F98272227_4f6f848bd4.jpg&hash=97378860fc60c31183c74ff4dfbdba78f3edcddb)
;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D

PS:  this one is not mine specifically, but mine was very similar.

Cool pic. would that cause the worms to come up out of the ground?

Quote from: HappyGuppy on January 25, 2011, 10:24:56 AM
So I went to HomeDepot last night and picked up a few of these.  I learned something valuable, that in my mind has a few good implications.

You can install a GFI outlet that will protect the entire circuit.  The trick is to figure out which is the FIRST outlet in your loop, and replace that one.  This way you only need one outlet for all the aquariums you have in that room (on a loop).  This also means that you don't have to replace the outlet immediately next to the tank - which is good because I thought I'd have to drain tanks and move furniture around, but now know that I don't.  Also this saves money as you don't need to have an outlet for each tank (on the same loop)......

Hmmm, now where did I hear that before? Oh, yeah, up just a few posts. ???

Brent, I didn't mean for you to be offended, nor was I calling anyone stupid.  When I used to do construction I saw guys doing that all the time, and even a guy who I worked with.  I mean for anyone *reading* this post, presumably not professional electricians, to be sure to do the smart thing (aka opposite of stupid) by turning off the breaker in the basement.  For most people, again NOT professionals, who do any electrical stuff in their homes, the AMATEURS, I would consider *THEM* stupid for ignoring such a basic warning.

So please... let go of any offense that you might have taken.  Sometimes typed words don't convey non-verbal cues that change meaning, and laziness prevents us from typing everything we really mean in our hearts.

I will not take offense to the comments that I perceive that you have deliberately implied of me being stupid.  I did mention earlier that if you (the forum reader) doesn't know what to do then to get a competent person to do it for them.  You're right, do it wrong and all sorts of problems can happen, but this is not rocket science either.  Oh and I'll admit that this time I only used green painter tape to secure the breaker switch, not that anyone in my household would have accidentally switched it back anyhow.  Again, I'll simply ignore your direct implication of calling me stupid.

If you have anything further to add to the conversation then please add something constructive (pun intended) to help anyone reading this know what their options are.  I am not into flames, I posted this because I truly believed that it is useful information and that I am contributing something worthwhile to fellow hobbyists.  I will ignore any further comments of "stupid" as I meant absolutely no offense.

It is the word stupid that got to me, it is one of those words that rarely get a positive responce.  Your explaination was more then sufficent and I deleted my reply.

Brent, I am truly sorry that any of this stuff happened.  Perhaps the lesson I shall walk away with is to be a bit more careful of my choice in words... or to elaborate upon things for clarity.

As I just wrote in http://ovas.ca/index.php?topic=48490.0  I would rather have friends than enemies in our small community.  It is my intention to A) someday meet you, and B) for us to mutually like each other.

In the end I like to share my thoughts, which I hope contribute to the community of fellow hobbyists, in these kinds of forum posts.  If you look back on my history of posts you'll see that that is my aspiration - to be helpful.

I hope that we can put today's experience behind us, and to forget about it in any future interactions. 

Please feel free to delete this and my previous post above, if you feel that it would be beneficial to be gone.  I'm going to edit the inflammatory post by removing the paragraph with the word stupid in it.

Murphy's Law prevails!

I was doing WC tonight in one of my 40G breeder tank.  I was removing the sponge of  the Aquaclear 110 located at the back.  Without warning, some water dripped out of the sponge and landed in the power bar receptacles.  The GFCI tripped right away :) 

Thanks God for GFCI!  I've had them installed years ago and this is the first time it actually tripped for real.  Of course, I do test them every few months or so to make sure it works...

Quote from: FishBuddy on January 26, 2011, 09:45:31 PM
Murphy's Law prevails!

I was doing WC tonight in one of my 40G breeder tank.  I was removing the sponge of  the Aquaclear 110 located at the back.  Without warning, some water dripped out of the sponge and landed in the power bar receptacles.  The GFCI tripped right away :) 

Thanks God for GFCI!  I've had them installed years ago and this is the first time it actually tripped for real.  Of course, I do test them every few months or so to make sure it works...

