C02 reactor vs Ceramic Diffusor or Inline Diffusors

[rkmike]

Hi Everyone,

I've finally made the C02 leap and sprung for a SuMO regulator (they're building it this week). I'm having trouble deciding on whether to go the reactor or the diffuser route. Is one better than the other?

It's for a 125 gallon tank (72x18), so if I went with the diffusers, I'd likely want one on each end near my Eheim 2028 spray bars for circulation (I'm looking at the Rhinox 5000's).

"http://www.aquariumplantsandsupplies.com/index.php?cName=diffuser-rhinox"

If I go reactor, I'm looking at the Aquamedic 1000 or getting my hands dirty and going DIY. My main concern here is noise (and leakage), I've read varying stories about noise levels and gurgling. My tank is in my home office, and I like silence when I work - which is why I moved to the Eheims in the first place.

"http://www.aqua-medic.com/reactor_1000.shtml"

My third choice is the inline CalAqua glass diffuser, but it's pretty expensive for something I'm liable to break (I freely admit to being a big clumsy ox!).

"http://www.calaqualabs.com/diffusers.html"

You must have tried them all and found one you liked best... Thoughts?

Thanks again!
Mike

[charlie]

Hi Mike , nice choice of regulator  , as far as Diffuser vs reactor go, i would say if noise is a major factor for you go with the Rhinox 5000's, there is 2 low points to this choice - (1) the ceramic disc requires periodic soaking to clean out blocked pores- (2) you would need 2 needle valves = extra $$( one for each diffuser)better to let Sumo know before commencing the build.
I can`t comment on the aqua medic reactor, but the DIY ones are pretty quiet with the odd purging noise & depending on design can have a slight water fall sound from time to time.

Another one i use presently is the UP atomizer- nice unit that works in principal like the Cal units,  is much smaller & cheaper, it works very well, the down side is that it gives your tank the 7UP effect - tiny micro bubbles floating in the tank
http://cgi.ebay.com/UP-CO2-Atomizer-System-for-Plant-Aquarium-12-16mm-Hose_W0QQitemZ370236770101QQcmdZViewItemQQptZLH_DefaultDomain_0?hash=item5633d4c735
I think you would definitely get some benefit by having 2 dissolution points of CO2 on a 6 ft tank, i currently do it on both of my 4 ft tanks( some would say overkill  )
Regards

[rkmike]

Thanks Charlie, actually, it was your recommendation that swayed me on the SuMo! Sergio won't be building it until he gets the new solenoids in this week, so I have a little time.

RE: The Rhinox - Could I get away with running a gang valve to split the flow to the separate units? Or would it reduce the pressure too much for atomization?

How bad are the microbubbles from the UP? Is it really cloudy? I don't mind a little bubbles, but still want to be able to see my tank clearly. I've read a lot about the UPs on the plant forums, (some really good, some really horrible). How is the build quality of the UP you're running?

Mike

[charlie]

RE: The Rhinox - Could I get away with running a gang valve to split the flow to the separate units? Or would it reduce the pressure too much for atomization?

Mike

I`ve read countless folks trying that with endless headaches , i would say the only way is to have dedicated needle valves for each diffuser/reactor.

How bad are the microbubbles from the UP? Is it really cloudy? I don't mind a little bubbles, but still want to be able to see my tank clearly. I've read a lot about the UPs on the plant forums, (some really good, some really horrible). How is the build quality of the UP you're running?

Both diffusers produce micro bubbles, The UP is much finer than the Rhinox, I`m impreseed with the UP so far ( running about 3 mths now) never had a clogging issue & i like the fact it`s in-line & out of the tank,i personally don`t find the micro bubbles too distracting. The build quality seems OK so far, the one thing i found out , is that the UP requires a higher working pressure from the Regulator  than the Rhinox, you are welcome to check it out , just PM me.
Regards
P.S I just finished building a Sumo type regulator( Dual Swagelok needle valves), Had it not been for the bargin price of the Needle valves & the fact i already had the solenoid & JBL Bubble counters it would not have been any cheaper than getting it from Serge.
http://ovas.ca/index.php?topic=41694.0

[fischkopp]

It's for a 125 gallon tank (72x18), so if I went with the diffusers, I'd likely want one on each end near my Eheim 2028 spray bars for circulation (I'm looking at the Rhinox 5000's).

I am using 2x Rhinox 2000 in each back corner of my 4ft tank. Although I am using two Eheims as well, I find that the spraybars aren't quite enough to circulate the bubbles. So I added a MJ400 over each diffuser. Yes, the bubbles, that is probably the disadvantage versus inline: you will see lots of them floating through your tank. And some bubbles will be lost at the surface (means it is less efficient compared to inline). Cleaning is minimal: there is less to no buildup if the diffuser is placed in a shady spot. Once in a while, I use some H2O2, during WC when everything is off, but I will leave the diffuser inside the tank. Each of the diffuser runs on it's own needle valve (ideal valves on sumo rig); with one valve, the pressure likely goes the way of least resistance, and favours one diffuser over the other.

