Saltwater begginer need help!

[C-Dog]

hey guys,
i want to start out a 10g or 15g Fish only with live rock tank and i am wondering if i can get some tips and tricks so it wouldn't cost me alot and so i can finally have a saltwater tank.

i'm not looking for anything crazy just basic and inexpesive for now.

thanks guys!.

[gvv]

What fish you are planning to have?
The reason I'm asking is after some time you have only fish in your tank you would like to add corals, at firts simple, than more demanding (probably). Bare LR does not look great, even with coraline on it. So, you will have to invest in light.
You will also need a PH or two... Look at the response Julie wrote in this thread - it will give you an idea: http://ovas.ca/index.php?topic=11530.0

Regards

[kennyman]

To remain healthy marine fish need approximately 4x the volume of water that a fw fish does. I would not recommend such a small tank for a Fish only SW aquarium.

[gvv]

Depends on the fish, definetly not tang ...

[C-Dog]

i sam thinking about putting a couple gobbies and stuff and crabs and shrimp.... or instead of gobies i want to put a clownfish in....

any suggestions?

[jimskoi]

Me myself.I would go any smaller than a 35 gal.I wont cost that much more and you have more water volume.
Besides.once you have one you will go bigger.Start big first.Than you can go even bigger later.He! He!

[gvv]

...
Besides.once you have one you will go bigger.Start big first.Than you can go even bigger later.He! He!

I stared my 15 G and now 50G after 90G. I just didn't want to dump all the water when I made water changes... Blame RG, who showed me the way

[C-Dog]

hey guys so just to update i went to marinescapes today and bought myself a small bag of arib sea arganite sand which is 15lbs, and some instant ocean salt. I was talkin to the guy and he said i should put 10-15lbs of rock and stuff.... is that alot...or am i just imagining things cuz i don't want my tanks to clustered with rocks and stuff i want a good amount of swimming space. They also said once i have my rocks in for a bit there going to give me some free crabs or shrimp to see if everything is alrite then they said i can get a pair of clownfish!!!!! ohh yea

lol so if anyone has anything to add or say about anything let me know.

and one more question for the media in my filter should i get all new stuff or should i have any media in it i read some stuff on teh internet about not ahving any media so i got confused and i want to know the right thing..... and do i need to get special water or can i just use like aquaclear and cycle?

thanks

[Rudy00]

i'd use RO/DI water to avoid phosphate and other issues with regular tap water, you can buy this at a grocery store for a fairly cheap price and since it sounds liek you will be going with a smaller gallonage tank it will be very practical.  As for the rocks, it depends on the actual gallonage of your tank, i'd say 1-1.5 lbs of live rock per gallon so figure that out.  It should still leave you lots of swimming space.

as for media i'd suggest none as it will be a nitrate producer later as things get caught in it.

About the free shrimp and crabs, i'd suggest just waiting out your cycle, which can be monitored with some quality test kits, you'll also want a way to test salinity in your tank a refractormeter being superior to a swing arm type hydrometer.  I also suggest you do some reading on the nitrogen cycle and what not to catch up on that so you know what to look for in your cycle.

Once you've finished your cycle and have 0 ammonia, nitrites and very low nitrates i'd suggest going with a small clean up crew and then after your bacteria load has accomodated the increased bioload you can consider adding fish, but you want to do this all very slowly.

Only bad things happen quickly in a salt water set up

you may want to consider the aquaclear with some live rock rubble in it as a refugium to grow pods for clean up and fish nutrition

again i suggest doing some reading, there is TONS of good info at reefcentral.com

you also have to consider flow rate, lighting (if you plan to add corals eventually which most people do) and ion concentrations/additives

i think i quickly got most of it but i could have easily missed something as there is lots to consider with a salt water set up

[C-Dog]

i've done reading but its always best to ask ppl that have actually done it themselves...most things ont eh internet can be just ppl wo want to put an imput on things.. ive been told to watch out for that so i am looking for people with experience to help me through this. Thanks for the info tho i need as much as i can get. I have an aquaclear and i'm going to set up a fluval 104 canister. Should i put some live rock in the canister and the aquaclear? what else should i put in them?

