Nitrate spike

[DARKPHREAK]

Just looking for info on the nitrate spike that I'm now having. How long does it last? Is there anything I can do to speed it up. I have moved my fish to another tank as to not have this part of the cycle  affect them any further.

James

[Evan]

IME the spike can last a week or more.

I would not move all of the fish out of the tank if they are gone for too long the cycle will be interrupted.    

Keep your more hardy fish in there until the cycle has completed.  Frequent water changes will help as suggested in the other post.

If the tank you moved your fish to has an establised cycle then take some of the filter media to help your new tank along.  You can take some of the water as well.  However I would avoid using media from the other tank if there has been sick fish in it lately.

I hope this helps

Evan

[DARKPHREAK]

Ok I put 3 rainbows back in the tank and the 75g was just setup Friday night so it hasnt begun to cycle yet. When my 29g has finished its process Ill move everyone back to the 75.

Theres brown algae growing on the back of my 29g in one spot and the water has a green tint to it. Is this good or bad?

I lost a rainbow last night either from the cycling process or to the fact that my LPS abused the fish, ie: never fed, dropped rocks on them while removing them.

Thanks
James

[Evan]

You should clean off the algae.  If you let too much grow it will be very difficult to clean off.

You can also turn off the lights for a couple hours mid day to help fight algae.  You can by a timer for like $5 so it is worth it.

I would  keep doing frequent water changes.  I personally would change some of the water each day.

Are you putting anything in the water? IE plant fertilizers.

I should have mentioned before but try not to move the fish around too much as it causes stress.

[DARKPHREAK]

Thanks for the info,

I'll change the water and clean off that small patch of green algae. Im going to give that DIY Co2 a try for the plants

[Evan]

IMO It would be best to wait until the tank has stabilized before you give the cO2 a try.

[DARKPHREAK]

Ok I'll hold off testing to see if I can make the C02 work. Just did 6 gallon water change and gezz its really green. Other then water changes what other filtation can I use to help clean this up. Eclipse hood with minimal filtation might not be enough.

Thanks

James

[Evan]

There are products that will clear the water...but I would just stick to the water changes than add chemicals.  That way when the water is clear you will know that your tank is running properly.

You could take a bit more out than 6.  Just make sure that the temp and PH are the same.  Also make sure that the PH has stabilized.

[DARKPHREAK]

Is it not good to add c02 to a tank thats planted? Ive got tons of $$$ invested in plants in both tanks and dont want them to die.

Wont adding fresh water now to my cycled tank make the cycle start again? If not how much should I change per day?

Thanks again for the help

James

[saltydog]

I think you probably mean a nitrite spike not nitrate. Nitrate is the last product in the cycle & is relatively non-toxic to fish. One of the reasons to do a monthly water change is to reduce nitrate levels.  A heavily planted tank will also help keep nitrates in check.

Your bacteria which convert ammonia to nitrite & the bacteria which convert nitrite to nitrate are 'anchored' on your filter media & on your substrate & rocks, etc. A negligible amount is in the water. Do partial water changes daily if necessary (when ammonia &/or nitrate levels test above 0). Your fish will survive very frequent water changes as long as they are not subjected to chlorine & chloramine and to drastic Ph & temperature changes. Water changes are good! Many fish exhibit greater appetites & increase breeding activity after a water change.

[saltydog]

Plants use CO2 to grow. Fish produce CO2 as a product of respiration. Abscence of CO2 will not cause your plants to die. They may exhibit a slow rate of growth, however.

[Evan]

I agree about the C02 and bacteria.

The only reason that I think it is best to wait is that your tank is not stable.  

The fish are likely already stressed from the overstalking the high nitrate/nitrites and from the ammonia spkie you had before.  Let them deal with this first.

Also DIY C02 can be hard to control expecially on a first attempt.   You mix will produce more at different temps.

I am not usre if it was here or somewhere else but I have read DIY setups getting out of control and killing the fish.

[DARKPHREAK]

Its N03 (Nitrate) that Im testing for.

pH= 6.5
Ammonia= 0
N03= 40+mg/l

My water supply is using chloramine and from what I understand when I treat the water for this the it causes other problems. So in a sense whenever I change and treat the water it will always result in high n03 levels. Am I wrong here?

Thanks for helping

James

[Eirikre]

The problem with chloromine is that if you use a water conditioner which is meant to treat chlorine but not chloromine, and there is chloromine in your water, the reaction will result in the creation of Amonia.

