Petcetera

[Mettle]

Where do you work, Mettle?

SP Barrhaven.

[squeeker]

A mom and her 2 kids (maybe aged between 9 and 12?) came in the other day, and asked some questions about reptiles and fish.  The kids each had a paper and pencil, and took notes on the different options.  Then the mom said, "since this is going to be the kid's pet, we are going to go home and they are going to do some research before we make any decisions!"

It made my DAY!

[darkdep]

I second all of this bigtime. When I was working in that department, I had the same thing happen at least weekly. I think the consensus is, people suck, and need to regard animals less like posessions and more like living creatures.

Interestingly enough, this is one reason I don't mind that "going to a pet store and asking for a fish tank with stand and accessories costs a second mortgage".  Nobody buys a $1400 dog, for example, unless they're serious.  

Still, I guess people with money still do dumb things.

[Mettle]

A mom and her 2 kids (maybe aged between 9 and 12?) came in the other day, and asked some questions about reptiles and fish.  The kids each had a paper and pencil, and took notes on the different options.  Then the mom said, "since this is going to be the kid's pet, we are going to go home and they are going to do some research before we make any decisions!"

It made my DAY!

That's fantastic! I've spent close to an hour with some families before, discussing the different tank options and what different fish can go in there. Also what type of maitenance is involved - both in fish and reptiles. If the person is inquisitive enough to be asking that many questions and willing to listen to that much fish geek speak or reptile lingo, then they must be at least semi-interested. And that always makes me happy... Especially when I see them getting excited about it all.

I love it when I can help someone out, get them started, and they come back in all the time giving me updates and asking more questions. It's great... And not just because I got another person hooked! LOL. :lol:

[kennyman]

I find the two big A's a league above petsmart and super pet. But I think thats only to be expected since they only deal in one type of pet.  However I'd take Roy's in Kingston over anything in this side of the province. Man I hope he opens back up!

But one thing I run into selling plants at a garden center is people coming in, asking a boatload of questions taking an hour of my time, and then going to Canadan Tire to shop with my info. Its great to help people out, so long as they are going to come back and a few hundred dollars. Otherwise its just time and company money down the drain.

[darkdep]

Unfortunately, that's human nature.  I used to work selling computers retail, and I used to experience the same thing all the time (people come in, spend hours getting advice, then go buy at the hole-in-the-wall store up the road).  I always vowed I would never do things like that...and I try to keep that vow (although I slip sometimes depending on the product).

Personally, I take salespeople's advice as advice, not gospel.  After the (very small) amount of experience I've had at fish stores, I would never blindly follow the advice from a fish store employee without confirmation (with respect to Mettle, sqeeker, and others that are on here).  

I got told once that I should not use Baking soda to raise pH, I should use the stuff the store sells.  The reasoning?  Because "baking soda is Sodium Bicarbonate, and the Sodium is salt, and it will turn your water into salt water and kill your fish over time."

[mseguin]

Personally, I take salespeople's advice as advice, not gospel

I agree completely, but the problem from what I've read online is that alot of people do expect fish or pet store employees to have the gospel according to fish stored up in their brain. Nobody on this forum can't be stumped at some point, so I don't see why SP or BA or PS employees are held up as if they have to remember the latin name, maximum length, and care tips for all 25,000+ species of fish. (I know I'm being melodramatic but my point stands.) There are employees who know more than me in certain areas and less in others (Jody probably being the one exception). And I think that's completely normal. Most of us are students or have other things we do that take up our days, so we can't spend all day memorizing the tomes and tomes of info out there. If you can't do ur own research, don't blame us for being only human.

[Nelson]

Personally, I take salespeople's advice as advice, not gospel

I agree completely, but the problem from what I've read online is that alot of people do expect fish or pet store employees to have the gospel according to fish stored up in their brain. Nobody on this forum can't be stumped at some point, so I don't see why SP or BA or PS employees are held up as if they have to remember the latin name, maximum length, and care tips for all 25,000+ species of fish. (I know I'm being melodramatic but my point stands.) There are employees who know more than me in certain areas and less in others (Jody probably being the one exception). And I think that's completely normal. Most of us are students or have other things we do that take up our days, so we can't spend all day memorizing the tomes and tomes of info out there. If you can't do ur own research, don't blame us for being only human.

