Recommendations for africans?

[dougb]

I've been keeping fish a while, but I'm new to africans (is it fair to say I'm 'new' if I haven't actually gotten any, ever, not even now?).  I'm setting up my 165g for africans, and I'd like some advice.  The general question: what is a good starting place, given what's available locally (local breeders, club members, Ottawa stores).

From what I've read, I'd like to go with species from Lake Tanganyika.  I was thinking frontosa for the show piece, with some smaller or more peaceful julidochromis, neolamprologus, or altolamprologus to add some variety.   What are local sources like for these or other Tanganyikans?  What would you recommend?

If these are only available sporadically or expensively around here, I'm not adverse to going with species from Lake Malawi instead.  To my eye (given what I've read), the common species from Lake Malawi are all pretty much the same (different colours but same character).  Is that a fair observation?  From what is available locally, what would you recommend?

Thanks for the information.

[pegasus]

I have both Tangs & Malawians and I would not venture in giving you any recommendations. I think it should be of your own choice, maybe from some readings or just talking with some owners of both. Personaly, I'd prefer to send you an invitation to visit, just pm me if you would like to drop by.

[dannypd]

I'd recommend pegasus' offer!

WARNING:  Once you get that 165 filled, you'll quickly fill another, and another, and another

[dougb]

Oh, I know the dangers.  At my peak, I had 12 aquariums running, with maybe 250g total.  When we built this house, I designed it.  I actually designed it to accomodate this tank.  So, I'm already well down the path of "too much effort and money spent on aquariums".  Fortunately (?) the "fish room" behind this tank is too small to accomodate more than another 50 gallons or so of aquariums...

I'd recommend pegasus' offer!

WARNING:  Once you get that 165 filled, you'll quickly fill another, and another, and another

[dannypd]

Fortunately (?) the "fish room" behind this tank is too small to accomodate more than another 50 gallons or so of aquariums...

Sounds like a good room to build a type of SUMP / Refugerium for that big 165 gallon tank.

Assuming the 165g splits the rooms in half??

[Sue]

Would you be the doug bailly that used to be OVAS vp eons ago?
If so  /wave hi  

[Eirikre]

pegasus's offer sounds very tempting indeed.  I may just take him up on it myself.  I would also recomend you attend the Auction.  I am sure that there will be Africans from both lakes althought the majority will be mbuna from lake malawi, which will be available in great variety and for a fair to cheap price based on last year's auction.

[dougb]

Hi Sue!  Yeah, that's me (although I don't think I ever held the VP post -- I was always involved in the newsletter).

Yes, the 165g does split the room in two -- on one side there's the family room, and the fish room on the other.  The fish room is more a large closet (about 5'x5') with a sink in the corner.  I've got an overflow on the 165 that drains into a 10g.  The 10g has an overflow that drains into the sink.  I pour a steady drip of water into the 165 from a line I tapped into our plumbing (we're on a well, so no worry about chloramine).  That gives me a very slow 10% water change per day, for a very clean tank, and a 10g isolation tank that I can use as a hospital tank or as a quarantine tank when I bring new fish in.  Since the 10g is completely downstream from the main, no worries about disease getting in to the 165.

The 165 was set up as a planted tank for softwater fish, but I have given up on that -- I can't get the balance right between my well water, nutrient additives, and light to get good plant growth with no algae.  Back to the "go with what works in your water" philosophy...

[dannypd]

Hi Sue!  Yeah, that's me (although I don't think I ever held the VP post -- I was always involved in the newsletter).

Yes, the 165g does split the room in two -- on one side there's the family room, and the fish room on the other.  The fish room is more a large closet (about 5'x5') with a sink in the corner.  I've got an overflow on the 165 that drains into a 10g.  The 10g has an overflow that drains into the sink.  I pour a steady drip of water into the 165 from a line I tapped into our plumbing (we're on a well, so no worry about chloramine).  That gives me a very slow 10% water change per day, for a very clean tank, and a 10g isolation tank that I can use as a hospital tank or as a quarantine tank when I bring new fish in.  Since the 10g is completely downstream from the main, no worries about disease getting in to the 165.