 This is not a big deal however since most water conditioning products now treat for both additives as well as a host of others.  In municipalities such as Ottawa where both Chlorine and Chloromine are added to the drinking water pet stores usually don't even carry water conditioners which are not made to deal with Chloromine.

 It is very important to treat your water.  Both Chlorine and Chloromine can be very toxic to your fish and will very quickly kill the beneficial bacteria in your tank.

I agree with the earlier statements that water changes will not force your tank to have to restart the cycling process.  Especially if you have a lot of fish in your tank.  It may slow things down a little but there will be a lot less stress on your fish.

If your plants have all they need to be healthy they will do fine without CO2.   They will certainly flourish more with the help of CO2, but if the conditions in your tank are such that they are diing then CO2 would not help you much anyway.

[DARKPHREAK]

Ok treated the water with Aqua Plus. The plants seem to be ok, even budding in some cases but they do have some build up on them, kinda brown/green algae. So basically the N03 levels are high due to the fact that I was overstocked and thereby the Ammonia levels were sky high.

This green water is the result of the Ammonia being locked up and I can basically treat this problem with water changes(sorry just running things through my head here). How often would just suggest I do a WC and how much as the water is fairly green as you might be able to see below.

Thanks

James

[Evan]

I would suggest 20-30% daily with treated water.   This will help keep the levels lower until the cycle is in place.  Some will same more, some less, this is what has worked for me.

If you do not have one already Pythons are your friend.

[saltydog]

If you have a nitrate spike in your tank it means that your tank has cycled. Nitrate is the end product in the ammonia to nitrite, nitrite to nitrate conversion process. In most conventional aquarium set-ups the nitrate will not go away. It will accumulate. Aquarists deal with it by periodic partial water changes. In my experience, however, the level you are reporting is non-toxic to fish. You should now SLOWLY add more fish to this tank to increase the number of detoxifying (cycling) bacteria which are present. Keep in mind that whenever you add more fish your tank has to 'recycle' to develop a larger bacteria colony to deal with the extra fish wastes. Whenever your ammonia level elevates do a 30% water change. During this period don't change anything in your filter where most of the bacteria reside, even if your water appears dirty. When you are confident that your tank is stable you can clean the filter, but this does not need to be done too thoroughly & you should rinse the media in dechlorinated water (or aquarium water). In the beginning resist replacing your filter material. When this becomes necessary only change a portion of it.

You seem not to have a nitrite test data. This is OK but bear in mind that nitrite may poison your fish even when ammonia levels read zero. There is a material you can buy at your LFS which will absorb nitrite & I would suggest putting some of this in your filter rather than buying a nitrite test kit. A few weeks after you have your 29 gal. aquarium fully stocked you can renew this material with salt water & use it in your 75 gallon set-up.  At this time you should squeeze out some of the mechanical filter material from your 29 gallon tank filter into your 75 gallon to 'seed' some detoxifying bacteria & thereby speed up the 'cycle'.

Green water & brown patches will not harm your fish or your plants. These are forms of algae & represent another type of organism which is helping to control ammonia levels. Algae is good except we prefer not to have it because of our perception that it is unsightly.  A reduction in light levels or a reduction in the number of hours your tank is illuminated will help to control it. So will healthy plants which will consume some of the nutrients that algae consumes. A very heavily planted tank has a minimum of algae. However, do not plant your tank heavily right away as there are not enough nutrients in the substrate yet to feed them. You could add plant fertilizer but as long as you are performing frequent water changes you will just be removing most of it. Most aquarists eventually buy a plecostamus fish which will consume some of the more common types of algae (Careful! The "common" plecostamus will grow very large over the years to the point where it will outgrow even your 75 gallon tank). In the meantime annoying algae on the front or side glass panels may be scraped off with a tool for this purpose. (Magnetic cleaners are the handiest for this, but do not work on the HARD green algae which sometimes appears). At present, if you are bothered by the green water (casued by algae), change some of the water (with dechlorinated water). Accept that your tank will not  look pristine in the beginning. Eventually nature (with your help) will find the right balance.

Your rainbow fish may have died from PH shock. Question: How do you achieve a PH of 6.5 when you are doing frequent water changes? Ottawa water has a PH over 9 when it comes out of the tap (drops to around 8 fairly quickly). Some types of fish are extremely sensitive to drastic PH changes & will die as a result.