Well expressed and absolutely accurate :wink:

[Aiglos]

I agree completely, but the problem from what I've read online is that alot of people do expect fish or pet store employees to have the gospel according to fish stored up in their brain.

When I go to a car store I expect that the person selling me a car knows about the car,  I'm not talking about knowing the mechanics side or the electrical side of things, because that is what we have mechanics and electricians for, but I expect the person to know enough about the car to match me up with the car that best suits my needs, my expectations and my pocketbook.  When I go to Staples and want to buy a laptop, I expect that the person selling me that laptop knows enough about the laptop to again, match me up with the laptop that suits my needs, my expectations and my pocketbook.  I can go on and on with list of examples.

When I go to a fish store or pet store, I expect the people working there to be able to give me the information I need to get the fish that best suits my needs, expectations and pocketbook.   A perfect example was a few days ago at Superpet.  I went in and bought an arowana, All I did was ask the person that worked in the fish section for the arowana,  He never asked me about the size of tank I was going to put it in, if I had any idea of how large they got,  not even what they ate,  I would hate for someone to put an arowana in a 20 gallon because they thought he was cute,  I expect to go to a fish store and for the sales person to be able to tell me, What the fish eats, what its temperment is like, how large the fish grows to,  and general information about that type of fish.  If someone doesn't take there job serious enough to do a little reading on the fish, or to even ask someone who does know the information about that fish then maybe they should not be working in that line of work.  

I am not trying to come off harsh on the people that work there, because it's not there fault if they are not up to date on all the information, its managements fault,  I know alot of the workers are temperary or students but I still think they should invest th effort into training them and making them professsionals at there job.

[Nelson]

I really think "people" are placing unreasonable expectations on LFS employees.  They should absolutely have a firm knowledge of the general principals of water chemistry and a working knowledge of the more popular species of aquarium fish, their environments and the fish/species that they are compatable with.  

As a serious aquarist, I will have done my research when I decide to purchase a fish.  I will have questions but responses I may receive will be weighed against knowledge I have acquired, and I will then arrive at an appropriate conclusion.

I personally have a fair amount of respect for the young LFS folks that have helped me out over time :wink:

[Aiglos]

I really think "people" are placing unreasonable expectations on LFS employees.  They should absolutely have a firm knowledge of the general principals of water chemistry and a working knowledge of the more popular species of aquarium fish, their environments and the fish/species that they are compatable with.  

I assume when you say "people" you are refering to me.  

I don't think its unreasonable at all,  All I ask for is what you have stated.  When I look back at some of the advice I have gotten from a fish store if I was at any other type of store I would  have sent a complaints to the manager or owner of that store.  When I see the person wearing a name tag that says they work in the fish department, I consider them the professionals in the matter, and in my opinion they should be the proffesionals in the matter.  I don't know what line of work most of the people here do, but I think no matter how little you get paid or how much you hate your job that you should always strive to be as professional as you are able to be.  

Please don't take it as not having respect for the young LFS folks out there because I myself have got alot of good advice and still do get alot of good advice from them.  I just am not seeing eye to eye on the fact that people shouldnt take the Fish store proffessionals word as gospel or that lfs employees shouldn't have all the knoledge needed to do there jobs.

[kennyman]

When I go to a fish store or pet store, I expect the people working there to be able to give me the information I need to get the fish that best suits my needs, expectations and pocketbook

Which employies are we talking about? The summer student labor or fulltime managers. I'd be suprised if a full time person could not give you the proper info. But give the kids a break. Its just a part-time summer job for them where they learn more about working for a living than about aquarium tending. You get the same thing at Canadin Tire, Garden Centres, Walmart, ect. . .ect. .

It's been a struggle for me to learn this, but I'm leanring as I move more towards managing staff than provinding customer support. You just cant expect everyone on the front line to have a graduate degree and 10 years exp.

[Aiglos]

Well everyone has there opinions,  I guess mine is different then others. Makes sense asto why I shop I  shop at my local fish store and deal with the owner whenever possible.

