Algae growing and killing plants

[cemantic]

My problem is algae.  no worries cleaning it but it is growing on and killing off the plants I have.  Mainly Java Ferns, Swords and a few others, not sure of names.  The Goldie's are leaving the plants alone, which is good.  Algae is green and brown variety.

I seem to have the cycling of the tank under control now.  About three weeks.
Ammonia showing zero, Nitrites zero, Phosphates 0.25, Nitirate 5

PH is leveling off at 6.5 but I'd like it higher 7-7.5  I have a 10" brain coral skeleton, would that be too much in the tank as an alkalizer to bring up the PH?  I understand the PH can really drop on a tank unless certain things are not in balance.

I realize the algae is an issue for everyone but is there any suggestions on how to balance out the tank so that the plants will grow and still have the algae on rocks wood etc. or at least control it until the plants can grow enough to control the amount of algae by stealing the algae's food source.

Lights are 6 x 48" T5 54W 4100K, 6500K lamps on order.

Tanks is 48 x 18 x 30 "  it is 30 " high so deep.

Info:

1 koi 7 "
3 goldfish 5-6 "
5 goldfish 3-4 "

110 gallon tank
2 " of Seachem Fluorite Red
1.5 " 1/4 to 3/8 " Gravel
Some larger rocks, inert, no limestone etc.

two sunken wooden chunks, not sure of the name of the wood, bought at Big Al's lightbrown on one side dark brown on the other side.  The algae loves growing on the dark side but not the light side.

Two fake plants now covered in a nice bright green algae.

Two air columns, one on it's own just a pad, the other is in two sponge filters stacked to help with the bio filter part.

[dan2x38]

This is quite a new set-up. Takes a bit to stabilize. How long are your lights on? Are they on a timer? Any additional ferts? No CO2 I guess?  If my math is right you are close to 3w/gal. Until those plants get a good foot hold that algae will use up that lighting. If your plants aren't growing but dieing from algae you might have to black-out the tank. Then find the cause. Me I'd suspect not enough balance with the lighting and plant growth so the algae is flourishing. Could reduce the time the lights are on. If you have no Vals maybe try some Seachem Excel. Someone mentioned at Big Al's prices are dropping. Just some of my thoughts... Don't give up plants are great!

[babblefish1960]

You have some slow growing plants in there, you may wish to employ some quicker growing stem plants to help soak up some nutrients, as the algae, being as smart as it is, is nicking the nutrients first.   You may also wish to scrape the algae off at every opportunity to slow its apparent hostile takeover of your tank.  There are two things here that need to happen, the first is the lights are bright, but not so hot on the colour temperature, the 6100k lamps will noticeably improve things, as you are too yellow right now.  The other thing is simply time, I am not certain how long this tank has been operating, but you will experience some algae blooms of various types until such time as the tank is more mature.  The brown algae is the same as the green algae, it just indicates that it is starved for light, another indicator of inadequate lighting, in this case colour temperature.

Patience and hygrophila polysperma are your friends, get to know them, you'll have more fun.

[BigDaddy]

The colour of the bulbs isn't the core issue.

You have a ton of light over that tank and no CO2.  Is there a reason you have that much light?  With slow growing plants, you could take away 2, even 4 bulbs from that setup for the time being and let your slow growers get healthy again.

Otherwise, if you are planning a high light planted tank (which a 6 bulb T5HO system is), then you need a lot of fast growing stems and a CO2 system.

[cemantic]

The tank is only about three weeks old and I just got the cycling under control.  I am beginning to see my impatience here.  Small tinkering without upsetting the balance.

Cleaned all the algae off the glass yesterday so will check levels again to see that all is okay in that respect.

I was told and read in numerous places that 4W per gallon for a deep 30" tank was necessary to get plants to grow.  Coming in now about 324W but from what I have read the 4100K is not the best on it's own.  Through a lot of reading apparently combining 4100K with 7600K is an optimum combination of frequencies for plants.  Land based or aqua based.  Unless I order 40 tubes I can't get the 7600K so have settled with the 6500 when them come in.  They are close.

A DIY canopy.  I have two workhorse 7 ballasts that run a bank of three T5's each with a switch on both.  It is just painted a gloss white on the inside, no reflectors.  They are set on a timer with moonlights on during the night.  The one bank runs for 11 hours then the other bank runs at 10 hours coming on and off a 1/2 hour after and off before the first set.   Very easy to just run one off.

Will the Flourish Excel help the algae as well or just the plants?

If the plants totally die off I will get some of the Hygrophila polysperma though do Goldfish like them.  At least the fish are not eating what is there now.

Patience I guess.  Let things settle and try some faster growing plants to get the algae's food?

How much does temperature come into play?  The tank is running at about 68-70 when the lights have been on all day and in the morning it is about 66.

Putting in a Pinpoint temp and PH gauge tonight and am doing a thorough vacuuming of the bottom.  Should I do the vacuum or leave it alone for now as long as the levels are okay?

No CO2 as yet, leery about that as a newbie, don't want to kill the fish.  They are happier then the proverbial pig in s... right now.  I don't want to mess too much with them since I can finally relax a bit with the water changes and have a stabler environment for the fish.

[BigDaddy]

You were somewhat misinformed about how much light you need to grow plants.

Low light plants like the ones you currently have in your tank will do just fine with 2 or 3 of those bulbs.  Even the swords will likely do just fine with 4 bulbs.

Granted, you won't be able to grow high light plants or carpetting plants with that lighting.  However, you also do not need CO2 suppliments.  At the rates you currently have, the plants simply can not grow properly to compete against any algae in your tank.  With lighting that strong, you need strong, growing plants to keep things in check.

As well, goldfish are herbivores.  While you can "plant" a goldfish tank, you certainly can't plant anything that REQUIRES those kinds of light levels.  Well, you could.. but the goldies would love them.