Well thank goodness you had it!  Over the past hour I pondered alternate scenarios of how an aquarium might interact with electricity, without necessarily the tank actually breaking.  Your situation also proved that point.   I am not sure how absolutely dangerous all possible scenarios might actually be.  Someone pointed out that the circuit would complete in the water and blow out the fuse / trip the switch, in the basement.  I'm sure that there must me scenarios that would be non-fatal, and even nothing negative, however I am certain that there must be specific situations, that are possible to occur, that would be fatal to a human, which the GFI would protect against.  Think about it.  We have to have them in bathrooms, kitchens, outdoors, and other places where there is the chance of water mixing with electricity.  Who knows & who cares what the exact circumstance might be for you.  Maybe you kick over a water change bucket or did something like FishBuddy did.  There are many other possibilities.  The way I look at it, with a fuse/breaker combined with a GFI, all properly installed, I believe that it minimizes the chances for something seriously negative to happen.  It doesn't eliminate all risks, but at least it can make one feel safer.

As a parent I also feel a bit safer as a side benefit knowing that I have a bunch of outlets (not all, I didn't do my entire house), particularly in the play room, are protected by the GFI.  Who knows what might cross the mind of a child.  I didn't realize the possibility of using them this way before.  I remember how a single GFCI protected multiple bathroom outlets, and kitchens too, but in my mind I never thought that it applied outside of those areas.  I just never thought much about them before.  Now I praise the inventors!

I know that I do feel safer having my extra three GFIs installed. I hope that nothing ever happens, but as FishBuddy pointed out, it can happen to anyone in an unexpected way.

Just thought I'd chime in with an alternate solution to changing the breaker or the receptacle in the wall -This one works for the renters.

I had an electrician friend put a GFCI receptacle in a box (like the one in the wall), wire a short length of cord & a plug. This gives me a 2-outlet power bar that's GFCI-protected.
I'll use a plastic (outdoor) box on any new GFCI-bars I make.

(https://www.ovas.ca/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi39.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fe178%2Ffire622%2FGFCI%2FGFCI-2.jpg&hash=f987df76487121b3d7e4dffc0e32cf64db482349)

(https://www.ovas.ca/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi39.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fe178%2Ffire622%2FGFCI%2FGFCI-1.jpg&hash=65051f696fd3cd1e06be8a6983add00f31cb8cf3)

I had a return pump (Mag 7 to be exact) in the sump crack while I was at work. The GFCI tripped. I had no idea that there was a problem, but all my equipment wasn't working when I got home. Took a while to figure out what had happened but the house didn't burn down nor did I electrocute any fish. This was on a SW tank.

The neighbour's FW tank didn't have GFCI & while they were away a hose broke loose from a pump & sprayed water on a power bar. The power bar melted and the wood tank stand was scorched before it tripped.

I'm now an advocate of the GFCI for all fish/aquarium applications!

Quote from: FishBuddy on January 26, 2011, 09:45:31 PM... some water dripped out of the sponge and landed in the power bar receptacles...

Though I wholeheartedly agree that GFCI is the way to go, there is another super-simple, often-overlooked water-electricity-safety rule involving DRIP LOOPS.

First, raise your electrical plugs off the ground. Personally I drape my cords over a cross-beam under my tank stand, so the plugin is suspended off the ground. Another option is to screw-mount a powerbar under your stand, off the ground. Note the outlet is under the stand to reduce the chance of direct spray...

Next, make sure that ANY electrical wire coming under your tank goes DOWN before it goes UP to the plug. This makes it so that any water that dribbles onto your cord/canopy/heater/whatever, it does NOT find its way to the electrical outlet. The same rule goes for plugging anything into the wall outlet. Make sure the cord goes down before up!