I never meant to argue anyone here, im a big fan of listening to others and learning from them.  You have enlightened me to the other side of the coin. I can't agree with you but Thanks.

[mseguin]

Comparing a car dealer to a LFS employee is unrealistic. Most car dealers have maybe a dozen models they have to know, and even then, if u ask them for certain features, they'll probably look them up on their computer. With fish, it's impossible to know it all. Like Nelson said, it isnt unreasonable to expect them to know the nitrogen cycle, water chemsitry, how to treat ich, africans south american tank setup, but there's a ridiculous amount of info, and no one person can be expected to retain it all. I've found in a lot of complaints I've read (and this is not referring to ur post Aiglos) that there's a confusion between knowing more than someone else and knowing something they don't know. I'd be curious to be know how many OVAS members could correctly identify a yellow bullhead, which I did this morning, in a lake they had never been found in before. Does that mean I know more than anybody else on this forum? No, I just had a bit of information that most people don't.

[kennyman]

I wish I had a place like you do to go to Aiglos. Small business where you get to deal with the owners are becoming quite rare I think.

[Mettle]

I would never blindly follow the advice from a fish store employee without confirmation (with respect to Mettle, sqeeker, and others that are on here).

I respect that. Completely. I know a couple of guys I work with aren't that knowledgeable about fish. But they're learning with time... And I always tell people when I'm not 100% sure. I tell them if soemthing is an 'iffy' combo. And I'm always sure to warn them that just because something worked for me doesn't mean it'll work for them... Do their own research and cross-reference it, too.

When I go to a car store I expect that the person selling me a car knows about the car,  I'm not talking about knowing the mechanics side or the electrical side of things, because that is what we have mechanics and electricians for, but I expect the person to know enough about the car to match me up with the car that best suits my needs, my expectations and my pocketbook.  When I go to Staples and want to buy a laptop, I expect that the person selling me that laptop knows enough about the laptop to again, match me up with the laptop that suits my needs, my expectations and my pocketbook.  I can go on and on with list of examples.

When I go to a fish store or pet store, I expect the people working there to be able to give me the information I need to get the fish that best suits my needs, expectations and pocketbook.   A perfect example was a few days ago at Superpet.  I went in and bought an arowana, All I did was ask the person that worked in the fish section for the arowana,  He never asked me about the size of tank I was going to put it in, if I had any idea of how large they got,  not even what they ate,  I would hate for someone to put an arowana in a 20 gallon because they thought he was cute,  I expect to go to a fish store and for the sales person to be able to tell me, What the fish eats, what its temperment is like, how large the fish grows to,  and general information about that type of fish.  If someone doesn't take there job serious enough to do a little reading on the fish, or to even ask someone who does know the information about that fish then maybe they should not be working in that line of work.  

I am not trying to come off harsh on the people that work there, because it's not there fault if they are not up to date on all the information, its managements fault,  I know alot of the workers are temperary or students but I still think they should invest th effort into training them and making them professsionals at there job.

I'm sorry, but your post just comes off as ill-informed, naive and ignorant as far as this matter goes. I don't even think the manager of a fish store should be required to live up to this level of expectation... As Matt pointed out, car salesmen are only responsible for a few models (which they're often briefed on) and they have cheat sheets and computers to work off of. (I know this for a fact - the fiancee of one of my best friends actually sells cars!) Just because I work in the fish room at a pet store you expect me to be able to answer all your questions? To know everything about every cichlid, tetra, goldfish? That's just insane!

Not to be smug, but I think Super Pet is a little bit lucky to have someone who knows as much as I do for the wage they're paying me. And I don't even consider myself to be all that knowledgeable... I think they're lucky to have any of the people they do. (And to reference another thread, I think it does come down to a combo of a love for the hobby and the discount.) It's not worth my time to do endless research... Even though I often do. And I do research for customers because I'm curious. A couple of my co-workers often couldn't be bothered.

You may say you didn't want to come across as offensive, but you did. I'm sick of people walking into the store expecting me to know everything there is to know about fish. (We won't even get into the issue of half of those same people not following the advice I do give.) It's frustrating. I try. I do my best - but people like you make me want to just quit for being extremely under appreciated for the effort and amount of time I invest into my job.

