HOB Hell update

[Laura]

I've got a couple of AC 200's on a 15 gallon.  My concern is that  twice over the past 24 hours - once on each filter, the media basket has lifted up, blocking the outake, and dumping 1/3 to 1/2 the tank on the floor!

This fish are fine, although I'm feeling  bad for the person who lives below us  :oops:

The only thing I can think is that the sponge got blocked and the water pressure pushed it up - although it hasn't been that long since I cleaned them - only a week to 10 days.  In both of them I only have one sponge as the media.

Has anyone else experienced the same, and outside of tying down the lid and putting in the sponge narrow-ways instead of lodging it in width ways, I can't think of what else to do.  

Any suggestions?  And are there any error proof filters out there?
Also, has anyone tried the water alarm - Coralife's The Screamer?

[Toss]

there are two notches, one on each side of the basket. you must make sure those notches get in the slot properly. keep the sponge horizontal (width) and fill the basket with media or more sponge to keep the notches in the slot.

good luck

[Julie]

As far as water alarms go, home depot carries one, it used to be about 10$ and it works.

Those are large filters for a 15 gallon, though it shouldn't cause overflowing, do your sponges fit properly?  
I've had them for years and they've never overflowed on me, even when blocked.  Is your tank heavily planted?

Julie

[Iceman]

As far as water alarms go, home depot carries one, it used to be about 10$ and it works.


Julie

Do they shut the power off to the filter? If not, they would be pretty useless if no one is at home.

[Julie]

No they don't, I use it for my sump pump in the basement .


Julie

[Laura]

Thanks folks.
I've run AC's before without a hitch, that's why I was astounded that this happened to both filters in such a short period of time!

Toss - I found the notches - thanks, I never even noticed them before, however have noticed that my filter basket has sometimes risen on the side that's not locked in.  I've put in another sponge and locked in the basket, however am still going with suspenders and belt and have rubber bands holding the lid down.

Julie - I know that it's a lot of filter for the tank, but it's overstocked with small yet piggy fantail goldfish, and they seem to like the extra water movement and improved water quality.

Thanks also for the Home depot water alarm tip - I'll pick one up for each of my tanks.  I agree with Iceman that having an alarm wired in some way to the power would be ideal, but some warning is better than none.

Just on the topic of alarms and filter power - am I wrong to think that even a canister filter isn't foolproof?  Since it runs partially on a siphon, if it started leaking, even with an automatic shut off - would it continue to empty?

[darkdep]

Canisters are closed systems; power failures, for example, will not cause an overflow as without power, both ends of the water connection are in the tank.

NOTHING is foolproof; but I have yet to have a canister problem.

Now, we could invent any sort of scenario related to the tube pulling water FROM the tank...a siphon IS a siphon...

[Julie]

For some reason I think it's the turnover in the tank that is causing the sponges to pop up.  You've got alot of water flow in there, it's a small tank so it must be almost like waves.

Julie
:?:

[BigDaddy]

I was just going to say, even one AC 200 is more than enough for a 15 gallon... two is a lot.

I have noticed that Aquaclear's "new" sponges are much denser than the old design, and tend to cause a lot of overflow/backflow.  I think the reason this is the case is because they want you to stop using just sponges, and start using just a single sponge and some biorings.

The Big Al's blue inserts are much more like the older style sponges... you might want to try them out.

[slickshooter]

Personally I believe unless your fish are plastered against the glass do to the current you can never have to much filtration.

I have 2 AC500's (whatever those are called now) and a Fluval 404 in my 75g  tank. Thats over 1300gph or twice the recomended 10x rule .......not to much as far as I'm concerned.

[Insane79]

Now, we could invent any sort of scenario related to the tube pulling water FROM the tank...a siphon IS a siphon...

Picture my new 120 gallon tank, and me at midnight freaking out with water pumping every where cause the damn hose came out, and the tank is emptying all over the carpet (luckly I hadn't gone to bed, or we'd have had serious problems this morning).  Yes, that was not a dream, but happened last night.  Damn external heaters.

