Changing Substrate

[dan2x38]

Discussed before how to add laterite or Fourite to establized tank got some great input & ideas thanks. Sracthing my head tells me the faster way would be to break down my tank mix the substrate I want then put the tank back up. I want to get more dificult plants more & deeper coloured ones.

OK with that said:
~~~~~~~~
-is this a good Idea
-how do I store the fish
-save any tank water
-mix 50/50 Flourite
-clean old gravel
-bio-filter
-would it create a large/mini cycle
-acclimating fish
-reduce stress to prevent fish loss
-what about 1 tsp/5 gal. to reduce stress
    -add fish back
    -add plants after WC
-how long before adding more plants
-use carbon for a short time

Any other ideas, thoughts, suggestions?  Good/Bar/Indifferent

[dan2x38]

Discussed before how to add laterite or Fourite to establized tank got some great input & ideas thanks. Sracthing my head tells me the faster way would be to break down my tank mix the substrate I want then put the tank back up. I want to get more dificult plants more & deeper coloured ones.

OK with that said:
~~~~~~~~
-is this a good Idea
-how do I store the fish
-save any tank water
-mix 50/50 Flourite
-clean old gravel
-bio-filter
-would it create a large/mini cycle
-acclimating fish
-reduce stress to prevent fish loss
-what about 1 tsp/5 gal. to reduce stress
    -add fish back
    -add plants after WC
-how long before adding more plants
-use carbon for a short time

Any other ideas, thoughts, suggestions?  Good/Bar/Indifferent

Any opinions?

[DavidJohnson]

A month or so ago I changed my 20g tank from gravel to sand for the benefit of my kuhli loaches.  It was a bit of a pain but not overly difficult.  I recommend getting a few 5g buckets to make the transition easier and plan on having several hours to tear down and then rebuild your tank.  The steps I took were:

1.  Take some of the tank water and fill one of the 5g buckets about half full.
2.  Take out the driftwood/rocks/decorations and plants and put the plants in the half filled 5g bucket.  The decorations don't need to go in there but this is a good opportunity to give them a good cleaning.
3.  Catch your fish (should be easier with the decorations and plants out) and put them in the 5g bucket.  If you have a lot of plants and fish you may need to use more than one bucket.
4.  Empty the remaining water.
5.  Remove the existing substrate and replace it with the substrate you want (or mix in the new stuff that you want).
6.  Refill with water about half to three quarters full (easier to aquascape when not completely full)
7.  Decorate the tank and replant your plants.
8.  Fill the tank the rest of the way up and put the fish back in.

Be sure that during the process your filter(s) remain wet in order to keep the bacteria alive.  If your tank water temperature is substantally above room temperature you may want to put a heater in the bucket to keep it warm for the fish.  You may also want to bucket a lot of the existing water and keep it to refill the tank after the substrate swap.  The more water you keep will also help maintain as much of the bacteria as possible and reduce the chances of a mini-cycle.  Also if you keep the fish in a bucket and covered so it is dark you will minimize their stress.  It might also be beneficial to not feed them for a day before you make the change.

Hope this helps.

[dan2x38]

I am thinking if I go that route to do a large WC before breaking down the tank. Then a few days later break down the tank. I am thinking of keeping as much tank water as possible. There is very little affective bacteria in the water. The water does hold the pH, KH, GH, Ca, Fe, Ma, and all other properties. With that thinking I would reuse most of the water. Then when I put the tank back up after a few days do another water change. My filter would likely be clogged and need a rinsing soon after too.

It sounds doable just scarey never did this before... Iks...  I still need to do more research before I decide on this approach...

[fischkopp]

I am thinking if I go that route to do a large WC before breaking down the tank. Then a few days later break down the tank. I am thinking of keeping as much tank water as possible. There is very little affective bacteria in the water. The water does hold the pH, KH, GH, Ca, Fe, Ma, and all other properties. With that thinking I would reuse most of the water. Then when I put the tank back up after a few days do another water change. My filter would likely be clogged and need a rinsing soon after too.

It sounds doable just scarey never did this before... Iks...  I still need to do more research before I decide on this approach...