Maybe this was just some tired ranting, but it did strike a nerve with me... And I'm not sorry for anything I've said here. It's the truth, and I'm sure even though some may not say it, I'm sure those who've worked in pet stores know what I'm saying is true and sympathize with the feelings I've expressed... In the end we're getting taking advantage of because of our love for the hobby and eagerness to see other people enjoy it too. And that's wrong...

[darkdep]

I'm sorry if I started down a road that got an argument started.  

I respect the "kid" with the part time job, in ANY job.  I was a "kid with a part time job" once, and I do not have a problem with BA Kanata or any other store having part timers working there (I know I'll get some heck for mentioning a specific store, but that's my own experience).  

I like when I go into any store and I meet employees who work there because they are interested in the store's product.  Mettle, you obviously care enough about what you do to get offended about negative store comments, which makes me want to trust your opinions more than most.  A lot of people in the world work somewhere because "it's a job", not because they like or are interested in what they are doing.  

Hell I'm probably going to start shopping at SP Barrhaven now that I know someone who works there cares about what they're doing.  X=)

Aiglos:  The only thing I think about the arowana purchase is that an arowana is a rather unique/uncommon fish, and someone walking in and directly asking for it PROBABLY knows what he's doing...?  (Now, those of you who actually work at LFS stores will probably tell me how wrong that is X=) ).  

I don't expect a store employee to do my research for me.  I don't expect a store employee to know everything about every fish or plant in the world.  What I DO expect is for them not to lie to me, and for god sakes, to say "I Don't Know"!!  I am by no means a master at this hobby, hell I think I know just enough now to be dangerous.  I like having that last check when I buy a fish or plant.  

BTW, just about the comparison to a car dealership...yeah, here I have a different opinion.  In a car dealership, I DO expect the salesman to be able to answer every question I come up with.  There are two reasons for this:  1) I only know the basics about cars, and 2) when I'm buying something that costs $30,000 I'm just not willing to have it any other way  :lol:

I am sure that anyone who is on this board who works in a fish department is definetly someone I'd want to deal with.

[Mettle]

What I DO expect is for them not to lie to me, and for god sakes, to say "I Don't Know"!!

I agree with you 100% here. I think if someone doesn't know they should fess up to it. I think most customers are quite satisfied with my blunt honesty in that respect. They know they're not getting some run around just so I can sell another fish, or tank, or other product. I don't load people up with what's not necessary... And that was actually a part of my training. 'If you don't know something, don't lie, and simply tell the people what you can.' It's all that can be asked of us lowly pet store employees.

I got my job there in part to also learn more. Every day I learn stuff. And sometimes when a customer comes in who has special knowledge/experience about a specific fish, and I'm not busy or loaded with customers, and they're willing to chat, I do just that. Sometimes for probably longer than my managers like!  :lol:  I love picking people's brains for info. I love learning new stuff... And I love passing on the info I've learned to others.

The one thing that does annoy me however, and Matt touched on it, is that some people come in and flaunt asking by the technical name. Now that's just smug. One of my co-workers had someone come in and ask if we had any Hyphessobrycon herbertaxelrodi and laugh when he didn't know what it was (not right away, at any rate)... And I had someone call and ask me for Carnegiella strigata... Now that's just extreme.  :lol:  I realize some fish don't have common names, because of their rarity... But how hard is it to ask for a black neon or a marbled hatchet fish?   :roll:

[darkdep]

You know what?  When I started in this hobby and realized that a lot of fish don't have common names, and that a lot of them at some stores are listed with scientific names on the tanks, I felt like a lame-o for asking by common name.  I thought you were SUPPOSED to ask for them that way!  Especially the time I asked for a leopard catfish (Synodontis Multipunctatus), and I pronounced it wrong, and was corrected.  X=)

Hell, I'm just gonna bring in a picture from now on.  X=)

[Sue]

I wonder if stores had a computer in the fishroom set on some fish database if employee's could direct customer's to actually take the time to look up the fish they are asking about. Maybe a touch screen menu with the fish the store has in stock. (something idiot proof).