My AC used to do that (although they never over flowed, just poped up) when the sponge was in need of serious cleaning.  Try taking them apart and cleaning them top to bottom.  Otherwise crazy glue (well maybe not crazy glue cause it ain't really fish safe, but find some kind of fish save glue) the dang basket into it.  You can still get the sponge out for cleaning if the basket is glued in!

Good luck!

[Shouganai]

I was told once by a Hagen rep that the tab to balance the AC filters can be turned in such a way so the filter is angled down towards the tank.. so in the even that the sponge gets lifted up, the water will most likely just flow into the tank.  Might want to try that.. when I worked at SP Merivale and Tyler was still there, he made sure all the ACs were set up like that, and they worked just fine.

[henry]

I would try putting a sponge Pre-filter on the intake tube you can rinse at water changes. BA's sell various sponges you can make one out of.

[Julie]

Shouganai- Yes there is a piece on the body of the aquaclear that can be tilted so the water flows back in the tank.

My husband is an expert on aquaclear and we were discussing flooding last night and he said if they are pointed properly towards the tank they shouldn't overflow.
It is kind of like a triangle shape.

Julie

[Laura]

Thanks again - I'm going to try out BA's sponges to see if they work better for me. I looked for the leveller and apart from the level on the motor, my units don't have them - I checked out the product manual for the location of the levels and they just aren't there, neither is the hole to pop them into.  http://www.hagen.com/pdf/aquatic/Aquaclear_English.pdf

I picked up both filters second hand, so perhaps they're an earlier model.  As a solution, I popped a bit of lego under the motor level to increase the angle.  They were quite level previously though, so that wasn't the problem.

I know that it's a lot of filter for a 15 gallon, but it really doesn't seem like too much in the tank.  The water movement surprisingly isn't that strong; I have 6 whiteclouds who don't seem to be contending with a strong current to swim against, but seem to enjoy the water movement.  I had the second filter kicking around the house anyways, so decided to stick it on.

I do like Insane79's suggestion to stick the basket down - I've got some aquarium silicone and will try to glue down the side furthest from the motor.  I'll give the prefilter a shot too.

Cheers,
Laura

[gkilla]

This same thing happened to me a month ago! I had 2/3 of my 30gallon on my floor. Had to go to Home Depot to rent a carpet cleaner! I was soo mad. Next day I went out and got me a Fluval 304 and no floods since. Well worth every penny.

[slickshooter]

Laura,
i think you missunderstood what the good folks were saying.

The little dark grey (on mine) plastic piece to level out or unlevel and tilt forward in this case is located at the VERY BOTTOM  of the Aquaclear on the OUTSIDE. Not near the motor but directly in the middle of the basket and foam holder.

[Laura]

Thanks Slickshooter, but that's where I was looking.  I was unclear at first when folks were mentioning the level as I'd never seen one on my filters, which I why I pulled up the manual - it clearly shows both the level coming off the motor and the level in the location you mentioned.  

Mine just don't have the level in the middle on the bottom.  I assume my second hand ones are just an earlier generation.

I have angled the filters towards the tank with my fancy hi-tech lego shim, but I don't believe this was the prevailing issue as they were perfectly level when they overflowed.  

I was sorry to see that gkilla had the same problem - but relieved that it hadn't only happened to me!!

I'm trying to silicone one basket in place now - we'll see how it works - until then, I'm relying on rubber bands.....

[BigDaddy]

Nope... its because its second hand.

A lot of used filters end up getting sold without the leveling device.  Minis don't even have them if memory serves.

I have a few AC300s that I have to get them for... but they are a special order item.  I find it odd that its no problem to buy a new impellor or a suction tube... but a 50 cent piece of plastic is a special order I have to wait a month to get.

[Laura]

Thanks all for the feedback on this.  In update, I ended up contacting Hagen who advised that their supplier of the foam cartridges changed the product to a denser foam resulting in a rash of similar problems.  

Again, thanks for the feedback - I did end up siliconing in the baskets as I  knew I would always be nervous about it happening again.....