-is this a good Idea -> yeap, its always fun to re-scape a tank
-how do I store the fish -> buckets or another tank
-save any tank water -> probably a good idea to keep like 50%-75%, but i think not necessay
-mix 50/50 Flourite -> whats the other 50%, i would say personal choice
-clean old gravel -> yeap, but only roughly as the gravel also contains helpful bacteria
-bio-filter -> keep your old filter alive in the fish bucket
-would it create a large/mini cycle -> probably, but should be fine if you keep your cycled filter
-acclimating fish -> as usual, but should be fine, especially if you keep some of your old water
-reduce stress to prevent fish loss -> dont overstress them while taking them out and dont do to much aquascaping before, they will be happy to come back
-what about 1 tsp/5 gal. to reduce stress -> not too much a fan of salt, should also be fine without it
    -add fish back
    -add plants after WC
-how long before adding more plants -> i would add them right away, make sure you have some fast growers to avoid too much algae
-use carbon for a short time-> nee, dont waste your $$$ the only reason i use that stuff is to keep the water semi-clear in a tank thats packed with wood

I wouldnt do a big WC before doing this to reduce the stress on the fish and because restarting the tank is a big WC anyway. After setting it up just go back to the normal routine ...

[babblefish1960]

Great advice kopper, if this advice is followed, success will be yours and your fishes.

[charlie]

Just to add to fischkopp excellent advice  , the present gravel has a ton of good bacteria , so it would help to keep it alive and place some of it back in the tank in nylon bags to help stabilize your bio filter, then remove after everything is established.
Regards

[dan2x38]

Just to add to fischkopp excellent advice  , the present gravel has a ton of good bacteria , so it would help to keep it alive and place some of it back in the tank in nylon bags to help stabilize your bio filter, then remove after everything is established.
Regards

When you say place some back in nylon bags I am using my old gravel. As suggested only clean it some what. I do not follow exactly what you mean... maybe just slow this morning... DOH


Thanks everyone for all your advice! I am nervous about this but will follow your suggestions. 

[charlie]

My bad , i was under the impression you are changing the substrate & therefore not using the old gravel, that said you don`t want to clean the old grave too much, as mention there is a lot of beneficial bacteria in the gravel bed.
Regards

[dan2x38]

My bad , i was under the impression you are changing the substrate & therefore not using the old gravel, that said you don`t want to clean the old grave too much, as mention there is a lot of beneficial bacteria in the gravel bed.
Regards

I am adding fluorite. Once I started thinking what you wrote it occurred to me I will not be using 100% of my previous gravel. So to maintain my bio-filter I should bag the original gravel I won't being using. Then stick them in the corners of my tank for a week or so until I am sure all is well. Does that make sense?

[dan2x38]

Well it took me about 7 hours but it is done. I broke the tank down leaving just the gravel. I pushed one layer of gravel from one side to he other. Then on the side with less gravel lay ed a layer of flourite. Then pushed the gravel to other side doing the same thing. Leveled it out then covered the gravel with the rest mixed it. I was able to clean the glass especially the back. I even pulled off the background and reapplied with the Vaseline tip. The background looks great. Moved some equipment around it looks better.

I was able to prune out all the dead & damaged leaves after that Ich treatment.

The cloudiness is already almost gone. I had gotten some rocks and driftwood while latios & I were patrolling the river banks. I boiled the driftwood for more than 48 hours. Boiled the rocks for 3 hours. The driftwood is not quite cured enough had to hold down with some rock.

All in all I am happy. The fish look fine with no signs of stress. I followed the steps you guys laid out. Thanks all so far my substrate change is a success... x 1,000,000 I am about 75% pleased with the look but I am picky... 

Now can I get some more colourful plants up and growing?

Thanks all! 

[fischkopp]

Now can I get some more colourful plants up and growing?

The key for that is a quite bright light 

Glad to hear everything worked out well. You will have to share some pics 

[dan2x38]

Here are couple pics of the new set-up with flourite substrate upgrade. The plants still have not totally recovered from the Ich meds & salt but they are coming back. Still some plants to add to the back I have them in a bucket. I also got to move a few things around later because driftwood still not cured wants to float. I inject CO2 & have 3w/gal.


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[dan2x38]

Here is a new pic. a month of tearing down my tank to add flourite. It is also a week after using EI dosing. So far I am happy with the results. It takes a few months for tank to establish I can hardly wait...


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[fischkopp]

Looks good! Wont take much time anymore to become a sunken jungle