Don't kill yourself - GFI you tanks

[HappyGuppy]

Hey folks,
A couple of days ago something happened to make me wake up and realize a huge danger in our hobby.  I have never heard of anyone discuss this, though I am sure others must have realized this too.  My kids, viewing my tank, did what kids do, and sort of leaned up on the tanks - repeatedly despite in the end yelling at them NOT to do that.  In my mind I can see the hidden power bar & electrical outlet.  Hmmm... water, electricity... not good.

GFIs are used in kitchens, bathrooms, outdoor plugs, and anywhere water & electricity *might* meet.  Chances are that when your electrician was wiring your house he (she) didn't think that you might put an aquarium where you did, and thus did not install a GFI plug there.

Folks, think about it.  Disasters happen.  Ooopsies happen while doing water changes.  Tanks can also break for a bunch of reasons.  Your light hood could accidentally tip into the tank.  Other possibilities surely exist.  Knock on wood... most of us in the hobby are dangerously close to a life threatening situation.

The solution is cheap & could easily save your life.  Go buy a GFI plug at Home Depot and have it installed (if you don't have a clue, hire someone to do it for you). 

Today I am going out to buy several.  It is my top project in the hobby right now - not convenient; have to drain tanks and move furniture to access plugs.  My tip to you is to make it a top priority for you to do too.  It can save your life!

[Brent Shaver]

Agreed GFI's are a good thing as long as wired properly or they are more dangerous then a normal plug.  But for the record most if not all homes/apts are on breaker systems not the old fuse style which means once there is a short the breaker trips causing the power to stop right away.

Not saying you cant get hurt but realistically the amount of current you would get for the short period of time wouldnt hurt you.  I zap myself at least 3 times a month working on lights/switches and plugs.  Nice tingle but not life threatening.

[Saltcreep]

Another thing to remember is that a properly installed GFCI receptacle will protect all the outlets past it on the same circuit. So, if you can't get to the receptacle your equipment is plugged into, you may be able to install the unit somewhere else on the circuit. That also means that if it ever does trip, you won't have to move things around to reset it after the problem has been fixed. There is also a GFCI breaker which you can install in your panel to protect an entire circuit. A little more pricey, but more coverage too.

[lost_at_sea]

Thanks for this, to be 100% clear anything on a breaker system is already protected correct?

Question: Why then do I still have GFI outlets (the ones with Test/Reset i think) in my bathroom when all my circuits are controlled by a breakers?

[HappyGuppy]

Thanks for this, to be 100% clear anything on a breaker system is already protected correct?

Question: Why then do I still have GFI outlets (the ones with Test/Reset i think) in my bathroom when all my circuits are controlled by a breakers?

Breakers (in your basement box) protect the circuit from overload.  If you pull to many amps it'll trip.  ie. plug in every machine you own and your fuse will blow / trip.  Put your finger in the socket and the fuse too will blow / trip, because there is too much electricity flowing.  But by the time that happens you are probably already dead, well done, and smokin'.

In your bathroom, kitchen, outdoors (rain), you have those GFI plugs because they expect that you'll probably mix electricity & water.  So that you don't get killed the GFI works by detecting an imbalance of power, presuming a different electric path to ground (like through your body) and it trips.  It happens so fast that supposedly you only feel a little tingle. 

FWIW - I have been struck by lightning.  It is true.  Long story, don't feel like typing it out.

[Saltcreep]

.......FWIW - I have been struck by lightning..... 

Doesn't that improve your chances of winning a lottery?

Sorry, back on topic.

[Saltcreep]

Agreed GFI's are a good thing as long as wired properly or they are more dangerous then a normal plug.  But for the record most if not all homes/apts are on breaker systems not the old fuse style which means once there is a short the breaker trips causing the power to stop right away.

Not saying you cant get hurt but realistically the amount of current you would get for the short period of time wouldnt hurt you.  I zap myself at least 3 times a month working on lights/switches and plugs.  Nice tingle but not life threatening.

Not sure if I can agree on all of this. If it's a short that trips a breaker rather than an overload, you're talking about pretty much a dead short. When you touch a bare wire, the circuit is shorted by you providing a shorter path to ground. However, it's very likely not a perfect connection between you and the ground, so not really a dead short. I've taken some pretty good shocks in my time too, but I don't ever remember tripping a breaker in doing it.

