Help with a basic questions - first planted tank

[KLKelly]

I was going to set up a walstad naturally planted tank.  I've given up as I can't find plain dirt in this town in March.  That and I've found out the awesome plants I've gotten from members aren't big root plants and wouldn't be the best for a NPT.

So now I'm looking at a different substrate.
1. Eco Complete - Errol bought them out at Big Als.  Someone slap him for me please.
2. Flourite
3. I bought this gravel at Rona - Aquatic plant soil.  Its kiln fired soil.  I read online that its basically like gravel so I think this is useless in the aquarium?
4. I had bought and returned red sea flora because I read many posts online of ph crashing into the 5's.  Another tank that I have to worry about is not what I want.

My big question is this tank will be a low bioload tank.  1 single male betta.  How will I keep the plants happy and the betta happy - I don't want to overdose him with fertalizer.

Am I just asking for a massive hair algae outbreak?

I'm looking for compatible tank mates to increase the bioload.  I haven't figured this out yet.  Some Brig snails and maybe some bottom living fish.

Do any of you have very low bioload planted tanks?  What are the keys for success?

[jetstream]

Just my $0.02, all the substrates that you mentioned will grow plants for you!

I had my 90 gal tank with no bioload for few months under medium lighting level. But because of the huge plant load in there, I had to dose the tank with all kind of chemicals, N, P, K......! I think it's all depends on your own standard or expectation! It won't hurt give it a try and find out! 

The key to success is patience!  1 step or change at a time and time will tell!

[KLKelly]

Thanks Jetstream.

So would starting off with less plants vs. tons of plants would be better?  I have enough to make it look like a jungle.

[charlie]

I personally prefer the heavy jungle at the start, as the tank establishes, you can then reduce the plant mass , in terms of substrate it all depends on what type of set up  you are after,for some plants substrate is not as important.

Oh for the record i bought 2 bags of eco   
Regards

[charlie]

For success, here is a decent site with tips on planted tanks.
http://www.rexgrigg.com/

[KLKelly]

Thanks

I just imagined you walking out with five or six bags    It was 20 minutes to closing so I couldn't make it to Kanata in time.

[KLKelly]

Clown Puke - That got me laughing!

[irene]

Since I went to med/low light, I don't fertilize any of my tanks, ever.  They look OK, the plants I grow are undemanding ones, like the ones I gave you.

All my tanks are very lightly stocked too.  Now and then a bit of black algae grows on the wood or moss.  If it gets to the point were I see it right away when I look at the tank I tank the wood, moss or plant out, mix 1/2 and half water and excel put it in a spray bottle and give a it a good spray, leave it out for a minute or 2 then put it back in the tank.  It's really effective, in a day or 2 the algae will turn red then white at which point algae eaters will eat it.

Irene

[Fishnut]

I used flourite for the first time in January for my new tank.  I'm impressed with the results, but I hated the initial set-up because flourite creates mudwater for days!!  I have a lot of fish in my tank as well, which is likely helping the plants along.

I have mostly vals in it with some cryps and a single echinodorus plant...I think it's an E. Rose.  I consider my set-up to be low light and it's starting to fill in nicely.  I have also never vaccumed the gravel since I put it in.  I'll add a recent pic to my gallery (New 72 Bowfront) so you can see how things have progressed.  The most recent addition was another crypt I got from the giant auction.

[Jeff1192]

My set-up in my 90 gallon is medium light (1.7 watts per gallon). When I first set it up I think I went over board with fertilizers and had lots of algae problems. The tank is fairly heavily stocked but with mostly really small fish. I have slowly been adding some of the fertilizers back to the mix to get better plant growth and things seem to be working fine.

Jeff

[fischkopp]

I am sure you would find a bag of dirt (black earth) in one of the many gardening centers / hardware stores. Did you try for example "Artistic Landscapes" on Bank?

I made some good and bad experiences with dirt and low light. Good is that crypts and swords (means all plants that take most nutrient through the roots) just flourish without doing much. Bad is that dangerous poisonous hydrogen sulfate can be produced in the gravel bed - to avoid this dont use more than 1-2 cm of dirt (pre-soaked is better), covered by gravel with not smaller then 2 mm grain size (to aviod compaction and benefit aeration).

Soil is just great for bigger tank because it is very cheap. If you are planning a smaller tank than Eco and Co may be easier to work with.