These are my experiences with ceramic diffusers, it works well and kept me happy so far. I never tried inline reactor yet, but it is a worthwhile alternative for bigger tanks in my opinion. I am planning to use 2x inline reactors for my upcoming 6ft build, simply because its less distractive outside the tank.

[Toss]

Another idea from DIY side
I used grave vac head, Eheim filter and koralia2. I place the gravel vac head facing down hidden behind the driftwood, attach the Eheim return hose to it. I add a small pebble at the connection to reduced the opening. It creates a jetstream spraying downward into the gravel vac head. Attach the airline tube close to the opening of the gravel vac. I place the koralia2 underneath the gravel vac.

The system almost dissolve 100% of the CO2. Any tiny bubles exiting the gravel vac will get disspersed by koralia2. The system is pretty quite and transparent. I use it as a bubble counter, you can actually see the amount of CO2 going in there, no worry about the CO2 lost along the airline tube or any leak along the system.

[rkmike]

Thanks for the tips everyone. I'm going to have Sergio add another needle valve to keep my options open and split the tank into two zones. Can both valves run off the same solenoid, or do I need to double up on that too? I like the in-line idea to keep the extra items out of the tank. Decisions, decisions! 

[charlie]

Who said the decisions get`s easier 
You would only need one solenoid, here is a pic of the one i just built myself with the swagelok valves

[attachment deleted by admin]

[rkmike]

Nicely done!

Where did you source your C02 tank - Davidson's or Pyromatek? Is one store cheaper than the other? I have to go to Gatineau anyway to pickup my order of Eco Complete at La Niche (Marc-Andre gave me a great deal) so location isn't a big deal.

[charlie]

Pyromatek for the tank, but it`s better to call a few days ahead to ensure they have one ready & it`s literally 2 mins away from La Niche.
Regards

[fischkopp]

Thanks for the tips everyone. I'm going to have Sergio add another needle valve to keep my options open and split the tank into two zones. Can both valves run off the same solenoid, or do I need to double up on that too? I like the in-line idea to keep the extra items out of the tank. Decisions, decisions! 

Hehe, nothing is more fun than setting up a new tank - I mean that why we all have so many so that we have always something to tinker. 

All you need is a manifold between regulator/solenoid and the needle valves. The guys from Sumo gave me one with 4+1 outlets.

There are quite a few options for inline. The aquamedic reactor gets good reviews, but another option is to DIY your own reactor. This make sense if you need two, because AM isn't cheap. Check out this build that a couple of us made last year: http://ovas.ca/index.php?topic=39753.0

[rkmike]

I am fast approaching the wifey tolerance limit for this project so I think I will be going the DIY route after all.   
Thanks for all the tips (and the plans listed below)!

Mike

There are quite a few options for inline. The aquamedic reactor gets good reviews, but another option is to DIY your own reactor. This make sense if you need two, because AM isn't cheap. Check out this build that a couple of us made last year: http://ovas.ca/index.php?topic=39753.0

[magnosis]

I used to run a DIY reactor but recently found it was flawed.  For those days my yeast-based CO2 is producting like madness, the reactor will not keep up and fill up entirely with gas.  It needs an overflow valve of some sort.

I started looking into better design (for instance, Tom Barr's famous reactor for which there was a group build here recently), or commercial options.

The UP looks like it does a good job for a fair price. 

How well would it work with DIY / yeast-based CO2 canister ?

[charlie]

I used to run a DIY reactor but recently found it was flawed.  For those days my yeast-based CO2 is producting like madness, the reactor will not keep up and fill up entirely with gas.  It needs an overflow valve of some sort.

Hmm , could you give some more details on the DIY reactor, design, model of pump etc.

The UP looks like it does a good job for a fair price. 

How well would it work with DIY / yeast-based CO2 canister ?

I would not recommend the UP for DIY yeast generators, the UP requires too much pressure , which is likely to be very difficult to attain via DIY yeast generator.
Regards

[magnosis]

I built and use this reactor: http://ovas.ca/index.php?topic=22268.0

The impeller comes from a retired 10-20 HOB.

It works really well when the CO2 flow is good, the mist that comes out of it is very fine and I can see my plants pearling when it's running.  But every few hours, it hickups from gas buildup.  Today my GF called me at work because she heard it jerk, strong enough that she say it had detached from glued-on suction cups and fell at the bottom of the tank.  I wish I'd been at home to notice that, I'm not sure I fully understand what happened, but it's not the first time.

Following a suggestion from Tom Barr and Al, I've ordered a Rio RVT powerhead to replace my current reactor.  It will also improve flow in my tank. And the needle impeller can easily be DIY with tiny holes in the blades to create a fine mist.  It's been tested and approved by other people before me