[JetJumper]

Ground fault interrupters are designed to protect from electrical shock by interrupting a household circuit when there is a difference in the currents in the "hot" and neutral wires. Such a difference indicates that an abnormal diversion of current from the "hot" wire is occuring. Such a current might be flowing in the ground wire, such as a leakage current from a motor or from capacitors. More importantly, that current diversion may be occuring because a person has come into contact with the "hot" wire and is being shocked. When a circuit is functioning normally, all the return current from an appliance flows through the neutral wire, so the presence of a difference between "hot" and neutral currents represents a malfunction which in some circumstances could produce a dangerous or even lethal shock hazard.

I have been shocked by 120v from the outlets several times (Not for anything more then 5 seconds...).. it is not pleasant but depending on the situation can / cannot kill you.  If you are standing in water then yes.. your odds are improved a lot.  The thing that really gets you is the 60Hz that is part of the AC line.  Think of a light bulb, its turning on and off 60 times a second.  Now think of your muscles contracting and relaxing 60 times a second.  Puts your muscles through a lot of stress. 

Lightning doesn't have the 60Hz like the AC lines.  Its completely different form of electricity in a sense.  I have built a tesla coil for a project once.  You can have the "lightning" from these touch your skin no problem, BUT MAKE SURE it never comes in contact with the primary coil that has a 60Hz feed .. or your .... dead.

In using a GFI I would suggest a Battery backup on a few key pumps.  I only say this because a lot of tanks I have been around have stray current in them.  You may not notice it because its pretty low but a GFI could trip this and you not notice for a bit.  If you have a battery backup on there it will keep something running for a bit and also serve as an alarm since they beep like crazy when there is no power. 

[Saltcreep]

.... In using a GFI I would suggest a Battery backup on a few key pumps.  I only say this because a lot of tanks I have been around have stray current in them.  You may not notice it because its pretty low but a GFI could trip this and you not notice for a bit.  If you have a battery backup on there it will keep something running for a bit and also serve as an alarm since they beep like crazy when there is no power. 

Excellent point. That's why I initially hesitated about GFCI receptacles in the fishroom. Common sense has since overridden my dumb-thinking, thankfully.

[JetJumper]

Not sure if I can agree on all of this. If it's a short that trips a breaker rather than an overload, you're talking about pretty much a dead short. When you touch a bare wire, the circuit is shorted by you providing a shorter path to ground. However, it's very likely not a perfect connection between you and the ground, so not really a dead short. I've taken some pretty good shocks in my time too, but I don't ever remember tripping a breaker in doing it.

In order to trip a breaker you need to have something drawing more power then what that breaker is rated at.  15A typically.  Plug a heater and a hair dryer into the same cuircut and bam you tripped it.  Cross the leads together on an outlet, bam you blew it.  The item you use to short out the line is your load.  Since there is no electronics / resistors on a fork, it will try to draw what ever it can until it melts.  Thats when the breaker comes in and says.. Hey, your fork is drawing more then I will let it.. and shuts off.

[Saltcreep]

In order to trip a breaker you need to have something drawing more power then what that breaker is rated at.  15A typically.  Plug a heater and a hair dryer into the same cuircut and bam you tripped it.  Cross the leads together on an outlet, bam you blew it.  The item you use to short out the line is your load.  Since there is no electronics / resistors on a fork, it will try to draw what ever it can until it melts.  Thats when the breaker comes in and says.. Hey, your fork is drawing more then I will let it.. and shuts off.

I think that's what I was trying to say. If you grab a hot wire when you are grounded to any degree, a GFCI will trip, but at 15A breaker would not.

[JetJumper]

I think that's what I was trying to say. If you grab a hot wire when you are grounded to any degree, a GFCI will trip, but at 15A breaker would not.

Pretty much..

[magnosis]

TIP:  for those who don't feel like changing the outlet in the wall, this item can be very convenient (this is what I use):

http://www.rona.ca/shop/~powerbar-4-outlets-woods-169540_!gfci_shop

[magnosis]

I think this should be moved to DIY/Equipment.

This story applies to Saltwater tanks just as much (if not more) than Freshwater 

[HappyGuppy]

I think this should be moved to DIY/Equipment.

This story applies to Saltwater tanks just as much (if not more) than Freshwater 

A) Don't fully understand why it should be moved, but ok.

B) Yes, it was the scare with my brackish tank that woke me up to the potential  Salty water, regardless of concentration (full marine or tiny bit brackish, but even fresh water aquariums have traces) is an excellent conductor of electricity.  I certainly don't want to be standing in a puddle from my aquarium, with drenched power cables.

[magnosis]

A) Don't fully understand why it should be moved, but ok.

Just a suggestion    For the SW folks that don't read the FW threads.

[HappyGuppy]

So I went to HomeDepot last night and picked up a few of these.  I learned something valuable, that in my mind has a few good implications.

