new to the planted tank...

[zippitygirl]

Well, yesterdays auction is now over and with the thousands of plants (none of which I purchased) sold, it got me to thinking, how great it would be to start a planted tank. Unfortunately this is not zippity's forte, he tried, but it is I with green thumb in the family, the only thing is my cat has taken a liking to eating my plants, so a planted tank sounds even more appealing.

I am in the research aspect right now, for any information, lighting, carbon dioxide, beginner plants, plant foods etc. I was thinking of maybe starting a 10 gallon tank and see where it takes me.

Thanks,
lori

[beowulf]

The thing with a 10g as with fish, it limits also the plants you can use due to the size. 

[Adam]

A 10 gallon is really easy to do.  I have a 14 gallon (same footprint, just a little taller) that I set up to learn from...I can tell you some things I've learned along the way.

Lighting:
Get one of those incandescent hoods and put two 23 watt spiral energy saver bulbs in it...Cheapest and best way to get enough light.  SOme are yellow, and some are more white/blue.  The phillips 27 watts are quite blue, so are their 15 watts.  I don't know much about the other companies, but I had a globe 23 watt that I got very good growth from.

CO2:
1 or 2 2 litre bottles with sugar, water, and yeast attached to a hagen CO2 ladder...Pretty much as easy as it gets, and about (ladder was $20) $30 in total.  Get some airline tubing, a splittler valve to join the two different bottles to one air tube to the ladder, a hot glue gun, something to punch a hole in the top, and there you have it.

Substrate:
Since it's small, you can get away with not buying a lot of substrate.  There are different kinds of high-tech substrates that provide nourishment, but you can also go for a smaller grain gravel...I have just a mix of some gravel of different sizes and sand.

Fertilizers:
You can fertilize or not.  I have quite a few fish and they seem to provide enough nutrients, but you may have to dose some fertilizers.  You may have algae issues if you don't.  Cheapest way is the PMDD (or PWDD) from greg watson (poor woman's daily dose).  Search on the internet.

You can choose between a lot for what you want in regards to fish and plants.  Just read up, make sure the fish or plants don't grow too big, and that's pretty much it.  A small HOB filter is good for filtration.  

Adam

[PaleoFishGirl]

Yay, another initiate to the Planted Tank cult

Thanks Adam for posting all that great info!   I have 2 planted 10 gallon tanks set up right now and they definitely are easy.  They are nice but honestly, go bigger! Even my 48 gallon is terrible because it's only a foot from front to back - not nearly enough room. You will have the most fun with the biggest footprint you can find.  That way you can have nice layering of background and foreground plants.  Go with a short tank instead of a tall one and they will all get lots of light!

Best of luck and don't be afraid to ask questions and just experiment with your tank, that's how the rest of us all got to where we are.

[zippitygirl]

Thanks for the great info Adam and PFG... ok, so larger than a 10 g, makes complete sense, although breaking the news to zippity seeing as he has been cutting back on his tanks... may be a bit challenging (actually he says go for it)

CO2 scares me... but I am sure I will get if figured out...

Question, would you recommend fluorite substrate?
If I have a tank just of plants no fish, should I still have a filter?
any good websites?

lori

[charlie]

Zippitygirl, i applaud your ambitions to do a planted tank, you have taken the right steps in doing your research & asking questions here.
i support the advice given to you about starting with a tank larger than 10 glns ( go as large as your budget & space would allow), in fact i think you have the perfect tank in your home already ( that 55 gln short  ) you just need to use your powers of persuasion 
I would say lighting is your # 1 priority , the others will be in accordance with the type of light you go with.
Here are some links that will provide useful info . to help you along.

http://www.rexgrigg.com/

http://www.thekrib.com/Plants/balance-randall.html
I wish you every success, so that others in your household ( no names) can enjoy a great aquarium, instead of giving up & turning to other hobbies as a distraction to their failures 
Regards

[BigDaddy]

Thanks for the great info Adam and PFG... ok, so larger than a 10 g, makes complete sense, although breaking the news to zippity seeing as he has been cutting back on his tanks... may be a bit challenging (actually he says go for it)

CO2 scares me... but I am sure I will get if figured out...

Question, would you recommend fluorite substrate?
If I have a tank just of plants no fish, should I still have a filter?
any good websites?

lori

You won't regret buying Flourite, other than the cost.  There are other substrates people have successfully used in planted tanks, but no one will tell you that Flourite is the problem if you start having plant-related issues.

A plant-only tank doesn't need a filter, but it does need circulation... a mild to moderate current is a requirement in a planted tank.

Shameless plug for plantgeek.net.. a forum I moderate on (although not much lately unfortunately) as a good place to find some info... Tom Barr has his own site with a forum, but the good stuff is for $$ members only (barrreport.com)

That being said, there are more than enough veteran planted tank owners here on OVAS that could likely answer most of your questions zg.

PS - CO2 isn't scary...

