Substrate for idiots :o)

[Jovnik]

I am starting from the scratch and this time would like to do thing right, but, for this, I need your help to refresh my knowledge and to get some (lots of!!!) new informations.

For the plants, substrate is "must", but there is lot of different kinds and brands. What kind do you use, why and how... Do you use some mix of few different things, or just pure, from the bag, freshly bought at Big Al's  ? Differences between  the one and the another? Something else that I forgot, but is important? Shorty, tell me about everything that goes on the bottom!!!

Thanks!

[pminister]

In plain fact most plants will benefit from a nutrient rich based substrate, though another factor is the type of setup you intend on having. Meaning if it is a low tech setup, meaning slow growing plants well then you can get away just have stone gravel.

But once you start getting in med-high setup, where you are dealing with higher light along with CO2 dosage. With the addition of nutrient/ light loving plants. In that case substrate does play a good role.


I have a low tech 20G gallon setup with low light. I mean have slow growing plants like Java Fern, Java Moss, Anubias, Amazone Echnidorus, and a Rotala Species. Which grow painfully slow, but perfect for my simple life style.


As an idea. Out of the norm if you can get your hands on ADA products line though a lil expensive, but is a favourite among most aquarist. But by default Eco-Complete is the next in terms of proper nutrients, and not to compact. Doesnt affect the pH alot.

And that sums it all.... But I would recommend the setup you plan on having, equipment you have etc........


But there are some great plant guru's in here........that can suggest few extra tid bits.

Happy Green Fever.= to ya

[pminister]

Have a look through here......to get an idea.

http://ovas.ca/index.php?topic=32616.0

[TLe041]

The problem with most of these substrates is that over time, all the nutrients will be depleted and you'll just end up with inert substrate.

My favorite substrate for low tech planted tanks is course sand supplemented with fertilizer tabs.

[Jovnik]

Thanks guys!

In my AQ I've got a good substrate (2 kinds, coarser and finer) bought at Big Al's few years ago and in the beginning everything was fine, plants were blooming, but after some time, everything stopped!!! I don't know if my substrate is just a simple rock now (like TLe041 said, inert substrate), without nutrients in it because I never used fertilizers... In true, I tried once some liquid fertilizer, but after that, algies just exploded in my thank and I never used it again! Maybe it is an error...

Pminister, I saw that post before I posted this one and I found some very good informations. Thanks for your explanation about different kinds of substrates! Are there some others?  I've got good canister filter and just bought CO2 system (pressurizes) and would like to try something like Charlie's setup (fast growing, some harder plants...).

I heard something that I don't know if it can really work... I heard that you can use a regular potting soil for flowers who is very rich in lots of nutrient, but in AQ... Some says that you can put it on the bottom of the tank, cover it with mosquito net and regular substrate on the top. What you think about that? I belive that water will stay clear because there is no direct contact between dirt (soil) and water, but what about PH? Will it change also? Yes, the plants will grow the roots in the soil, but will it affect a quality of the water and fishes? Do you see some other problems?

[pminister]

Hey Jovnik,

The idea of growing plants, can be done in various methods in aquatic form. But one thing that is important like any other thing in life, is learn learn learn...as you may know. Like reading through peoples journals of their setup, and how plants work in an aquarium. I am still learning to this day

But before we jump ahead you need tell us more information, about the setup you currently have and plan to have. That way we can steer the boat, and give you a clear insight b/c every setup is different.


Tank > How many gallons? and dimensions?
Light > The amount of light? Type of light (ie. T8, T5, PC=Power Compact, MH=metal halide) ?
Substrate > Inert or fertilized ? can be discussed later.
Plants > The type of plants you would like to grow ? (we also know you would like a similar setup like Charlies)

Fauna > The type of fishes or inverts you plan on having ?

CO2 > We know you plan on getting this. So we will just ignore this for now.

[charlie]

I may be subject to correction here - as far as i understand it most of the specialized planted substrates( such as eco complete & Flourite) does not become exhausted in it`s mineral content, if it does happen i would imagine it would take a very very long time to happen due to the natural clay content of these substrates.
Here is something else to note,- again my understanding is that these substrates does not offer any macro nutrient ( Nitrates,Phosphates & Potassium) value/presence when new but as stated above is choc full of mineral content especially iron, there natural composition lends itself perfectly to the retention of  macros over a period of time .
I have used both eco complete & Flourite from the beginning of my dabbling with this planted aquarium hobby & have found both to be equally good in growing plants, the difference is more appearance & grain size ,  which will impact the rooting of various plants, for me the more delicate rooting systems are more plant friendly to the finer substrate size of eco complete, but with the advent of flourite black sand & a comparable line to eco complete your choice is now down to appearance, flourite has a true black appearance.

On your question of soil, it is a very viable alternate & has been done by several hobbyist here, but i would caution the use of it for beginners, even when capped with a heaver substrate, it can become a very messy disaster when uprooting heavy rooted plants or when re aquascaping in general.I`m sure others experience may differ from mine.
Just my thoughts

[Fishnut]

I've been keeping fish for a long time and plants are always secondary.  I have always used silica as a substrate in my tanks.  When I wasn't trying, my tanks were so over-run with plants that I had to trim weekly!  This was not with any added fertilizers or special lights either.  Just regular light bulbs and fish poop .

A few years ago when I got back into the hobby, I tried florite.  I did a 50/50 mix of flourite and regular gravel from BA.  I didn't like the fact that I couldn't rinse all the dust away (that's part of what you pay a premium price for) and that I also couldn't vacuume the gravel (for the same reason).  After the mud settled and the tank had been going for a few months, my tank was just as amazing as before.  I had lowish light levels with lots of low light requiring plants and I didn't supplement.  Fish poop is my fertilizer of choice  . 

2 years later, the plants stopped growing, they were starting to look pretty pathetic too, so I took everything out and switched back to silica.  The echinodorus plants that were withering away started to come back to life in the temporary tank under a generic warm light bulb from Home Depot (the tank it was lighting never really had plants in it), as did my crypts and the vals!  Hopefully they'll continue recovering and start to thrive again in the new substrate.

It was a pain in the rear end to find silica in this city though.  Rebecca found out that Merkley sells it in 40lb bags for $12...or something close to that, so I got it there.

The only other difference was the height of the tanks.  My 72 is 23" high and the temporary tank, as well as most other tanks I even had plants in were between 13" and 20" high.  The light had less water to get through before it hit my plants...which IMO makes more of a difference than the substrate.

If you're wanting to go high tech though...as in plants that require high lights, fertilizers and CO2, flourite is an excellent product...as are the other "plant" substrates.  You'll get amazing results when you find the balance. 

[Jovnik]

Thanks guys! Will come tomorrow with few more stupid questions  !

[Jovnik]

I would like to summarize what we said 'till now.

-a kind of substrate depends of your setup (low or high tech)

-for a low tech (slow growing plants), stone gravel is enough, but for high tech setup (more complicated plants with more needs), you have to find a better substrate (like Eco-Complete)

-more delicate rooting systems are more plant friendly to the finer substrate size of Eco-Complete

-even if you have a good substrate, it's good idea to add a fertilizers

-you can use a potting soil, but there are some disadvantages and is nor recommended for the beginners

Do you have something to add?