Flooding tank drains

[Severum]

I'd like a dead silent tank. The only noise I have at the moment is water travelling through the drain lines. Can I not elimiate this by simply putting a ball value on the drain line and turning it back? I understand there is the risk of a flood if the line gets clogged but how better to get rid of the water noise?

[Hookup]

little help understanding what you currently have running?

Size of lines and quantity?

Materials used?  PVC/ABS/spa flex/tiger flex/clear crap line from hd/etc?

Hard 90* make noise... etc...

photos?

[veron]

if you have the standard overflows or even drilled on back/side DIY drains then valving back is just waiting for a flood. really you have only 2 choices for silence.
#1. smaller return pump so there is less flow and less air being drawn in to your drain lines.
submerge your drain a bit in the sump.

#2. do a HERBIE or BEAN drain style. This consists of using a full siphon on one drain [using a gate valve to adjust] and having a second emergency drain were the drtain is just a tad higher than the waterlevel in the overflow box. With the BEAN style, you have a third drain with just a trickle of water. I have a 125g in the FOR SALE forum that utilizes the siphon method and its DEAD SILENT !!

[Severum]

I have a slant overflow with 1.5" drains made of the flex PVC I got from Hookup (when was over drooling at his tank). The layout is as below. 90 degree elbows at the bulkheads and 45s the rest of the way down.

I suppose I'd be aiming for a Herbie style overflow with a ball value right before drain 2 goes into the basement line. Will this work or do the drains need to be more separated than they are now?

[veron]

drains need to be seperate! one drain emergency flood protecion.
a full siphon drain can handle more water than a regular drain with air.
do not use a ball valve, use a gate valve. trust me. gate valves are more ''precise''

[Hookup]

Geesh Vafa, i forgot our entire conversation when you were over...

The question I have is what does the intake look like?  Is it a durso style or open 1.5" pipe?

It should be durso...

If you are going to add a valve, do so on the one that has most of you flow.  The two inputs need to be off-set, one slightly higher than the other... the lower-one gets the valve and the higher one catches the excess...

I'm also guessing that where your two lines "meet" you are getting most of the noise from the two flows "crashing" into each other... if there is a way to re-do it so both go into the sump independently it should help....

[Severum]

Thanks for the feeback guys!

Both drains are open 1.5" pipe. I can't stick a durso in there because there is not enough clearance from the slant overflow.

The drains are offset with drain 2 lower than drain 1. I could run one completely submerged while running the other partly open, I'll just have to dremel a piece out of a 1.5" cap.

I can attach a gate valve to the end of the drain 2 line, as mentioned before, but i expect that with drain 1 open I may still get water noise coming out from drain 1. Any noise is undesireable.

Running a separate drain 2 line would be a huge undertaking including drilling another hole in the floor and running 20-300 feet of pipe. I'd hope to avoid that.

[veron]

If you cannot run 2 seperate lines then you cannot valve back/create siphon on one line.
you cannot have a siphon with air coming in the other line. as I see it you have 2 lines Y'd together. Your kinda screwed. you can downsize pumps to reduce noise. you can add durso to both but as you said it won't fit.

[veron]

to bad you weren't looking for a tank lol. I have a new 125g with herbie drains and all sitting empty

[Severum]

to bad you weren't looking for a tank lol. I have a new 225g with herbie drains and all sitting empty

I wish. My floor won't hold a larger tank and its placed where I can't add supports.

[veron]

sorry typo, modified last post. its a 125g

[Hookup]

can you snap a photo of the in-tank side of you overflows.  what I understand is they are open pipes... if this is the case, no wonder you're looking for help on making it silent...   

If we could see it, we might have options... but you'll need a durso style... which can be made quite compact if you make it 360* with some reducers...

Thanks for the feeback guys!

Both drains are open 1.5" pipe. I can't stick a durso in there because there is not enough clearance from the slant overflow.

The drains are offset with drain 2 lower than drain 1. I could run one completely submerged while running the other partly open, I'll just have to dremel a piece out of a 1.5" cap.

I can attach a gate valve to the end of the drain 2 line, as mentioned before, but i expect that with drain 1 open I may still get water noise coming out from drain 1. Any noise is undesireable.

Running a separate drain 2 line would be a huge undertaking including drilling another hole in the floor and running 20-300 feet of pipe. I'd hope to avoid that.

[redbelly]

My bulkheads are open and dead silent.
It could be that they are at different levels and so one is creating all the noise or you could just be getting an echo coming up the pipe as they merge into one.

Are you running abs under the floor boards or pvc?
ABS is WAY lowder and the echo can travel up the pipe.