You can install a GFI outlet that will protect the entire circuit.  The trick is to figure out which is the FIRST outlet in your loop, and replace that one.  This way you only need one outlet for all the aquariums you have in that room (on a loop).  This also means that you don't have to replace the outlet immediately next to the tank - which is good because I thought I'd have to drain tanks and move furniture around, but now know that I don't.  Also this saves money as you don't need to have an outlet for each tank (on the same loop).

A word of caution... if you decide to DIY be sure that you really reallly REEEEEEALLY know what you are doing, and that you did it right.  If you set it up wrong you could have a FALSE sense of security.  Once it is installed, push the test button, and all the hardware on your aquarium should stop (no power).  If you are not a DIY person, or have no idea how to do this then call a handyman, preferably a professional (or at least a confident friend).

I believe that everyone with aquariums should spend the $17 for one (or multiples if you have tanks throughout the house) ESPECIALLY IF YOU HAVE KIDS.  Why do we have insurance?  Hopefully we never get a car accident, our homes burn down, or other scary things... and it is a good thing when our insurance premiums turn out to have been a waste of money... but those rare times something bad happens then we are glad to have had the insurance.  Get yourself insured for just a few bucks and get the GFI plugs.

Over the next couple of days I will have all my plugs installed, and then will feel at ease again enjoying the tanks, particularly with the kids.

[Saltcreep]

So I went to HomeDepot last night and picked up a few of these.  I learned something valuable, that in my mind has a few good implications.

You can install a GFI outlet that will protect the entire circuit.  The trick is to figure out which is the FIRST outlet in your loop, and replace that one.  This way you only need one outlet for all the aquariums you have in that room (on a loop).  This also means that you don't have to replace the outlet immediately next to the tank - which is good because I thought I'd have to drain tanks and move furniture around, but now know that I don't.  Also this saves money as you don't need to have an outlet for each tank (on the same loop).

A word of caution... if you decide to DIY be sure that you really reallly REEEEEEALLY know what you are doing, and that you did it right.  If you set it up wrong you could have a FALSE sense of security.  Once it is installed, push the test button, and all the hardware on your aquarium should stop (no power).  If you are not a DIY person, or have no idea how to do this then call a handyman, preferably a professional (or at least a confident friend).

I believe that everyone with aquariums should spend the $17 for one (or multiples if you have tanks throughout the house) ESPECIALLY IF YOU HAVE KIDS.  Why do we have insurance?  Hopefully we never get a car accident, our homes burn down, or other scary things... and it is a good thing when our insurance premiums turn out to have been a waste of money... but those rare times something bad happens then we are glad to have had the insurance.  Get yourself insured for just a few bucks and get the GFI plugs.

Over the next couple of days I will have all my plugs installed, and then will feel at ease again enjoying the tanks, particularly with the kids.

It is really a very simple RE & RE. Just make sure you flip the correct breaker and then connect the GFCI duplex outlet exactly as the existing one was installed, assuming that it was done correctly. You will connect the black (hot) wire to the brass screw, the white (neutral) wire to the silver screw and the bare copper ground to the green screw. I haven't looked at one in while, but you may not even need to use the screw terminals. Most outlets have a little opening where you just push the stripped wire into a hole and it locks in place. Five-minute job, maybe. You'll have to do your own investigation to determine which outlet is the first on your circuit. If you got a price of $17 for one GFCI duplex outlet, you may want to check out the price for the panel breaker. It will be a bit more expensive but the install is actually easier than the individual outlet type.

[JetJumper]

It is really a very simple RE & RE. Just make sure you flip the correct breaker and then connect the GFCI duplex outlet exactly as the existing one was installed, assuming that it was done correctly. You will connect the black (hot) wire to the brass screw, the white (neutral) wire to the silver screw and the bare copper ground to the green screw. I haven't looked at one in while, but you may not even need to use the screw terminals. Most outlets have a little opening where you just push the stripped wire into a hole and it locks in place. Five-minute job, maybe. You'll have to do your own investigation to determine which outlet is the first on your circuit. If you got a price of $17 for one GFCI duplex outlet, you may want to check out the price for the panel breaker. It will be a bit more expensive but the install is actually easier than the individual outlet type.

Or if your crazy like I am, change the plugs while the feed is hot   hahaha.. ************** I DO NOT RECOMMEND THIS METHOD!!!!!!!! ***************

[Brent Shaver]

Or if your crazy like I am, change the plugs while the feed is hot   hahaha.. ************** I DO NOT RECOMMEND THIS METHOD!!!!!!!! ***************

I do that all the time, too lazy to go to the breaker box.  At least 3 out of ten times I end up at the breaker anyway as I arced the screwdriver and blew it.  lol