[Toss]

Yeah, I would invest in fluorite, but other gravel will do. I have many setup with different condition, 8, 15 , 20, 25, 75. They all planted. There is no one rule that guarantee you will have a great planted tank. The reason I suggested fluorite is that is harder to chance the substrate than lighting.
Enrico

[babblefish1960]

I wish you every success, so that others in your household ( no names) can enjoy a great aquarium, instead of giving up & turning to other hobbies as a distraction to their failures 
Regards

I too wish you the best of good luck in your endeavour of planting an aquarium, it is a most satisfying venture that, like a garden, is always changing. You definitely have the right attitude about it, and that is one of willingness to learn, and not afraid to ask for wisdom and experience. You shall go far, but you'll clearly need to usurp the 55 gallon tank.

[zippity]

Hmmmmmmmmmmm, well charlie, that 55 gal is going to good use, my big snake loves it and uses every inch of it. Plus the lighting that I had over it is now being used for my snakes too. Zippitygirl and I were thinking of doing a little contest between us both and try our hands at 30 gal breeder tanks, just the right height on those tanks. My 55 gal is a little too high, was hard to reach all the way down but then again I am only 3 foot 2 inches tall.

Also on another note, when I had my 55 gal tank being used for plants it was doing fine, and I had flourite, I am giving zippitygirl as much info as I can but I try to stay out of it as much as I can and let her do all the work and research and trial and errors.

Big Daddy: if she doesn't do any fish, will she just need something like an airstone to circulate water around?

If she does put fish in it, I am trying to convince her to raise/breed/sell guppies. The money they were going for at the auction, it is better to sell those instead of rocks or fake plants, right gmann?!

[BigDaddy]

zip... if she is going to do CO2, then airstone=big no no

A small powerhead or two would be just fine... maybe even a cheaper internal filter just to add a bit of mechanical filtration...

[zippitygirl]

First off I am laughing at zippity... stepping right up for a challenge in plants...although he does have a little more knowledge than me when it comes to planted tanks.

I think I have decided on a 30 g breeder tank for starters. Is it a good idea to mix substrates? what about cat litter? we actually read that on one website.

BigDaddy.. so no airstone if I use CO2, what would happen if I did? just out of curiousity.

Thanks for all the great info and encouragement...
lori

[beowulf]

The extra O2 from the airstone would make the CO2 pretty useless if I recall.

[babblefish1960]

The airstone would provide a flow pattern that would take the CO2 laden water to the surface more quickly, and as it agitates the surface too, would give the CO2 a better opportunity to be liberated at the surface by simple gas exchange.

And don't be cowed by zippity, anything he knows about planted tanks will soon be overshadowed by your thirst to learn and research what has gone on before as a guide.

Out of an equal curiosity, what kind of cat litter did the site refer to and why?
As for mixing substrates, you can do as you like, it is often recommended to use something under the gravel that actually provides nutrients to the plants. Plants don't eat rocks, never forget that. I have soil underneath my gravel in several tanks, and have done this for decades with great success.

[PaleoFishGirl]

I've heard the cat litter recommendation before too - essentially it's just clay.  I've never tried it because it seems kind of icky   Apparently it's extremely messy and not worth the effort.

[beowulf]

I've heard the cat litter recommendation before too - essentially it's just clay.  I've never tried it because it seems kind of icky   Apparently it's extremely messy and not worth the effort.

I would think so and unless well fertilized I would have a had time thinking things would grow well in there.

[zippitygirl]

In regards to the cat litter, the website referred to Walmart cat litter and basically it showed that it had a high iron content I believe. 

I figure my cat would get really confused if I used that in my tank, and the whole idea of planted tank is to keep him away from my plants...

lori

[BigDaddy]

Unless you have an extremely large planted tank... I just can't justify saving a few bucks on substrate by going with something like kitty litter.

[artw]

I *HIGHLY* recommend Fluorite.  Sure its messy and the tank will be cloudy for a few days, but its worth every bit of effort.

[kennyman]

Hi Zippity people    

I have a diploma in Hort Science so I kind of understand whats up with respect to greenhouse production and retail aspects of ponds plants and such but I am just beginning to learn about how plants behave in aquariums. The catlitter thing is also that it has a high ability to hold onto nutrients until a plant decides it wants them (cec) because of the clay and because of its construction into platelets. In terrestrial plants holding onto nutrients is very important because they will move around in the soil profile and not stay where you want them, but in the aquarium that is not so much of a worry because there is nowhere else for them to go except out with the water change.

I think there is basically two ways to go with a planted tank. Good rich substrate and little added nutrients, Or inert substrate with emphasis on a fertilized water column. BD mentioned Tom Barr. I got to sit in a chat with him about two years ago. He is really cool! At the time his methods seems to focus on 50% water changes and addition of full spectrum of nutrients added to the water column. It is called the Estimative Index and relies on changing out large amounts of water to prevent any singular nutrient from becoming over abundant. Very high end, but too much nutrients down the drain for a stingy guy like me