I had been considering building a durson style piece for my slanted overflow but never did as they are so quiet.
I run spa flex under the floor boards and for about another 3 feet and then transition into PVC.

Do you heard water splashing, gurgling or slurping?

[Severum]

My overflows are the same as Pat's, wide open. I have PVC under the floorboards but spa flex ends at about a foot under the stand.

How does one go about creating a 360* durso with reducers? My clearance at best is about 1.5-2" in the slant.

[Contains Moose]

I'd like a dead silent tank. The only noise I have at the moment is water travelling through the drain lines. Can I not elimiate this by simply putting a ball value on the drain line and turning it back? I understand there is the risk of a flood if the line gets clogged but how better to get rid of the water noise?

a few questions


is it a Posiedon PS4,?
how much lower is the sump?
What size is the pump return line?
does the return line come through the floor as well?

[Severum]

Return is a PS4
Sump is in the basement. About 14 feet down, 25 feet across.
return line is 1.5" (use to run a Barracuda) and becomes 1" loc line at the tank.
Return is through the floor too.

[Contains Moose]

I figure you might be getting about 660 to the tank, that isn't enough to start a siphon in your existing system so the noise has to be from it running through the pipes, if you plan carefully and have access you might be able to fish a couple of flexible smaller pipes through the existing 1 1/2 drain and use that to pull a siphon, you could likely get most of the 660 through there at that head height, this would leave enough room for the open channel to be pretty quiet.

Another option would be to re-run the pump return in one inch pipe, and with a little trickery get another pipe through the same hole in the floor.

http://www.marinedepot.com/IMD/pump_poseidon_ps4_chart.jpg

[Severum]

I did some measurements and I do have the room to run another drain line to the basement. I'll go that route if I can be sure the tank will be dead silent and flood proof.

One 1.5" drain is getting me about 1200+ GPH. Instead of smaller flex pipes down the drain (which will be tough) will valving back on one drain be sufficient to create a siphon? If so then I'll set up as follows:

• Main drain (MD) on its own line in 1.5" PVC
• MD wide open or restricted to a smaller opening diameter
• Gate valve right before the MD line enters the sump
• MD line end in the sump water
• Emergency drain (ED) on its own line in 1.5" PVC
• ED with only a trickle of water going down
• ED line above sump water

Am I missing anything that could cause issue?

[redbelly]

Sorry, but I am still unclear on this one.
Why did you have the holes drilled at different levels?
If its plumbed in properly the slanted style of overflow is silent.

You will never get a 1.5" pipe to go full syphon.
Throttling it back will flood the pipe, the idea being that when the pipe is flooded the water does not drop and so doesnt make any noise. I have set several drains up like this before in tanks where they were in bedrooms, and had the 2nd drain pipe fully open and unrestricted for when the first one should get a snail or something in it (and they always do). All of these though were for smaller tank where the water only had to fall 4 feet. With 4 feet of flooded pipe you MUST properly support the pipe or the weight of the water can crack the tank.

Typically this overflow style works best when there is a reasonable difference in height between the flooded drain and the open drain, aka a min of 6 inches. And for these reasons they tend to work best in the box style overflow that goes from the bottom of the tank to the top as opposed to a slanted overflow. With this syle of box, adjusting the gate valve raises and lowers the water level in your overflow box and so you can make it so that the water overflowing into the box drops 4 inches for more turbulence and 1" and is dead silent. Not sure how you can do this in a slanted overflow style, but just flooding the main drain may make it silent anyways.

IMO I would neven consider flooding a pipe all the way down to the basement. You can try putting the ball valve just above the floor level and flooding the pipe behind the tank. You can have the one line flooded and you dont need to have any water going down the other pipe for it to work properly. The other pipe can just be open and act as a backup.
I am interested to see how this works though, I have never put a flooded overflow and an open backup so close together and in a slanted overflow.

[redbelly]

Sorry I didnt directly answer each question..
•MD wide open or restricted to a smaller opening diameter
I have always had them wide open but you can use a strainer if you want to try and reduce snails going down it.
A the strainer get dirty though the water level will rise and you will hear it going down the ED line. This can act as a singnal though that its time to clean the strainer.
Otherwise snails will go down the line, die, sit on the gate valve and cause restriction and thus water goes down the ED line, at which point you open the gate valve to flush them out to the sump.

•Gate valve right before the MD line enters the sump
Possible, but risky as mentioned above.

•ED with only a trickle of water going down
A trickle is not required. You actually dont NEED to have any water going down this line, although it may be required.

•ED line above sump water
MD and ED should be above sump water level