Koi and winter

[renadia]

I have read many articles that said I needed a pond 3 to 4 'deep to keep Koi alive over the winter. My pond is a plastic form, 4'X5' and 2' deep. I now read here that 2' would be OK with a water heater. I was considering bringing them in for the winter, looking at buying a 75 gal tank. Don't know what to do! 

[Fishnut]

The reason for the 3' - 4' depth is to make sure the water goes below the frost line in the ground.  That way there will be some water unfrozen at the bottom of the pond and all you have to do is keep a hole free of ice so that gases can still escape from the bottom.  If you add a heater, however, that eliminates the need to have the pond dept below the frost line because you're making the water warmer (well, not frozen) by heating it slightly.

You can leave the koi outside all winter, no problem.  The trick is to make sure you don't feed them before they get too cold to digest food.  A koi's metabolism will slow down to the point that they are just barely functioning.  They require very little because they do so little.  If there is food left in their system, the food will ferment and cause a lot of problems within the koi.

If you bring them in for the winter, you don't have to worry about this as much, but you should put them in a very cool area of the house and feed a low protein food maybe once or twice a week...depending on the temperature of their water.  There's a specific temperature that koi stop requiring food...I think it's 10 or 15 degrees, but look it up just incase.  If it's possible, use the same filter for the tank as you did for the pond outside.  That saves you the trouble of having to cycle a new filter for the tank and re-cycle the pond filter for the fish to be added back in the spring.  Insufficiant cycling is a huge cause of fish deaths in koi.  They produce A LOT of waste and need a lot of beneficial bacteria established in the filter system to break down that waste.  If you know for sure that you won't be able to use the existing filter for the tank inside (if you choose to bring them in), get a filter now and start running it in the pond.  It will have time to cycle itself before the koi have to come in.

How many goldfish and how many koi do you have?  What sizes are they?

If you have an area of the basement that you can put something on the floor, Hagen makes these plastic preformed rectangle tubs that would be great for housing koi and goldfish for the winter.  BA Innis has one that they use for holding the live rock.  It may be cheaper per gallon than the tank, stand, cover, etc.  It's worth checking out anyways.

I hope this info helps!

[renadia]

Thanks for the info.
I have 5 Koi
        1 orange about 8 "  ( that's the Big Kahuna!)
        1 white butterfly 3 to 4 "
        1 red has a white spot on head 3 to 4 "
        1 mix colour butterfly & 1 mix colour 3 to 4 "
I have 4 goldfish left they're small, they keep disapeering, some got stuck on the waterfall pump and some just disapeared, the guy at the petshop said a cat could be eating them. We do have a few wild cats around and have seen one drinking from the pond. The Koi are very fearfull as soon as I get close to the pond the Big Kahuna heads to the bottom and hides besides the filter and the rest just follow! I tought they would come up and feed out of our hands  Maybe it's better this way the cat can't get at them.

[Fishnut]

I think it's better that they stay scared.  Friendly fish get eaten by more critters than cats. 

Definitely check out the tubs.  That's going to be a lot of bio-load on 75 gallons even if just the koi are going to be wintered inside.

[beertech]

Hi, I'm just wondering if this info also applies to Shibunkins?

Thanks,
Gord.

[Fishnut]

Yes it does.  Shubunkins are a calico goldfish, so the same rules apply.  They produce just as much waste as a koi does of the same size and are capable of handling the same water conditions.

[ophelia]

I have for many years brought my goldfish in from outside usually Oct even into Nov  and keep them in my cold storage room in the basement. When it's about -30 outside the room can get as low as about 5 degrees. I run a small filter, mostly for circulation and feed about once a week or every two weeks. No gravel, no plants and a few clay tubes so they have shelter and security. You might want to check out a laundry sink to use as a tub. It's what I use and I put a cap with plumber's glue on the drain to assure no leakage. I usually have 10-12 adult goldfish in one tub. I also give them a 60watt bulb for 8 hours a day on a timer increasing the light hours as the days get longer again in the spring.

[The Pond Boy]

Hi,

It is recommended not to feed the koi when the water temperature is 55 degrees or below. I think the same rules are also for goldfish, am I right?

The Pond Boy,
Greg

[ophelia]

'It is recommended not to feed the koi when the water temperature is 55 degrees or below. I think the same rules are also for goldfish, am I right?'

I would expect that that is a good rule of thumb for all cold water fish. The colder the temperature the less metabolic activity of the fish. For the first few years I was bringing my fish in I didn't feed them all winter, in other words, for 6 months! They survived but as I said I feed sparingly now and not at all when the temp in the cold room gets really low.

[The Pond Boy]

Hi,

If you feed them use low protein food.
Thanks,

The Pond Boy,
Greg