The 165 was set up as a planted tank for softwater fish, but I have given up on that -- I can't get the balance right between my well water, nutrient additives, and light to get good plant growth with no algae.  Back to the "go with what works in your water" philosophy...

*sniff* beautiful!

[dougb]

Thanks for the input, every one.

I see Sue has grabbed Kashif's Tropheus colony -- that lessens the difficulty of this decision for me, somewhat.  I like the character of the Tanganyikans, but I think I'll start easy and less expensive -- I'll primarily fill the tank with Malawain mbuna.

So that leads to my next question: how advisable (or inadvisable) is it to mix mbuna with some tanganyikan shell dwellers?  Are there particular mbuna or shell dwellers this works for, or that I should avoid?  I'd like to get a mix of fish sizes in this tank, if I can do it without losing anything to predation.

One thought I had wrt Tanganyikans: there seems to be only two popular showcase fish: frontosa and tropheus.  All of the other popular Tanganyikans are "and I also have" fish -- i.e. they're not really kept as the focus of the tank.  As for frontosa and tropheus, neither seems like a good match for other fish in the tank -- frontosa are described as 'nervous', while tropheus are 'sensitive'.  All of this just comes from what I've read, of course -- no real experience backing it up.

[pegasus]

Patman's frontosa is in my show tank with my pair of Tropheus Kaiser II, 4 tretocephalus and male A. tuartgranti and his harem of 5 females. All are doing fine.

My other males Kaiser are split in other tank with mbunas, Aulonocara & other tangs. (until I can find more females) The Tropheus are giving these tanks a certain sens of class.

The tanganyikan shell dwellers are too small for mbuna but I think there is a malawian shell dweller or a malawian of similar size.

[slickshooter]

My 2 cents (penny and a half american) if you happen to go the Mbuna route. Get ahold of some Aceii they quickly became my favourite fish in my tank. They are so enquisitive (sp) its amazing.Their colours are striking as well. With blue bodies and yellow finnage (white finned version available as well).They are one of the few schooling Mbuna that I know of which is great although they don't always stay together.I can actually "pet" them when I put my hand in the water while cleaning. Another thing that would strike me with such a large Mbuna tank would be the amount of fish you could put in. The colour combinations would be endless and phenomenal.
Let us all know what you decide.

[Sue]

When I had a  shell dweller  in a big tank with mbuna's, it did well for a while but eventually dissapeared. Its not really a good location for them.

You could try some peacocks, and hap. ahli, to add colour.
Tropheus are the only african's that still hold my attention, but everyone has different tastes so I can't advise there.
Trets and brichardi are some other tang's that can be pretty in a big tank.

[dougb]

I appreciate all the input, folks.  I looked up Pseudotropheus acei, and they do look like a nice fish.  Peacocks are an obvious alternative, as well.  I was also thinking some Labidochromis caeruleus.

A lot will depend on what's available, of course.

Another question for all involved: what are your thoughts on mixing different species of the same genus?  How likely is interbreeding?  For that matter, if I don't put any effort into keeping the cross-breed fry alive, what are the odds of them growing up in a large multi-mbuna tank?

[slickshooter]

In my tank I have Kenyi,Yellow Labs,Acei and all morphs of Red Zebra.
There has been alot of breeding but by the looks of things everyone has stuck to their kind.
In my opinion they will choose their own kind to breed with unless there is none present.Then they will breed with whatever is available.
In my tank (75g) I have only had 3 fry survive without intervention.
I always have atleast one female holding but they are either swallowing or the fry are being eaten once released.One yellow lab was holding constantly and I wondered why I never saw fry. Now I take her out when shes holding and WOW tons of fry every two months or so.So obviously someone was getting a good meal !
Hope this helps

[JEREMY]

I have mixed Shelldwellers (Neolampr... Brevis) with other Tangs and Malawais with no loss of the Shellies.. put enough shells in and they are fine,,, and even fun to watch,, as they repel the larger fish when they come near...

I have lots of Brevis, some to sell....

Also i have a mixed Front tank with other Tangs and Malawais, all doing well...  Male Front is 8 - 9 inches,, females are around 5 to 6"

Jeremy...