Moving your substrate?

[dan2x38]

Already posted I am upgrading from a 33g to 75g. Currently have the 33 running on the new 30g sump so it is maturing well before the final upgrade.

There are some questions that concern me one being the substrate the other the size of the water change. My 33g will have been setup for 5 months end of May. I think this is a key point! There will not be tons of live in the Aragonite but there is some prefer not to loss it or the investment in the Agragonite substrate. It is not a DSB it's only 2" deep so there should be no anaerobic bacteria. I do not over feed plus have a good CUC so detris should not be extreme.

Now I am thinking on the day of the upgrade I will move the livestock into a large bin heated with power heads. The bin will be filled with water from the 33g tank only. In the bin will be some pieces of ABS pipe for hiding spots. Any other water I will save in another bin that will hold my LR. I do 10% weekly water changes so in the week before the upgrade I am thinking of having several 5g buckets on hand to hold that water and do 2 maybe 3 water changes saving all the water. I have lots of spare heaters so will heat the water an aerate it. My thinking is to have as much mature water from the original tank to fill the 75 as I can. I do not use RO/DI water but I do have a 10 gallon bin with heated aerated matured freshwater always running for water changes so that will be kept topped off during this upgrade.

With the 75g in place I would add a new 40 lb. bag of Aragonite. Then take the old substrate from the 33g in large scoops but rinse in treated saltwater before adding to the 75g.

At this point I will add the LR with the water from that bin and all the buckets of water saved. This would give me roughly 1/3 full. The sump I will keep the water circulating but still isolated from the display so will have that water too. I have a Fluval 204 that I will add to the tank to help clear the water. Of course there will be a heater in the tank to keep the water the same temp as the livestock bin.

In the bin with the livestock there will be approx. 25g of water. I will fill the tank with new fresh mixed & treated water (I use Prime) to get the tank to 2/3 full. Now I will test the water for NH3 & NO2. If these readings are both zero and the water is clearing I will scoop some water from the bin add it in one of the buckets then add some of the livestock to that bucket. I have 5 fish, 2 shrimp, 1 crab and a clean up crew so I should be able to start a drip line from the 75g to the bucket and the bin. This way the livestock will acclimate to larger water change slowly. Once the water is close to 50/50 I'll move the livestock to the 75g and the water. Start the return pump on the sump and viola!

Is this a sound plan? Is it over kill? Is it a mistake? I've heard nightmares of ppl moving there saltwater setups especially with the old substrate. Really looking for experience here and your advice. I've moved many freshwater setups and many in one day never lost a fish. I would like to insure that with my marine setup not just because it is expensive but I do not want to loss my new buddies.

[Benja]

Used aragonite is more of a liability than an asset.
Don't bother adding much if any old aragonite at all.  The lr will seed the substrate.
From my experiences old aragonite will grow those nice greens and browns you don't want to see.
Have plenty of mature water on hand... make many w/c week or two before the big swap:keep the changed water(heated & circulated).

I think you will do fine... it sounds like you know what you are doing.

[Bob P]

Never seen a problem with re-using aragonite after a quick rinse
I've used it after a few months in a pail.
If your first tank was stable, why worry?
Sure your live rock will seed the bed, but how long does
that take??
You are adding quite a bit of new water.
So why not kick start it with mature substrate.
Otherwise, carry on.
A bit of overkill,
but better to be safe with your investment.

[Benja]

Here ya go Dan, long story to drive my point:

The third sw classified purchase I had ever made: I had bought all the ls from someones 47g tank who lived just down the street from me.

50lbs live rock (nicest looking rock I have bought to this day)
30lbs aragonite (didn't appear dirty, except some black cyano)
sand sifting starfish
long spined sea urchin
maroon clown
yellow watchman
coral banded shrimp
bubble coral
leather coral
toadstool leather
polyps

I transferred all of this in a new 75g
I used about 35g of his water(that's all the clean water I could salvage from a 47g)
I used all 30lbs of his aragonite, I rinsed it many times, put it through a strainer and pulled out all the shells and broken urchin quills
I added a bag of 40lbs of new aragonite(rinsed of course)
we'll say I added 40g of fresh sw made from tap+chlorine treatment

The tank did not cloud up like a fresh water algae bloom and completely crash(that's what happened to me on my fourth sw purchase)

Right off the bat every coral closed up(stayed that way for a few days)
All corals made a full recovery.