Welcome to the green side.

[Vizerdrix]

Several of my tanks are planted, with substrate being pure gravel, mix of black earth with gravel on top, and earth with sand then gravel.  That last one is my 65g, and it is doing amazing, considering my lighting is bad (never replaced the bulb that came with it, something like 4-5 years ago!).

I got some plain black earth at Wal-Mart, for dirt cheap (pun semi-intended!).  You're more than welcome to come by and take a look at what I've done.

Oh, and if that Red Sea stuff makes the pH go down, wouldn't that be GOOD for your hard water?

[kennyman]

Too bad you gave up on the Walstad thing, but Mainstream is definitely the easier way to go with much more support and community interest there.You end up pretty much on your own using non traditional methods and it can be frustrating when nobody relates to what your doing.

[KLKelly]

Thanks again everyone.  Once again reading has almost scared me out of this whole thing.  What have I gotten myself into. 
I think the link - explaining fertilizer has me spooked.

I was sold on the Walstad - it looks like it is not a very good idea in my case the types of plants especially, then the low bioload.  That was even after Karen Randall the presenter mentioned she scrapped soil and is now doing fancy substrate.  The plants at the auction were too high for me to plant a 10 gallons worth.

Is eco-complete less messy than flourite?  The plants are in my only remaining ten gallon since I cracked the other one yesterday (Grrr).  I'd like to plant it same day if I can.

I'm going to try and think of ways to increase the bioload so I can worry less about additives.  I'm thinking a handful of brig snails.  And some bottom fish like cories?

[matt]

Is eco-complete less messy than flourite?  The plants are in my only remaining ten gallon since I cracked the other one yesterday (Grrr).  I'd like to plant it same day if I can.

Eco-complete can be added straight from the bag. No rinsing is required nor is it recommended. This is what I have used in my 75G and have had no problems with it.

Flourite on the other hand is quite messy from what i've read. (This is why I opted for eco-complete). A few people have posted pictures of the mud water that resulted after adding flourite. So planting right away would be possible but you wouldn't get to see your plants clearly for a day or two.

[irene]

Karrie,

It's not such a big deal, use whatever you like the look of for substrate and plant your plants.  Chances are they'll be fine.   What lighting do you have?  If you have low light, I personally wouldn't bother fertilizing.  If the hygro's you got from me end up dying on you, let me know and I'll set you up with some pennywort and watersprite FF.  Both very easy to grow.

Irene

[Jeff1192]

My 90 gallon is all fluorite, a good 3" or more deep. I have very little problem with muddy water. I rinsed it outside one with a bucket, added it all to the tank and then filled the tank without disturbing the bottom much and it was crystal clear in a day. There's absolutely no cloudiness at all with it now.

Jeff

[dan2x38]

You can use a mix of fluorite and pea gravel. Don't rinse the high tech substrates. I placed my substrate in the tank then placed a saucer on top of the substrate. Then poured the water onto the saucer slowly there was next to no clouding. By the morning the tank was clear. I rinsed my sponge filter in treated tank water the next day then added it back.

Make sure your gravel is not to shallow at least 2" - 2.5" deep. Using simple plants like Irene said is no problem. Use some cheap root tabs too. DO NOT use house plant ferts of any type they use an ammonia based fertilizer that will kill your fish. With a little light and occasional fertilizing it will be enough. Do not fret just try, enjoy experimenting between several of us we can supply you with simple plants to test on. In a small tank you can always try again...

I would never have a tank without plants for the look, the filtering, and fish love it gives them places to feel safe.

[Dorrie]

I found this product called "Plant Plug" at BA Innes. It's sort of a sponge surronded with a mesh platic netting that holds stem and roots plants pretty well. It also says on the package that you don't need to add ferts for the first 6 months because they're included in the "sponge". So far the hygro I put in likes it alot I special ordered some more from BA, since Jody told me they don't keep it on hand.

UPDATE: This product is apparently no longer on the market. I apparently got the very last one. Darn.

[dan2x38]

At presenation by Anthony Kalfa (sp.) he mentioned for the saltwater guys to use plastic drywall plugs to hold frags in place. I started using them in my FW set-ups. I turn them sideways spread them apart tie the hard to root plant to it with fishline stick into the gravel... presto in a few weeks it roots. No problems yet.