Here is a random google image:(https://www.ovas.ca/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fangelodecor.com%2Fimg%2F2009%2Fdrip-loop.png&hash=9d3d0d513942af8cad7ec3b4b3cfc1ccb37e4861)

And of course, here are some more creative examples (courtesy of Google) (http://www.google.ca/images?q=drip+loop&um=1&ie=UTF-8&source=univ&sa=X&ei=uNVvTfHYINS1tgeu5d33Dg&ved=0CE4QsAQ&biw=1280&bih=935)

Thank you Dekker, that is of course a valuable tip too.  What you described is what *should* be done with all tank electricals, and thank you for the reminder of that.

Has anyone checked the codes?
If I'm not mistaken, a gfi is mandatory
outside the house, and what, 18 inches i think
from any sink.
Hot tubs, jacuzzi's are gfi breaker only. 1 meter to the
controls if they are electric timers so you get out to set it.
Ok, it's a bit sketchy on the aquarium part but
20 dollar gfi life insurance? C'mon, install them right.
That rona portable a few posts back, sure csa approved.
Only protects itself, no others in the circuit.
But that Red Green metal box extension cord?
That'll cancel life insuranse for sure.

Quote from: Bob P on March 03, 2011, 02:46:32 PM
Has anyone checked the codes?
If I'm not mistaken, a gfi is mandatory
outside the house, and what, 18 inches i think
from any sink.
Hot tubs, jacuzzi's are gfi breaker only. 1 meter to the
controls if they are electric timers so you get out to set it.
Ok, it's a bit sketchy on the aquarium part but
20 dollar gfi life insurance? C'mon, install them right.
That rona portable a few posts back, sure csa approved.
Only protects itself, no others in the circuit.
But that Red Green metal box extension cord?
That'll cancel life insuranse for sure.

I just happen to have a copy of the simplified code right here. Here's a scan of the relevant page.

Interesting side bar on the let-go factor.

(7) G.F.C.I. Protected Plug Circuits Required - The Rules require separate G.F.C.I. protection for
each of the following outlets:
A All plug outlets - within 59 in. (1.5 m) of a bathtub or shower stall, (except washing machine
and dryer plugs in a combined bath and laundry room), Rule 26-700(11); and

B All plug outlets - within 59 in. (1.5 m) of a wash basin, (except washing machine and dryer
plugs in a combined washroom and laundry room), Rule 26-700(11),; and

C All carport plugs - See explanation below, under "Carport only Plug Outlets".

D All outdoor plugs - which are ON the outside of a single family dwelling or garage and those
plug outlets in the garden which are within 98.5 in. (2.5 m) of grade, Rule 26-714(b).

E The counter plugs within 59 in. (1.5 m) of the kitchen sink or a wash basin wherever these are
located.

Test required - To provide some measure of assurance that the GFCI protection is still faithfully protecting
us, we are asked to test each GFCI device every month, and to record the test. If anyone of them fails
the test it should be removed from service immediately - do not use a failed safety device.
Test record - The test procedure and chart that comes with a GFCI circuit breaker and a GFCI receptacle
is important. Attach this to the panel cover where it will serve as a reminder to test these special circuit
breakers each month and to record the test. If possible do the test under load with a shaver or
portable light fixture, This will confirm that the circuit is actually opened in the test. If at any time this
breaker fails a test it should be turned off until it can be replaced; do not allow it to be used.


So according to that document code does not cover aquariums.  It only covers area's that you are washing things mainly.

Also, do you keep a monthly report? :P

Quote from: Dekker500 on March 03, 2011, 12:59:46 PM
Next, make sure that ANY electrical wire coming under your tank goes DOWN before it goes UP to the plug. This makes it so that any water that dribbles onto your cord/canopy/heater/whatever, it does NOT find its way to the electrical outlet. The same rule goes for plugging anything into the wall outlet. Make sure the cord goes down before up!

Here is a random google image:(https://www.ovas.ca/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fangelodecor.com%2Fimg%2F2009%2Fdrip-loop.png&hash=9d3d0d513942af8cad7ec3b4b3cfc1ccb37e4861)

And of course, here are some more creative examples (courtesy of Google) (http://www.google.ca/images?q=drip+loop&um=1&ie=UTF-8&source=univ&sa=X&ei=uNVvTfHYINS1tgeu5d33Dg&ved=0CE4QsAQ&biw=1280&bih=935)

I don't know much about this, but I always thought that the risk was that a heater, pump or something might break while my hand is in the tank.  In theory, I should turn off all electicals in the tank before putting my hand in, but who does that?

