End of CO2 Tank Dump

[leng]

I just wanted to pass on something that I have forgotten to do several times now and that is to watch out for end of CO2 tank dump.  I ended up with lethargic half dead fishes.  If you have cardinal tetras, a good sign is that they will hide when they usually don't hide, and they are gasping with heavy gill action.  An obvious sign are fish that are almost lying belly up at the bottom of the tank and not moving.  It seems obvious but when you don't pay much attention to your tank, you may not notice that something is wrong.  Anyway, get your tank filled before you get into this situation. 

How do you guys deal with end of tank dumps other than remembering to get the CO2 tank refilled before it happens?  Has anyone tried the Ideal 52-1-12 Needle Valve?

[fischkopp]

I think the dump has more to do with the regulator than the needle valve. The regulator should reduce the pressure and keep it constant at a certain adjusted level. If thats not the case than it won't matter which needle valve you use, the bubble rate will always change. I am happily using one from Rex and one from Sumo, both keep the pressure pretty constant even if the tank runs low. They both come with over pressure valves as well.

I use a couple of the Ideal needle valves. They are huge and heavy, but you won't regret getting them. Set and forget, and fine tuning is very easy. Simply the needle valve you can get. I am thinking about switching my set of Fabco for the Ideal ... 

[leng]

That's good to know that the regulator should keep a constant pressure.  I got my regulator from aquariumplants.com a couple of years ago and it never kept the pressure when the tank ran low.  The solenoid also buzzes from time to time.  I think I will go with the Ideal needle valve and maybe get a new regulator that actually works properly.  I want to stop torturing my fish every several months

[OttawaFolkFestivum]

Thanks for posting this leng; good information and thanks for the follow up Robert.

I was wondering why people favored the higher quality regulators because in my experience I have not found adjusting the needle valve to be that much of a PITA. (I am currently using the Milwaukee regulator). This info on tank dump has shed some light on another critical characteristic.

With my system, I have had to refill my CO2 once so far, and did not observe any CO2 dumping.

[blizzack1]

I just wanted to pass on something that I have forgotten to do several times now and that is to watch out for end of CO2 tank dump.  I ended up with lethargic half dead fishes.  If you have cardinal tetras, a good sign is that they will hide when they usually don't hide, and they are gasping with heavy gill action.  An obvious sign are fish that are almost lying belly up at the bottom of the tank and not moving.  It seems obvious but when you don't pay much attention to your tank, you may not notice that something is wrong.  Anyway, get your tank filled before you get into this situation. 

How do you guys deal with end of tank dumps other than remembering to get the CO2 tank refilled before it happens?  Has anyone tried the Ideal 52-1-12 Needle Valve?

There is a good thread here that offers a bit of insight:

http://www.plantedtank.net/forums/equipment/80542-c02-regulators-price-vs-quailty.html

Here are my 2c,

End of tank dump is something folks experience with cheap Inexpensive needle valves. They look like the one in this picture..

End of tank dump is non existent in any quality single stage regulator with quality components. High grade needle valves will eliminate this EOTD.

I think I can speak for Mike here and say that we agree with Orlando. Key word is "quality." Some manufacturers of single stage regulators will actually quantify the pressure increases seen with their regulators as cylinder pressure drops. They are in the fractions of a PSI per hundred pound decrease in cylinder pressure for well built regulators. By no means the "dump" that we've all read about.

We certainly respect the desire of hobbyists to protect their fauna. While we do not doubt the quality and rock-solid construction of the great dual stage regulators out there, in our experience, they aren't really necessary for our application. A well built single stage regulator will not dump, and will only show a truly negligible increase in output pressure at the relatively low input pressure of CO2. Now an end of tank dump from a 3000 psi scuba tank that you're breathing from - well that would be a different story.

I run every single CO2 tank down to empty. Never had an issue

It seems like it is the needle valve that is responsible for this end of tank dump - specifically, inexpensive ones.  That's from Orlando (green leaf aquariums) and Sergio, of Sumo regulator fame.

Interesting thread!

Josh

[leng]

Thanks Josh.  That is good info.  I will try out the Ideal Needle Valve and see what happens the next time the CO2 runs low.

[leng]

Has anyone had any problems with the Clippard solenoid?  I assume that both the Rex and the Sumo regulators use the Clippard solenoid.

[Consigliere]

The high quality needle valves are only required if you have a single stage regulator.  If you have a double stage regulator the needle valve quality is not as critical. 

These are the two ways to avoid the possibility of the dump. 

[fischkopp]

Has anyone had any problems with the Clippard solenoid?  I assume that both the Rex and the Sumo regulators use the Clippard solenoid.

I had no issues with both of them.

[leng]

I ended up getting the ideal needle valve and the clippard solenoid.  I have to say that the fine adjustment on the ideal needle valve is very nice.  We shall see how how it deals with end of tank dumps when the time comes.