[Rudy00]

personally i wouldnt run the fluval either, i'd be more incline to use powerheads, closed loop systems with pumps such as a danner mag and also a sump pump which would return the water from the sump and supply some flow

as for the fluval and Live rock, i've heard many say that there will be too much oxygen supply within the fluval due to its output and the live rock will not serve its aneorbic purpose of nitrate remove, as to if thats totally true i'm not sure, i know some poeple run fluvals with some carbon in it

let the live rock act as your biological source of filtration , or atleast the main source and increase the flow with power heads or a closed loop system

and with reefcentral.com there are lots of questions and answer posts like this which give you different sources of information and stuff to contrast to other information so its not like its one source as i think you may have suggested.  And the people that do write the articles are generally very experienced , most will inform you of their background at some point in the atricle, as i find most do that write for the reffcentral magazine

[murgus]

Another POV on the salt thing...

I have a (nominal) 20 gallon tank - less total water volume really when you take into consideration everything that is in there.  There is 25+ lbs of LR and ~1.5" of sand.  I have 2 powerheads with a total flow of ~285 gph.  I run a very small (80 gph) skimmer sometimes.  Lighting is 30W of NO (about to be augmented with 65W PC).  That's it.  Four months in - no problems so far (knocks wood).  No sump, no fuges, no reactors.  I have fish (2 Ocellaris clowns, blue damsel, clown goby), inverts (snails, hermits, shrimp) and corals (mushrooms, xenia, green star polyps, some zoos, a new brain).

It really all boils down to what you are comfortable with (plus your budget ).  For every "rule" that says you can't do something that way, you can find someone who was successful doing it that way. 

Have fun, asks lots of questions and have fun

Andrew

[Rudy00]

yeah thats very true, no hard and fast rules,if doing research says anything its that

you can hear of something being done this way and some claim there is no other way to do it but then someone else will speak up and say they've been doing the exact opposite for x number of years with no problems

I do believe there is a thin line that some walk on some subjects but knowledge is power ... 

good luck 

[C-Dog]

so the live rock and sand will filter my water...... therefore all i need is waterflow. i want to use my aquaclear and fluval because i have them and i don't want to buy other stuff. Would it make some problems?....wan't to clear about using them so i just wanna make sure.

[murgus]

so the live rock and sand will filter my water...... therefore all i need is waterflow. i want to use my aquaclear and fluval because i have them and i don't want to buy other stuff. Would it make some problems?....wan't to clear about using them so i just wanna make sure.

I can't really speak to that, never having used them for that purpose.  However powerheads can be had for relatively cheap used and you wouldn't need monsters for a small tank - something to consider...

Andrew

[Rudy00]

so the live rock and sand will filter my water...... therefore all i need is waterflow. i want to use my aquaclear and fluval because i have them and i don't want to buy other stuff. Would it make some problems?....wan't to clear about using them so i just wanna make sure.

well to give you an idea of my set up, its going to be LR with a sump containing my skimmer and macro algae as filtration sources so to speak
i'll also be running a phosphate remover in the sump

other than that, my clean up crew and bacteria cultures keep the tank "clean" so to speak, water changes are done to add in depleted ions

I may even use a remote sand bed once i get the tank up and going i'm still unsure as to how i'd plumb this

[gvv]

Canister filter can be used sometimes with activated carbon in it in case of chemical war between your corals (usually softies are famous for this) or after some reef-safe mediaction. Some people also adding some phosphate rmoving stuff in it.
But in any case canister (or HOB) with any type of media in them should not be used permanently, only on ocassion. But you may use HOB without media, e.g. as refuge.

If you are planning to use you filters for "flow" - this is not enough, you will have to add at least one PH, at least this is what I did.

Another suggestion - play with aquascaping untill you have your tank cycled. After that it is better to leave it alone or you may start from the beginning...

What are you using for light and how are you planning to deal with evaporation?

Regards

[gvv]

And BTW you should take into consideration that you will not be able to add anemone to clowns in 10/15G tank. I'm mentioning this as people at first put clowns and then try to add anemones where they cannot be placed

Regards

[C-Dog]

k a couple of things.....HOB is what? and why can't i put an anemone in a 10gal?
also i ahve a frined that is like big on fish and saltwater he is in a company called justinfish and they do saltwater maintenance on tanks and he said i can use my canister filter as a mini sump..... any body have anything to say about that?

[C-Dog]

okso just to let everyone know i just set up my tank...sand is in with an aquaclear and a powerhead, i didn't use my fluval i'll ue it on my turtle tank. i put the salt in by the directions on teh box and i'm goin to wait for my tank to heat up before mesuring the salinity. How long should i wait before i put my live rock in?

any more suggestions lemme know

P.S. should i get another powerhead?