For now, turn off one of your two ballasts and keep doing your cleanups and waterchanges until things stabilize.

[cemantic]

Thanks I will try shutting off one of the banks of lights, an easy solution.

What about the time?  10 hours, more or less?

I will keep on top of water changes and watch the levels.

A little dose of patience as well.

What about "hygrophila polysperma" a high or low light plant and will goldies leave them alone?  Any kind better then it's cousin?

[cemantic]

Should I be scrubbing everything to get rid of the algae?  i.e. all rocks, fake plants, wood on the bottom etc.

On the wood in there and the rocks it looks fine not too thick at the moment.

It is the build up on the plants in there.

The sides are easy enough to clean regularly.

[charlie]

cemantic, in your origanal post , you talked about bright green algae, do you have a picture or can you describe it in more detail .

[cemantic]

Hello

Attached is pictures of the algae.  Some it is obvious, others, with reducing the size and poor focus are not as good.

Should I leave the algae alone and let it settle out or scrub everything down to get rid of as much of it as I can physically? 

I am worried that if I do then that will effect the cycling and state of the tank.  Right now things are looking good as far as levels and the fish are happy.  They do seem to eat the stuff and they are all used to the pond with lots of natural veggies.  Even leaving the algae on the wood since it does add its own aesthetics.

I guess the problem still boils down to the algae killing the plants and not letting them have the time to get established.


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[dan2x38]

To get a handle on things I would black out the tank. Then reduce those lights after the black-out. Start up some fast growing stem plants: water sprite, polysperma, westeria, rotola indicia, hornwort, etc... I can give you some water sprite, few clippings of ploy...

[KLKelly]

Your algae looks a whole lot prettier than mine does 

The advice I was given on the walls was to do two each week - not all four.  I gave up on mine.  I have this neat lion head fountain in behind my tank that you can't even see.

Your pictures are very good and I'm sure you'll get some more good advice.

[cemantic]

Hi all

I am going to scrub down all the wood and rocks in the tank.  I have two each of the big and smaller fake plants so I will replace them then clean the ones that came out and cycle them.  Less light, I'll just run three of the tubes instead of six and for fewer hours.

Going to get some Hornwort and some hygrophila polysperma of some flavour.

Has anyone used those Japanese Moss Balls?  I may try some of them for a novelty and apparently they will also compete well with the algae, which I guess is all they are anyways.

I'll let you know how I make out.  Hopefully I don't tank the good bateria in all this cleaning.

[cemantic]

Hi dan2x38

Thanks for the offer.  Are the water sprites fairly fast growing?  I assume you meant polysperma as the second one?  Hopefully I can get what I need this week if not I will definitely get in touch.  I not sure how much to get in there all at once.  Thinking I should do one or two new plants at a time and see how they work out.

Which end of town are you?  We are near the Civic Hospital area.

[BigDaddy]

What you have there is hair algae by the looks of it.  A black out won't really kill it off.

Hygro and hornwort will definately wind up as goldfish food before they ever get rooted.

Do you intend for this to be a goldfish tank?  If so, you will need to reconsider your plant choices (and thus your lighting).  Goldfish are herbivores and will eat most of your plants.

Plants that should do okay with golides are java fern, anubias, vals and probably african fern.

[Vizerdrix]

Fishtail in Orleans still has some Japanese Moss Balls available.  My three are doing fine (I have two in the goldie tank).

I had massive algae problems in my tank, and plopped in three bushynose pl*cos; within a few days, I had no more algae and the tank looks GREAT!   I know your bioload is high on yours, but it might be worth it to get at least one...

[Toss]

Hold the Moss ball plan until you able to control your algae problem. You will regret it if you buy them now. Goldie, high light and fast growing plants are just not meant to be together. You will endlessly trying to balance the three and not enjoying your tank. Eventually your fishes will suffer because their environment never get stabilized.

[Laura]

For plants that do well with my goldies, I agree with Big Daddy - Anubius, Java fern, african fern are all untouched in my tank.  I understand they won't eat onion plants either (crinium thaianum) but can't speak from experience.

I see you have your java fern planted in the gravel.  You may want to consider tying it to the driftwood or rocks as they do better with their roots/rhizome out of the gravel.

[cemantic]

I think it is string algae and from what I have read it is very hard to get rid of completely.  The tank right now seems to have finally cycled though and it took less time then I expected.  Fingers crossed.  Ammonia is zero for last four days, Nitrites are a little up between 0 and 0.25, Nitrate is between 5 and 10 which from what I've read you do want some of these for the plants.

The water is crystal clear.  The only place the string algae grows is on the rocks and wood that I've added and the sides.  The sides are easy to control, just clean it once a week.  The small gravel 1/4 to 3/8 of an inch on the bottom has NO algae on it.

Went to half the light for now.  Still not sure what to do about the plants.  The Java ferns have been replanted and tied to the wood in the tank.  I gave them a gentle rub to try and get some of the string algae off.

At this point the fish are happy, levels are good like I said the only kick is the plants.  I am going to give it a couple of more weeks to make sure things are stable then may look into some sort of algae eater, though it is cool in there, about 66-68 degrees.

Maybe keep cleaning all the rocks and see how that holds or works though the rocks themselves do not have much on then.  The main growth area is the wood in there.  I can't remember the name of the wood.  It is light brown on one side and dark brown on the other.  It is the dark side where the growth is.  The light coloured side has almost no algae.

I want to still wait until the foam filters with the air stone has a chance to get the bacteria built up until I really clean things out.  I assume by cleaning you will lose some of the bacteria in the process.

[dan2x38]

Your driftwood is mopani. if you want to try I got a few clippings of westria, poly, & water sprite... can try them if they eat them oh well it was free... LOL