If water gets into the outlet or power bar it won't fry a person - could cause a fire of course - but if you are touching water and something suddenly connects power to that same water, that is where the danger lies.  The GFI trips faster than you could receive a deadly shock.  Am I right?

And, yes, I have a GFI installed at my tank.

I don't keep a monthly report, but I do check them regularly. I have a posted schedule to tell me when to change my furnace filter - every 30 days -  and I check my GFCIs, smoke detectors and CO detectors at the same time.

I expect it will be some time before a 'Fishroom' is mentioned specifically in the Electrical Code.

Quote from: JetJumper on March 03, 2011, 03:18:03 PM
So according to that document code does not cover aquariums.  It only covers area's that you are washing things mainly.

That scan was from a Simplified version of the Ontario Electrical Code as it applies to houses. I can probably get a hold of the code for commercial buildings like pet shops, commercial kitchens and whatever, but I'm not sure I could lift it.

Common sense tells me that for most aquarists with one or two tanks, replacing the first duplex outlet on a circuit with a new CFCI outlet should be sufficient. For me, I had the chance to do it right the first time when we constructed the fishroom. All the tank lighting in the room is on it's own dedicated circuit, controlled by one central timer. The other electrical needs for the tanks is on another dedicated circuit. Both of these circuits are protected by GFCI breakers in the service panel. The rest of the room lighting and outlets are supplied from two other dedicated circuits. I love redundancy. There is also an 'air circuit' all around the room with outlets for each tank, but that's another story.

Some points.

GFCI breakers are faster to shut off when a fault is detected. As in, better chance of that being before you, or kids, their friends or your fish are fried.

Circuit breakers shutoff on exceeding the current they're rated at. I.E., 15A is the most likely forum members will encounter.

GFCI breakers shut off when:

• current flow is detected on the Safety Ground
• the current flow in the Live and Neutral are out of balance (all the current coming through Live should be returning through Neutral)
  

The second can happen when:

• Live current from this circuit is not returning to its Neutral, but has found another path to ground or the neutral of another circuit
• Live current from another source is returning to neutral through the GFCI

Contemplate this scenario that has one GFCI protecting multiple devices.

• Two pumps (or any two VAC devices) in water a tank/sump, both are plugged into the same powerbar, which in turn is plugged into a GFCI receptacle.
• One device could develop a fault, but the easiest path for the current is to continue home through the neutral: no ground current nor Live-Neutral imbalance, the GFCI breaker does NOT trip off. Water is energized.
• If your wet hand provides a alternate path, current can flow. If that current goes to the ground to the GFCI, it will trip off. If that current goes to the Neutral, the Live-Neutral current flow is still in balance, and the GFCI will not trip off.
• If you have two fault devices, the Live from one could be flowing through the system's water and to the Neutral of the other device. No current flow on ground, balanced flow between Live-Neutral. GFCI does not trip off.

When the GFCI does not trip off, you're flowing current until the 15A breaker trips off.

Using a (one) GFCI is safer than not using it, but that does not cover all failure modes. Putting a ground probe into the tank or sump may allow an energized tank to trip the ground of the GFCI. There's debate on this, including that a tank may have small voltage/current naturally.

Giving each device their own GFCI means that their current is shut off if the current going out is not all coming back in, as in, if that single device has a fault. It will also shut of if another device has a fault and tries to ground out through this GFCI's Safety Ground or Neutral, but this shuts off the path to Ground/Neutral, it doesn't turn off the current to the faulty device, and that current will continue looking for another path to ground/neutral. That device needs to be on a GFCI too, so its current not returning through its Neutral shuts the current flow off to the faulty device.

Search for "Shock Buster GFCI"
They make a Single receptacle GFCI, for around $15 if I remember correctly.
Also good for putting a power bar on a GFCI for those that want the level of protection of a single GFCI, but don't want to replace the receptacle in the wall or the GFCI breaker in the panel.