The higher the PH level of the water, the more lethal ammonia is to your fish. However, most fish will not tolerate PH levels below 6.0.
In a community tank you should perform a partial water change whenever PH drops much below 7.0. One way to reduce PH shock is to add the replacement water over time. I like to add enough water to enable the filter to operate effectively & then top-off a few hours later.

I hope that some of this information is useful to you. Happy fish (& plant) keeping!

[DARKPHREAK]

Thank you very much for taking the time to make that post,

Going by why you've stated it appears that my 29g has been cycled for the last 2 weeks. I did everything wrong in setting this tank up. Cleaning of the Eclipse filter every 2 days and doing a 45%+ water change also. This was due to an off the scale reading of the ammonia. Once I added 4 plants and a ammonia pack those readings dropped to 0 and I just let the water be itself.

Once I got this new tank(75g) I have also made a few mistakes. I planted the tank and moved 5 angel, 5 neon, 1 dwarf and the 3 rainbows over over to it for fear they were suffering in the 29g. Since what everyones posted here I have moved the 3 rainbows back where they became placid. Now I wonder if I should move everyone back to the 29g and wait for the cycle to complete on the 75g?

I guess Im to the point now where Im asking myself if I should move the plants and fish over to the 29g and let the 75g do what its going to do. The plants in the 75g cost well over 100$ and might be abit much for such a small tank. Is it possible since I plan on adding more neons to the 75g, can I not buy 5 more and just add them to the 29g until the cycle is complete, how many would be good for the bigger tank? Also would 1 other dwarf in the 75g?

Any more suggestions on how to proceed. Again thank you.

James

p.s The water from the tap is 6.5 - 7.5 from the tap from the Ottawa river. I live near Hawkesbury.

[saltydog]

Resist the desire to buy more fish at this time! Not until BOTH tanks have cycled! Some fish can survive high levels of toxic waste in their water but, even if they can, why stress them? They are your wards. Don't force them to live or die in a sewer.

When both tanks are stable (about 3 weeks from now), buy only 1 or 2 fish at a time, every couple of weeks, especially in the case of the 29 gallon tank, which is smaller. Learn the ADULT size of any fish you plan to aquire & do not overpopulate the tanks. Use the general rule of one inch of fish per gallon of water.

You may be about to have a problem with your 75 gallon tank, too.   Your fish are defecating in it. It hasn't cycled yet. Because it is larger  the toxic spikes will be reduced but they will come. The best way to deal with this is by means of frequent, partial water changes. It is a hassle but you need only do it over a period of a couple of weeks anytime your ammonia (or nitrite) levels are above zero.

If you move all of your fish into the 29 gallon at once you risk overloading that system with fish wastes faster than your bacterial population (which exists there now) can grow to handle them.  Also, your 75 gallon aquarium won't cycle without some fish there.

What I would do is to move one or two  fish from the 75 gallon to 29 gallon each week starting today. Keep monitoring levels of ammonia in each tank & change 25% whenever the levels are elevated. If levels are very high then change 50% of the water, daily, if necessary.

At this rate your 75 gallon tank will have cycled before all of the fish are out of it & you can buy one new fish for it every week as you move your original fish from it. During this time don't bother much about decorating the 75 gallon tank. It is a lot easier to net fish in a bare tank.

Try to ensure that any new fish you acquire are healthy. If you think you are having problems now, just wait until some fish parasite or disease outbreak happens. You don't have a hospital tank & some of the more effective remedies kill plants. Enough said.

[Eirikre]

I second just about everything saltydog has said.  If you follow his directions you will save your fish and successfuly cycle your tanks.  

 Do not buy any more fish until you have cycled your two tanks!

 The only thing I would add is to be wary of the 1 inche of fish per gallon of water rule.

 I would only apply that rule to fish about 3 inches or less in length.  Even then any 'fat' fish, like many of your plecos and other catfish will produce much more waste!

 I usually give two gallons or more for any catfish or any fish over 4 inches in length. And of course fish 10 inches or more will have a much greater demand of space.

 Do yourself a favour and stay well below your tank limits and always use a filter rated at least 20% over your tank size.  You will save yourself so much work and your fish so much stress that you will love fish and fish keeping for a long time to come.

 You would probably do well not to buy any fish for at least 3 months.  Take that time to get to know the fish you already have.  Learn their personalities and demands and to do research and decide just what kinds of fish you want.  You will probably find 'wholes' in your tank.  Areas which see very little activity.  Do some research and fill those wholes with fish that use that area of the tank, and which are compatable with the fish you already have and the tank paramaters you keep.

good luck!

Eirikre