However, I had suffered heavy ls casualties:
sand sifting starfish - fell apart(died) within 24hrs
long spined sea urchin - spines fell off, didn't move for a few days(made a full recovery)
maroon clown - died within 24hrs
yellow watchman - white as a ghost and very limp - moved to mature tank(recovered within minutes)
coral banded shrimp - died within 24hrs

I thought I had been careful.  So after the fact, I went to rc to ask what could have happened. 
Everyone who replied gave me the same answer:
"Don't bother reusing old aragonite"


The first sw setup I ever bought was a 29 biocube.  Bought it from someone in petawawa, when I got home at 1:00am, I just through everything back together in one shot(Didn't even rinse the filthy sand).
The green chromis is rock solid $ - little guy never flinched
Favia coral looked flat and dead for two weeks, it also made a full recovery.


Goes to show you how results can vary from two different experiences.
Both accounts are true.

[dan2x38]

What do people do when they move to a new place?

[Benja]

What do people do when they move to a new place?

Some people sell off their stuff rather than dealing with the hassle.

If you are really bent on using the old aragonite from the 33g tank.
At the very least, I would not add the fish to the 75g for a few days after you have it set up and running.

Never seen a problem with re-using aragonite after a quick rinse
I've used it after a few months in a pail.

I have also setup tank with used aragonite that had been sitting in a pail for months with no ill effects other than the aragonite collecting copius amounts of green & brown algae.

[dan2x38]

Only been involved in marine for 5 months. Never researched moving tanks before so this is a new topic for me period. But I am having a hard time understanding or believeing that everytime a marine hobbyist moves their tank they sell everything off. OR that everytime they move or move their tank/s to keep it they have to replace their entire substrate. Not only is that costly but would cause spikes of NH3 & NO2. There must be an another approach other then selling off or replacing?

[RossW]

There is, rinse and repeat until water is clean.

There must be an another approach other then selling off or replacing?

[Severum]

To avoid this altogether siphon the top layer of your sand every now and then and stir it up once in a while. A shallow sand bed ain't gonna do much for the nitrogen cycle anyways...

Pause for attack by saltwater purists.

[Bob P]

dan, another quick trick to help clean up your new tank when
used aragonite goes in. Yes you may stir up some unwanted material,
pop into wal mart and buy a 4 dollar polyester filled pillow.
cut it open and use the stuffing to filter the cloudiness
just roll some of it up a bit and stuff it in your sump
baffles, the ones right after water enters sump.
Change it daily for a while, you will be surprised
how fast it clears things up.
I always have a 4 dollar pillow around for
moving tanks, or re organizing missions.
When i stir up junk, it collects most of it.
I've torn down and re started at least a dozen tanks with no issues
Maybe my time will come.

[dan2x38]

I've torn down and re started at least a dozen tanks with no issues
Maybe my time will come.

Those were marine tanks?

You can buy that stuff in bulk at walmart for making quilts it the same stuff. I've used it in my filters and when I first setup the 33 used it in my baffle for a couple weeks. I think I still have some. My plan calls for using my spare canister filter it's small Fluval 204 to help clear things up. I was thinking of running it for a couple weeks on teh tank to build up a bio-filter. It will sure help with the move. I Think - won't it?

[Bob P]

Yes, those were marine tanks.
You can do whatever suits your comfort zone.
Sounds like you should have enough change water
to take care of things. It's hardly worse than
a 50% water change people do in a crisis.
You'll pull it off.

[new2salt]

From personal experience.
Purchased 3 tanks in the past 8 months - SW - up and running 1 50 gal & 1 29 gal & JBJ 24DX - no losses.
Moved and set back up in the same day.
Removed LR & corals to buckets w/tank water
Catch and bag fish & inverts - only 2 or 3 fish were left in the tanks & minimal corals, mostly shrooms & leathers
Drain rest of water - saved everything. Have a cache of 18.5 liter water jugs.
Left aragonite & CUC with about 1 inch of water.
Transported home.
Returned water and LR to tank - power filter - HOB floss & carbon until water was clear.
Reintroduced corals & fish - within 24 hours
All fish were OK - corals had minor setback for about 1 week.
Kept a close watch on water quality - tested daily for first week - 2 or 3 water changes of 30% or more.
Everything worked out for me.
Using RO-DI only. My well water is soooo hard you could almost chew it.
Untreated - TDS 800ppm + after water softener 500 - 550 ppm after RO-DI TDS less that 10 - 15ppm - mostly calcium carbonate. Never been able to get TDS to 0 ppm. It might happen when I replace cartridges, RO membrane & replace DI resin

[Bob P]

Calcium carbonate is a good thing.
My well is 380ppm ca. from the ground
I use it untreated.